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Booming
Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 8:48am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Doctor Bashir, I Presume

When I mean empathy I mean "they don't mirror your feelings as you feel them". I'm not a psychiatrist and it is quite far from my area of expertise (political extremism, state behavior). I guess you looked it up. I always wondered how psychos can manipulate other people if they lack the understanding of other peoples emotions. Your explanation solves that. Thanks.
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Booming
Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 6:45am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Doctor Bashir, I Presume

yikes, I should really check for mistakes...
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Booming
Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 6:44am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Doctor Bashir, I Presume

@Sigh2000
"@Booming: the power and psychopathy link is interesting. Is empathy lost as power increases?"
Psychopath don't feel empathy. People with psychopathic tendencies have a empathy towards some but can completely block it out towards others. So the reason that in positions of power (also surgeons for example) have far higher percentages than the average population is explained by two things. First, having no empathy ergo being able to use people without remorse makes it easier to succeed, especially in business and to a later degree politics. Second, self selection. Psychopath often seek high stress environments basically for kicks and they like to be admired/control people.
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Booming
Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 2:56am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S2: Cardassians

According to memory alpha the Cardassians are similar to the late stage soviet union with some German influences aka Prussia and Nazis.

China is quite different from the Cardies. In the 90s western analysts were convinced that soon, very soon China would collapse but that didn't happen. Now everybody is convinced that we will all speak Mandarin soon. Also the WTO, while being a popular talking point in right and left wing circles, is far less influential then many believe. China's ascendancy started with the reforms of Deng Xiaoping as did GDP growth. All the problematic behavior was also there all the time but the USA didn't consider them a rival so they weren't vilified in the media. Apart from Tibet they were mostly ignored. The whole WTO narrative stems from the right wing animosity towards global institutions (for the left the reasons are different) and as an easy explanation why China is successful.
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Booming
Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 5:10pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Doctor Bashir, I Presume

Narcissism combined with psychopathic tendencies maybe. My point was more about the fact that in positions of power the amount of psychopath is often several times higher. No empathy is big bonus on your way to the top but psychopathy often comes with strong self destructive leanings. If you have super humans then around 1 in 6 has the potential to become a megalomaniac.
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Booming
Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 1:09pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: For the Uniform

@ Peter
An even better solution would have been to catch several of Eddingtons family and then threaten to cut off body parts and then you cut off things like finger until Eddington gives up. That would cause far less harm then wiping out entire colonies. Bonus, with modern technology you can probably sow everything back on. :)

And in general states should avoid getting into a tit for tat with terrorists because that is just state terrorism and that always causes even more terror. What makes this episode even worse. It doesn't portray terrorism in a realistic way. In reality Sisko would have created hundreds of new Eddingtons.

For some reason your post made me think of this. ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REWeBzGuzCc&ab_channel=CNN
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Booming
Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 12:51pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Doctor Bashir, I Presume

Just keep in mind that around 2% are Psychopath/Sociopath and 15% have psychopathic tendencies. Now combine that with mega intelligence and you have khan.
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Booming
Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 12:50pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S5: Latent Image

@Mal
To me it was implied that the doc wasn't sure if he chose because of the personal relationship. Does that make sense for a computer. I'm not sure but it certainly makes for some interesting character drama.
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Booming
Sat, Apr 17, 2021, 4:54pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S5: Latent Image

"I assume the Doctor Mark I was never given triage procedures. It doesn't seem to ever be mentioned other than maybe Janeway saying he did his duty."
I think it was. The problem was that he had two patients who had the same chance of survival and he chose the one he was friends with. It is a classic ethical dilemma. I would assume that they didn't plan for the EMH to form friendships, otherwise RNG would have decided, I think.
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Booming
Fri, Apr 16, 2021, 10:19am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: For the Uniform

" Next you'll claim Colonel Quaritch from Avatar was lying when he said the gas grenades would be "humane"."

I don't know, that guy has just a face I can trust. He will probably get it done with minimal casualties. Look at that smile.
https://www.metro.us/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/stephen-lang-avatar.jpg
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Booming
Fri, Apr 16, 2021, 1:05am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: For the Uniform

@Nolan

I never said that it was genocide. But it is certainly forced displacement. Ethnic cleansing comes to mind. Sisko literally threatens to destroy every Human colony in the region with C weapons specifically for Humans.

to A) Could the colonists all be hot, muscular 30 something pioneers? Hopefully. I'm picturing it right now.

I was under the assumption though that many of these people are refugees. If they they weren't before, they sure are now. At least they can now live on the former Cardassian planets which shouldn't be a problem. Cardassians and Humans are basically identical.

to B) Let's just hope that there is none of those TNG caves where transporters cannot reach a few nature hikers. :)

Plus, next time a successful terrorist bothers the Cardassians they have more than enough justification to do whatever they want.
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Booming
Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 5:06pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: For the Uniform

But to not always be contrarian. If you ignore the problematic aspects and just watch it as a sci fi episode then it is not a bad one.
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Booming
Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 9:27am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: For the Uniform

The whole nobody died thing is pretty stupid. If you have a colony with a few thousand people, even if we assume that they for some reason had enough transports and institutions that could organize a complete evacuation in 5 minutes, then a few people will still die. Old people getting heart attacks, children getting lost/left behind.

"Especially that the bridge crew gave no pushback to crazy orders."
awful, dumb, disrespectful to the characters and audience. You name it. For some time there were these stipulations from Roddenberry what was allowed and what wasn't and they followed that pretty narrowly in TNG. With DS9 they started to deviate from it. Numbers weren't that good so they started to mess around.
I picture the first day of writing of this episode like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCLynwl0kvk


It's all fine and well to have flawed characters, probably better than walking saints. Sisko was never portrayed as flawless but it is one thing to have a temper or a horrific obsession with baseballs and another to gas planets. That is not flawed, that is psychotic.
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Booming
Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 2:59am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: For the Uniform

And as being someone who was actually in the military I find it very disturbing that everybody on the bridge just went along with it. Every modern military has mandatory courses about unlawful orders and dropping C-weapons on civilians, one would hope, is illegal in the Federation.
If my commanding officer would have ordered me to shoot a gas grenade at a village because he is so mad about the local resistance leader, I would have said:" Sure thing, sir. Give me just a sec." and then started running, shouting:"The captain has gone crazy! CRAZY!!!"
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Booming
Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 12:55am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: For the Uniform

Ok, let's not confuse things here. Epaminondas developed a new battle formation, the"oblique order" to beat the unbeatable Spartan army (with 300 gays, the sacred band), he didn't drop gas on innocent. If you want an example, then there are far more recent ones, Bashar al Assad and Saddam Hussein. I guess they handwave any real damage away, nobody was hurt, if having to flee with little warning and losing your home and all is not considered hurtful. And what would have happened if Eddington had not given up?! Sisko becoming the worst war criminal since WW3? That the Federation condones chemical warfare against civilians, which is forbidden by the Geneva convention even today, is another deeply disturbing thought. Are we sure that the writers were not from the mirror universe?

He's a war criminal *shock*?
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Booming
Wed, Apr 14, 2021, 9:20am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: For the Uniform

Not counting NuTrek, this is actually my least favorite episode of Star Trek. Sisko should be in jail for the rest of his life. There are a few episodes that I dislike but this I really hate. For me it signifies the beginning of the end of Star Trek. When the writers started to treat Star Trek as a hollow brand name they could play around with.
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Booming
Wed, Apr 14, 2021, 5:40am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: The Masterpiece Society

whoops, I meant the sister of the Gorgons ( who were probably perverts nonetheless), the Graeae.
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Booming
Wed, Apr 14, 2021, 5:36am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: The Masterpiece Society

I think for Lwaxana it is intersectional. She is not only a women, she is also old. Society expects old people to be nice porch dwellers who play Canasta all day. But you are right. Female lust is often portrayed as bad or threatening in classic literature with long lasting influences. The trope of the lusty old women is also well established since ancient times, most famous in the Gorgons.
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Booming
Wed, Apr 14, 2021, 1:24am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: For the Uniform

yeah, I also always thought that the one aspect the Federation is missing is chemical warfare against civilians.
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Booming
Wed, Apr 14, 2021, 1:03am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

Hahaha :D
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Booming
Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 10:45am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: That Hope Is You, Part 2

I think so. This nonsense has to end at some point and it is going on for a long time now. Ironman 1 came out in 2008 aka the start of phase 1. There will always be some super hero movies. They are after all the deep longing of society for a dictator/strongman often combined with a power fantasy.

"What era are we in now?"
Right now for the first time in 100 years we are in no era. I guess we will have to wait until Corona is really over. Who the hell knows in what mood the world will be after this or what new behaviors this has created. Maybe we will see more movies with people you can actually relate to, maybe even try to become. super heroes by their very nature are unrelatable. You cannot become Toni Stark, you cannot become Superman.
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Booming
Mon, Apr 12, 2021, 4:44am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: That Hope Is You, Part 2

Well, if there is no threat to the entire galaxy then why should the audience be excited?! So much of this stuff looks like the bad legacy of the super hero movie era.

The Burnham thing at this point feels like a liberal version of a right wing trope. The uber special hero who comes in to solve all problems (with violence). She is basically Clint Eastwood. But what made Eastwood to some degree relatable was that the problems his characters encountered were small scale, he was forced into it and nobody else was around/lawlessness (only true for the western; in modern settings the state had to be incompetent and corrupt so that the excessive violence could be portrayed as necessary). The Mandalorian is a good example for a modernized version of this formula.
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Booming
Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 12:01pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: The Outcast

Thanks for clarifying. I had read about the chinese system a little but only after this I actually googled it and saw that, as you mentioned, it comes up first.

"Because it is in no conceivable way a credible example of a "social credit system"."
Yeah, I see your point. I perceive these societal systems in a more general way because of my social science perspective and excluding one minority because of gender identity seemed to be a nice connection to the episode. In the sense that a society punished people for non-conformance. As I said, I didn't immediately understand that Mal's comment was specifically aimed at China.
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Booming
Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 9:52am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: The Outcast

A difference of definition then. In social science these word often have different meanings. If social credit system is the specific name for a centralized point system, then my examples are a little off. Yes, the Chinese system is certainly an interesting step towards 1984 but I just wanted to mention that there are numerous system which encourage or discourage behavior and I wasn't sure that Mal was specifically referring to the Chinese example. China is certainly taking it to the next horrifying level. Even though there are arguments that this is all a little hysterical. No matter how it will finally will turn out. Such a system certainly screams abuse.

"The trans ban is a silly example."
Could you elaborate?
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Booming
Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 2:31am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: The Outcast

1. Electro shock therapy is still widely used and fairly effective.
2. Every society already has informal and formal social credit systems. The legal system is the most obvious. If you are a smoker or overweight you pay more for insurance. If you spend time and money on education you will get a title that enables you to get a better jobs. Very recent example that has somewhat of a connection to the episode was the Trans ban in the military. Under the Trump government many transsexuals were fired or banned from entering the military. So hiding your transsexual identity was rewarded, while showing it was punished. and so on and so on.
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