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Cleopaddera
Mon, Sep 14, 2015, 11:42pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Rightful Heir

Here's the whole exchange you partially quoted:

Gowron: Your message said it was urgent. What do you want?
WORF: Your forces are weak, Gowron...you will need help to fight the family of Duras.
GOWRON: From one dishonored Klingon...
WORF: I offer you four Klingon squadrons.
GOWRON: Why would they follow you... a Starfleet officer?
WORF: They are pledged to support... my brother, Kurn.
GOWRON: Kurn is your brother?

And this is where you take it.

The take: Gowron, I can help you put down the Duras but only if you give me what I want.

Worf putting his wants above the needs of the Empire?

See you in a couple of months. Cheerio!
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Cleopaddera
Mon, Sep 14, 2015, 11:31pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Rightful Heir

Robert, My take on script quote No. 1 -

Sorry Worf. I don't have control of this situation and the Duras family is trying to take over the Empire. If I am to remain in office - and live - and deal with this, I can't make any promises to you at this time.

script quote No. 2 -

Oh, first add this to beginning: "Your forces are weak Gowron . . . You will need help to fight the family of Duras."

A lot of honor in that.


Since when is Worf's family honor more important to anyone who is attempting to put down a coup? Why does Picard and Worf think it is of greatest importance? Isn't getting the Duras family under control what takes priority?

Worf's honor versus Gowron's pragmatism is not even comparable. That's romantic thinking. And Worf is not a politician trying to run an empire. He's a Federation officer. You can't compare the two.

I'm not saying that the writers realized that Gowron was in no position to grant anything before Picard placed the cloak-of-office on his shoulders, but in reality he had no official power.

And I wasn't commenting on the Worf's "committment to honor" versus Gowron's pragmatism. You can't compare the two. I don't deny Gowron's political nature. I'm just saying Worf's asking for this honor at this time did not make sense, and because Gowron didn't grant it until after he became Chancellor does make him mean to Worf.
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Cleopaddera
Thu, Apr 30, 2015, 9:29pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Rightful Heir

Hey William B,

I don't get how people keep saying Gowron wouldn't give Worf back his honor. Gowron wasn't even Chancellor when Worf asked him to do it. How can he give back something when he doesn't have the authority to do so? When he finally became Chancellor the first thing he did, in the very same scene, is give Worf and Kurn back their names.

Cheers
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Cleopaddera
Sat, Jan 31, 2015, 11:04am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Rightful Heir

Could people please provide examples of Gowron acting like a jerk, being dishonorable (before Tacking into the Wind), complete bastard, etc. I have been watching Netflix this past month (medical issues) and I just don't see it.

Everyone points to his rewriting history as an example of corruption. It was a matter of survival. No leader of any country is going to state that a foreign power was responsible for their rise. That's insane, and a death wish.

I sometimes wonder if Gowron functioning as Worf's shadow hasn't set him up to be the depository of negative projection from the audience also, and not just Worf.

And no, Gowron would not intentionally start losing any war to eliminate a rival. I think one problem I carry is that I played Star Trek: Klingon where you get to know Gowron better than you do just watching the shows. Since this storyline was created by the same folks to create the show, I was of the impression that it was canon (Events occurred after Way of the Warrior). So, I was quite shocked by events in When it Rains and Tacking. The fact that there was no lead up to him going insane, and that appears to be what happened, it feels highly contrived. The fact that Worf kills his Shadow is bad news for Worf. He will remain fractured the rest of his life.

I didn't care for these events at the time they first aired but watching episode right after episode really makes it clear that whatever happened to Gowron, it happened off screen. Foul!

Also, Gowron did not kill K'Mpec. It is obvious from the show and script and Ron Moore said he didn't. I do agree that he is insecure. He was never able to build enough support. I can't help but to wonder if he ever stopped to think about the "few rewards and no glory" that the chancellorship offered.

In Rightful Heir, I was astonished with Worf's demanding attitude that things will be his way or there will be another Klingon Civil War.
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