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Booming
Fri, Jan 18, 2019, 7:04am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Brother

Ok if nobody will say it I will: Go Go Power Rangers!
"Guys we have to gown down to that asteroid. Here are your new shiny space suits."
Does the Discovery have it's own uniform style or does the Enterprise? That confused me a little. Blue or like in TOS.
And because everbody gives it a star rating.
I'm giving it 7 out of 11 stars. Or maybe 9 out of 15.
I think that was an ok beginning.
Oh and is every room a holodeck now??
I am very worried how this whole angel thingy will turn out.
@midshipman: I saw the actress once in a community episode as a bartender.

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Booming
Thu, Jan 17, 2019, 1:21pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: General Discussion

@ Weiss: Maybe I misunderstand your argument but what you are saying is that you don't care about discovery but care about people disliking it and writing that down?
And thanks for making me look up if MTV still exists. It does! Who knew?!
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Booming
Thu, Jan 17, 2019, 8:44am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: General Discussion

Ok, it may sound strange but I really want to see season 2. I didn't like the first season for the most part and thought the last episode was terrible. Every time I think about it new stuff comes up. Just think about it. The Vulcans and the Federation wanted to destroy Qo'nos. Genocide is already pretty bad but when the crew was down on the planet there were a lot of non-Klingons on the planet. They would be killed to. A huge number of foreign dignitaries. It would have probably started three new wars. The Federation had to have some kind of statement. What would that have been like: WE ARE THE FEDERATION. If you attack us, we will murder you all!
But again. I really want to see how this continues. My expectations are so low it is basically impossible to disappoint me.
I guess that's me at this point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2oVCpxqquo
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Booming
Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 4:27am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: Home

@Omicron you called his opinion ridiculous and what he does "hate watching" which isn't really that nice. That is not discussing but judging.
Other words used to humiliate him during the last 20 posts: catty, nefarious, laughing about him, sock puppet, annoying, threadshifting, obnoxious.
So obviously he is not more than welcome to voice his opinion. Considering what you and others wrote he isn't welcome at all.
It sounds like some want a safe space where real dissent isn't allowed.
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Booming
Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 1:44am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: Home

Guys could you cool it a little?! He has the right to be here and he can post (within reason) whatever he wants. Debate him or ignore him but these insulting comments and the need to shut down his opposing opinion is something you don't have the right to.
I for example find it really weird and a little disrespectful that people post their own reviews and star ratings on a reviews side of somebody else. But do I feel the need to tell you that over and over again. No.
Wouldn't it be far more fun when the ardent fans of the Orville see a comment like his and smile a little and then the back and forth begins. In a respectful way. One might even say in a trekkian way...
Or to quote the Dude: Hey man, that's just like... your opinion.
And that is true for both sides.
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Booming
Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 3:18am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: Home

@ Tempeh: Could you provide a link? I love me some gossip. :)
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Booming
Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 1:33am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: Primal Urges

Thanks. I will look into it.
My critique was more aimed at you disagreeing with my characterization and I don't think that I gave one. The only personal opinion I gave was that I think that it should be done when you are old enough to choose. The rest was basically quoting numbers.
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Booming
Wed, Jan 9, 2019, 11:26am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: Primal Urges

Omicron: Discovery optimistic... I always imagine that Discovery is how Star Trek in hell would look like. It is just there to make us all miserable. Thanks Satan!!
The best we can hope for is that they ease up on the dark tone a little and give us more straightforward Star Wars Trek. And don't forget SPOCK!!! This is all so desperate.
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Booming
Wed, Jan 9, 2019, 3:49am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: Primal Urges

@ SlackerInc: I find it odd that you write that I'm wrong in your opinion and then declare the discussion to be over without providing any argument. Why do you feel the need to point out your difference of opinion when you have no interest in providing one. And in what way could I possibly " characterize male circumcision wrongly" Do you lack a logical argument? Is your argument based on emotions? And this is not off-topic because it was in important in two episodes all ready and will probably be important in other episodes.

@Darren: Yes, civility seems to be dwindling concept. So thank you for you honest approach to a difficult subject.

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Booming
Tue, Jan 8, 2019, 5:12am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: Primal Urges

@ Darren: As I said I think that one should be at least old enough to make a somewhat informed decision but this is a religious matter. That's why I mentioned another ritual (baptizing) that can have far worse effects. And I must also criticize your new example (murder, mugging). In the US more than 50% of men are circumcised and there are certainly some who don't like it and some who do but I can guarantee you that we will not find anybody who would say: "I was mugged yesterday and I really liked it." A mugging is always bad, a circumcision not necessarily. And while mugging is a crime, circumcision is not.
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Booming
Mon, Jan 7, 2019, 3:30am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: Primal Urges

There is quite a bit to unpack here so let's get to it, then.
@ Trent: misogyny is also aimed an transwomen. The concept is called intersectionality which means that a cis woman has to deal with misogyny and a trans woman has to deal with misogyny and transphobia (and maybe even with racism if they are black for example) and I'm not sure that I agree that the episode was "more" about gender based discrimination and less about gender reassignment surgery. The whole problem of the episode is about effects of that specific surgery. The misogyny is the cultural framework. But this is probably more a question of viewpoint. And there is no real right or wrong here. The rest of what you write seems ok to me even though I want to state again that I have a problem specifically with Macfarlane because of his comments about the subject. His comments are obviously transphobic. Not in a "I want to gas all those degenerates." kind of way and more like:" Trannies are icky."

@ Omicron: Your stance on political correctness is clear at this point and I don't understand why you feel the need to point out repeatedly that you are different. Everybody deviates from the cultural norm in some way. And I'm sure that nobody here would condemn you for whatever makes you different and if a few do then you know how for example transpeople feel all the time but you'd have to change a few people with half of society.
And I fail to see the connection with me pointing out Macfarlanes transphobic comments and therefore finding it problematic that he makes an episode which can be condensed to: "Gender reassignment surgery is bad." and political correctness. If somebody made antisemitic comments in the past shouldn't we be concerned when this person makes a show or whatever about Jewish issues. And as Trent rightly points out in none of these two episodes it is mentioned that in most cases gender reassignment surgery is a good and necessary procedure. The procedure is just presented as bad and hurtful.
@ Darren: While I personally think that boys shouldn't be forced to have circumcision that is a religious issue. Think about baptism for example. Quite a few babies die because of it (bacteria in the water, suffocation because of swallowed water, neck injuries) but try telling Christians that they aren't allowed to do it anymore. There would probably be civil war. And here we are not talking about foreskin but dead babies. And I also find it questionable to compare circumcision to female genital mutilation. While the removal of a basically unnecessary part of the penis could be a childhood trauma and of course these operations going wrong can leave the boy actually mutilated but that is in now way comparable to the willful removal of the clitoris and sowing shut the vagina because of the need to control women.
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Booming
Sun, Jan 6, 2019, 7:54am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: Primal Urges

@wolfstar: All good points. But I think trans issues are right now more amplified and when people hear surgery to change the gender of someone most will probably think:" ah like with transpeople. " There is also no real issue when it comes to genital mutilation in the West at least. We are against it. And Intersexpeople are people without clear sexual organs at birth. But you are right for quite some time in medicine the saying was: "It is easier to dig a hole than to build a tower." Which gave quite a few men female genitalia which then lead to gender dysphoria. But I want to add one thing. It is a common narrative in right wing circles that a part of post op transpeople are unhappy with their decision. With the aim to discredit the practice in general while ignoring the actual reasons people are unhappy post op. For informed people like you this shows a problem with intersex people but for a lot of less informed people it could easily boil down to: "Gender reassignment surgery is bad."
And I want to end it with a clarification. I do not think that a white heterosexual cis man shouldn't write about trans issues. Perfectly fine. It is different when this person has made openly transphobic statements and cultural products without even realizing that they are transphobic. It was a common trope in 90s movies to show people puke when they found out that they had sex with a trans woman or saw one( this is always aimed at trans women), for example Ace Ventura, Naked Gun.
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Booming
Sat, Jan 5, 2019, 3:08pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: Primal Urges

@ Omicron: Straw man argument and whataboutism crammed into one sentence. Because transphobia is nothing serious. With the military ban, "we don't serve trannys" bills and the attempt of the current government trying to change the laws in a way that legally eradicates transpeople. Yeah, this is all happening right now and totally comparable to whatever Roddenberry did.
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Booming
Sat, Jan 5, 2019, 3:23am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: Primal Urges

And Macfarlanes peculiar interest in trans issues continues. He ones said that if he had Sex with a Transwoman he would puke "the same way that a gay guy looks at a vagina and goes, 'Oh, my God, that's disgusting." Apart from the fact that "gay guys" don't find female genitalia disgusting, I have serious doubts that such a guy should handle stuff like gender reassignment surgery and the problems that come with it.
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Booming
Fri, Jan 4, 2019, 3:15am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: Ja'loja

@ Dougie A valid point. Knowing that every lie can be disproven would certainly have an impact but I think it is also important that humanity in Star Trek lived in abundance for two hundred years. And people who are poor and from rural areas are the most intolerant(basically culturally universal). If you are poor you have a problem with people who differ from the societal norm because of feelings of inferiority towards your peers and you elevate your status by humiliating the not-normal(very simply put) and rural leads to intolerance because of lack of exposure. If the only black skinned persons you know are from crime shows or the news about "shithole" countries then that leads to the believe that these people must be fundamentally different which in this context means worse. In Star Trek there are no poor and exposure should be relatively positive and frequent.
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Booming
Thu, Jan 3, 2019, 6:30am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: Ja'loja

@SlackerInc: Comparing Black Mirror to Orville?!! I fainted for a moment. Comparing Black Mirror, a superbly written show that is about a bleak view of our present and future with the Macfarlane vanity and frat humor project is almost heresy! And why is it real?? I guess Paris Hiltons "A Simple Life" was also meta because she is a rich ding-dong who does stupid stuff.

@ Thomas: Sure because nobody had problems with the ladies *cough* Gordi *cough*
or with parenting like Worf ohhh
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Booming
Thu, Jan 3, 2019, 2:55am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: Ja'loja

@Trent Thanks for the youtube clip. Nice to see that Macfarlanes acting hasn't improved :). I think the reason that the show is doing ok (It dropped from above 9m to 6 m viewers which is ok, I guess) is that it is very much like a 90s show. And Nostalgia is still pretty big right now. People can just sit back and revel in cherished memories while watching kind of Star Trek with pee humor. So I think you are right about people wanting something new but it is also about getting older. People who liked the show are probably in their 40s now which is a difficult time in life. The body slowly starts to fall apart and life grinds away at you. In light of this Macfarlanes time capsule makes sense. That is probably the reason why people defend it so ferociously. It is all about feeling young and not wanting to die. That could also be the reason why so many despise Discovery so much. It just doesn't give you the feeling you had when you where 17. Not that there aren't legitimate reasons to dislike Discovery. The rest of what you said seems to describe it quite well.
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Booming
Wed, Jan 2, 2019, 5:10pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: Ja'loja

@ Trent: If Macfarlane really cared about show he would have taken a far less important role and not the lead. I wouldn't even call him an actor maybe in a sense that because everybody can sing everybody is a singer. But most are pretty bad.
It is a rich kid fantasy. At this point he should have a few hundred million and can afford to make his own show how he wants it with him as Star Trek captain.
Let us just hope that this doesn't start the super rich vanity genre. Just think about all the super rich out there planning something like that.
Sure there was Ted Turner but he at least didn't star as the lead in his stuff.
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Booming
Tue, Jan 1, 2019, 8:20am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: Ja'loja

joknny: aweful rep ;) Or are you insinuating that I teach universities aweful rap?
But your line of reasoning is also questionable. Pointing out unstable behavior is in no way disrespectful towards people with Neurosis or other mental issues.
And why would you defend Dave? If he has no Neurosis then he is just not very well behaved.
But back to the Orville: What one considers thought provoking is of course subjective. A five year old might find lots of things thought provoking. But for me the Orville is mostly adapted ideas, adapted in a silly way.
Seth Macfarlane thought process: What? Spock needed to go home every now and then to have sex or go insane?! Well, how about somebody who needs to go home to pee. thihihi. Seth Macfarlane you are a genius!
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Booming
Wed, Dec 19, 2018, 9:49am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: General Discussion

I think it is also misleading to always look at the big names. It is a big team and there are often changes that aren't obvious to the outside.
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Booming
Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 2:25pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: General Discussion

For me the enthusiasm lessened with Voyager. It was the first show I didn't watch till the end. Enterprise took what I didn't like about Voyager and kind of made it worse. In TNG and DS9 I cared about the characters. VOY and Enterprise I didn't.
In DS9 almost anybody had an arc. Sisko emotionally devastated widower to confident emissary. Kira battle hardened, traumatized unable to trust outsiders to compassionate fighter for the freedom of her former enemies. And so on. TNG was a little weaker on that front but most characters were engaging. Everybody hated that Risa-Worf episode in DS9 which I actually liked because it gave us the deepest insight into why Worf is such a strange fellow. I hated the episode were Sisko gassed a planet to get Eddington . Sisko should be in Jail or killed by marquis assassins. Sure there is the gender bender trannies are silly episode with Quark which is terrible but the let's gas planets to get a rebel leader still makes me cringe.
So DS9 and TNG gave me the whole emotional spectrum because I cared about these shows. The only hate I felt for VOY was for 7 of 9 probably even more than Kate Mulgrew because it was so obvious why they brought her on. Apart from that there were a few things I liked but it just didn't move me and it was even worse with Enterprise. Here they included the model/sex bomb from the beginning. And I cared even less. it was after 9/11 and every cultural product from the US was already seen trough that lens. Go jingo! In hindsight I'm not sure that there was actually that much triumphalism and american machismo.
Until the last episode I would say that DIS was a little more engaging than VOY but not necessarily in a good way. I didn't like the looks of the Klingons and the way they sounded. I also wasn't a fan of the general art style. Everything was so dark. I only cared about Saru and Rapp's character. Saru because he was the most trekkian character and Rapp grew on me in the whole time loop episode but maybe it is because he is gay(in real life). Could be.
And then came the last episode which I found very bad. Terrible almost. Apart from the fact that the Federation wanted to genocide their way out of a war but the rushed writing style really threw me off even though a few jokes worked for me and I liked the glimpses of Kronos we got.
Where does that leave me. TNG and DS9 were important parts of my life but life has to go on. I will always remember them fondly. Maybe DIS will get better. That would be a nice bonus or maybe not then that wouldn't diminish what TNG and DS9 meant for me. It gave me hope for a better world while sitting in a small rural town in northern Germany thinking that everybody would hate me if they actually knew me.
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Booming
Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 9:20am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: General Discussion

Thanks for clarifying Mertov. ;)
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Booming
Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 8:52am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: General Discussion

dooooh!
Live long and prosper. :)
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Booming
Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 8:51am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: General Discussion

Sorry Jammer, This is your forum. It was not my intention to cause you discomfort.
Life long and prosper!
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Booming
Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 1:57pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: General Discussion

@PatrickD: So you were raped and nevertheless use that word in such a trivial way?! You do realize why these kinds of metaphors are used and still use them?!
Why?
I am to part of the LGBT community and grew up in a rural area which wasn't great to say the least.
And that brings me to Omicron. What a great way to defend anal rape metaphors. First they took our anal rape metaphors and I said nothing. But not you my friend. No, you will fight for your right to never grow, to never learn and to use what ever despicable language you might fancy.
And when you whine about political correctness what you are actually saying is: Please do not point out something that could make me feel uncomfortable. So it is actually you who wants other people to shut up. Especially homosexuals and transsexuals who get beaten and killed to this very day.
So thank you for telling people to stop pointing out the inherent intolerance towards minorities that is still a very important part of the societies we life in.

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