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Bold Helmsman
Tue, Feb 19, 2019, 12:42am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Saints of Imperfection

@John Harmon
Like Jammer mentioned, Section 31 isn't as secret as its made it out to be, even in DS9. It literally could not operate without the higher ranking people knowing about it. Those people simply pretend not to know about them, while accepting what they do, as Odo points out once.
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Bold Helmsman
Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 11:36pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Saints of Imperfection

@OmnicronThetaDeltaPhi
Considering how those same fans react to anything to dares to be different than TNG, I honestly can't blame the powers that be for not taking them at their words

@Gil
No need to put all the blame for Section 31 on DS9 or Behr.

TNG has its fair share of blame as well. When the Federation has enemies like the Romulans and the Cardassians around, something like Section 31 begins to sound more and more likely.

You can say people are pushing their perception onto Trek, but if anything history is the one doing that. The more people learned about the nasty underbelly of modern geopolitics, as they started to in the 80's, the more unrealistic the perfect, squeaky clean nature of the Federation starts to seem.

@Peter G.
Maybe I'm biased, but I really can't compare anything Discovery has done, to what Lost did.
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Bold Helmsman
Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 10:23pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Saints of Imperfection

@OmnicronThetaDeltaPhi
You know, I've often thought the reason Star Trek has not advanced forward was because of the negative reactions they feared getting from fans.

@Dave in MN
Speak for yourself, I see all those things in Discovery.
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Bold Helmsman
Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 9:39pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Saints of Imperfection

@Peter. G
Why are you bringing up Lost? There are no long running JJ style mystery boxes here?

@OmnicronThetaDeltaPhi
If anything, the reason they choose this period of time to set Discovery, is probably to appeal to casual fans.
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Bold Helmsman
Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 9:30pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Saints of Imperfection

@Dave in MN

If you feel that Trek is something that should be made only for chosen fans to enjoy... I recommend you you stick to fanfiction or something. Here in reality, Trek will continue to be made for everyone, even the unwashed masses of casual fans.

As for what Gene Roddenberry would have thought, I'm quite sure he'd have hated DS9, the series that made me a Trekkie and my favorite, so I could weather his displeasure quite cheerfully.
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Bold Helmsman
Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 7:40pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Saints of Imperfection

@Dave in MN

The reason no one has tried stopping ME is likely because it's not worth it, and would only give the guy publicity.

As for the stuff you mentioned about Discovery, they likely changed the Klingons because they thought the originals looked too human (a criticism I've heard before on aliens in Trek), the Spore Drive is technobabble like every Trek has had, like TNG's holodecks or DS9's magic wormhole, the ship redesigns are because they have better technology to do it now, the serialized storytelling is because everything on TV is serialized now, Burnham being Spock's sister is to appeal to normal fans who know nothing about Trek except hearing Spock's name, supernova being visible is visual shorthand for the audience, as is the vacuum thing.

There's no conspiracy, they're simply trying to make a show that appeals to everyone, not just hardcore fans. Trek was never meant to be a walled garden only for the chosen, it's for everybody, even people whose only experience was the JJ movies.
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Bold Helmsman
Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 11:54am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Saints of Imperfection

Being out of the loop is not merely a matter of distance and frequency of communication. DS9 was not relevant to the main political hub of the Federation. Information on sensitive matters would not necessarily flow freely to them on sensitive matters.
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Bold Helmsman
Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 11:00am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Saints of Imperfection

@OmnicronThetaDelta
Section 31 was never completely a secret, even in DS9. It literally could not operate that way. People knew about it, they just pretended not to.
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Bold Helmsman
Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 8:11am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Saints of Imperfection

Section 31 was not created by Discovery but many people in the comments section here, I realized, would like to pretend that it never existed in the first place and would much prefer for Discovery to do the same.

I'm reminded of one of my favorite quotes by Benjamin Sisko, that it's easy to be a saint when you live in Paradise.

In order to preserve the vision of the Federation as an idyllic paradise it would be easier to pretend that nasty black spots like Section 31 never existed.

It's entirely natural, people in America have been doing the same thing for years, touting the American Dream while ignoring all of the problems behind it.

It's disingenuous to act as if Star Trek Discovery is somehow a vehicle for right-wing propaganda because it's discussing something that was already part of the canon.

This isn't the 1980s. It's frankly preposterous to talk about creating Paradise without dealing of all the nasty things under the hood.

It's not always easy, the people you disagree with aren't always going to be caricatures that are easy to hate, even people like Section 31, but dealing with that by looking it straight in the eye that's how you really move forward.

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Bold Helmsman
Fri, Jan 25, 2019, 3:03pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: New Eden

@Dave in MN

Since when has the Prime Directive ever been consistently applied in Trek? Ever? And I certainly haven't seen anything from these characters that have sunk to the depths Harry Kim plumbed (and this is coming from someone that actually doesn't hate the guy)

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