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Bob (a different one)
Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 8:13pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: That Hope Is You, Part 2

They're bringing Janeway back, too:

Executive Producer Alex Kurtzman said, “Captain Janeway was held to a different standard than her predecessors. She was asked to embody an inhuman level of perfection in order to be accepted as ‘good enough’ by the doubters, but showed them all what it means to be truly outstanding. We can think of no better captain to inspire the next generation of dreamers on Nickelodeon, than she.”
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Bob (a different one)
Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 7:45pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: That Hope Is You, Part 2

"This show is doomed!"


i know almost nothing about the show, but after browsing online for a while it looks like a lot of Trek fans are very excited about it. This is a show that is going to be aimed at kids so maybe Trek parents are excited about watching the show with their children, but my impression is that their is just a large section of the base that automatically LOVES anything that bears the Star Trek name.


I really don't understand the Trek fan base. But then again, I don't like comic book movies either so maybe I'm just out of step with our current culture.
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Bob (a different one)
Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 7:02pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S5: Redemption, Part II

The Worf/Klingon plot is fantastic.

The Data plot is ok. It's very reminiscent of Geordi's story in Arsenal of Freedom and it suffers from some of the same problems. Mainly that the antagonist is a little too over the top. This plot was rehashed too many times during the series' run; almost everyone gets a turn in the captain's seat.

The Sela plot is not good. Any random Romulan character would have worked better in her place. Two main complaints:

1) The writers wasted valuable time having to explain her origin. At least three scenes were devoted to doing this. That time could have been better used bracing up the Data plot.

2) As William pointed out above, Sela's existence undermines one of the show's best episodes, Yesterday's Enterprise. Here's a portion of William's comment:

"Rather depressingly (or amusingly, depending on your mood), after "Yesterday's Enterprise" gave Tasha a meaningful death after her pointless death in "Skin of Evil," we find out that alternate-Tasha *actually* was executed by Romulans for trying to escape from being a consort. The weird, almost sickening tragedy is that Yar, who apparently ran around away from rape gangs and whose first "centric" episode was about her nearly being "forced into marriage" in exchange for a vaccine ended up trading her body for other people's lives, and then was killed when she tried to leave. "


One step forward, two steps back. They should have just buried her under some makeup and let her play a totally different character.


Still a good episode despite my nitpicks.
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Bob (a different one)
Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 3:47pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S2: Tuvix

This is one of my least favorite Trek episodes. I disagree strongly with the moral of a lot of the "ethical debate" centered episodes of Berman era Trek.

Ethical debates are fun, but from a writing standpoint, I think it's unwise to paint characters you need to be sympathetic into ethical corners where you are guaranteed to alienate a large portion of your audience. You might write a great story where Janeway has to resort to cannibalism, or infanticide, or some other horrible thing, and you may come up with a perfectly plausible reason why it's the right thing for her to do, but it's still stupid. Some things the audience can't forget. And you need the audience to root for, or at least have some sympathy for your protagonists if you want them to tune in every week. That is, of course, unless you want the audience to root against your cast and tune in to see them get their comeuppance. I don't think that's what Trek wants though.



Hypothetical scenario: The brakes on my car fail (through no fault of my own) and I swerve to miss a pedestrian, but inadvertently severely injure two other bystanders in the process. These two bystanders are dying of multiple organ failure. Do I have the right to forcibly harvest the organs of the person I intentionally swerved to miss?

If I hadn't swerved, he would surely already be dead. Now I have the chance to save two lives for the price of one. Does he "owe" me his life?


*Let's stipulate that I can't donate organs myself for whatever reason.
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Bob (a different one)
Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 1:05pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S5: The Inner Light

...so you didn't actually have a point then, did you?
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Bob (a different one)
Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 12:41pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S5: The Inner Light

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, Jason. Picard became Kamin, right? His chubby best friend was Batai.

ELINE: "The rest of us have been gone for a thousand years. If you remember what we were, and how we lived, then we'll have found life again."
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Bob (a different one)
Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 10:37am (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S5: The Inner Light

"how do you get that Picard's friend is named "Patay"? It's "Batai""


Well, then they REALLY tipped their hand because "Batai" is the Tagalog word for "Ancient artifact generated best buddy of a flute playing member of an alien race that's been dead for a thousand years."

Surprised no one has picked up on that before.
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Bob (a different one)
Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 10:22am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: That Hope Is You, Part 2

Prodigy is off to a great start:

https://trekmovie.com/2021/02/17/billy-campbell-talks-reprising-and-redeeming-his-okona-character-on-star-trek-prodigy/
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Bob (a different one)
Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 10:19am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S3: That Hope Is You, Part 2

I would like to see an R rated Klingon-centric show. Really flesh out their society while keeping the violence and political intrigue.
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Bob (a different one)
Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 10:11am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S7: Shadows and Symbols

"She's my least favorite character in ALL of old school Trek, a total waste of precious screen time."


There is no way that Ezri is worse than Rom, Neelix, Wes, Chekov, Yar, or Troi.

Look, I think they picked an awkward time to introduce the character, and "Field of Fire" and "Prodigal Daughter" felt shoehorned in at the last minute, but on the flip side, I'm not very confident that the writers would have substituted better episodes than what we got. There were two lame holodeck episodes that season, a terrible follow-up to "Statistical Probabilities" and a combo Ferrengi/Mirror Universe episode. They would probably have snuck in another Lwaxana episode in if they had had an available slot so count your blessings.
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Bob (a different one)
Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 9:48am (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S1: Coming of Age

"Were he and Quinn corrupted before or after this point?"


That's a very interesting question, Buckbart. I don't think Quinn was infected at this point because, as shown in Conspiracy, he did not recall his conversation with Picard from this episode.


But Remmick is a possibility. What if his professed desire to join the Enterprise was just laying the groundwork for infecting Picard? We know he was a target. Maybe Remmick/Space Critter were already setting up a plan B.

Probably not true, but fun to speculate about.
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Bob (a different one)
Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 10:32am (UTC -6)
Re: TOS S2: Journey to Babel

"Having recently watched "The Forge", the line about Spock's sehlat also gave me a good laugh."


Have you watched the old animated series episode "Yesteryear"? Spock's pet plays a big role in the episode. It's quite good.
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Bob (a different one)
Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 10:25am (UTC -6)
Re: TOS S2: The Doomsday Machine

Here's an animated gif of Commodore Decker doing his best Captain Queeg impersonation, if anyone is interested:


https://i.imgur.com/iszHsC0.gif
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Bob (a different one)
Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 10:12am (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S6: Starship Mine

zaphy said: "I don't quite get the saddle gag. Initially, it's played as if Picard is making up an excuse to get out of talking to Hutch. But then we see he actually has a saddle (and full riding outfit). Then they joke about it again in the final scene."


That is the joke. Or jokes. The first joke is that what seems to be a transparent and rather lame excuse for getting out of the reception surprisingly turns out to be true. The second joke is people facetiously pretending that they knew all along that Picard was being serious when a new person responds to the "saddle excuse" with incredulity.


I like this episode, Die Hard clones were all the rage at the time, but this is a good one because, like the original, it finds a nice mix of light and serious moments.


p.s. Picard's love of horseback riding was previously shown in season two's "Pen Pals."
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Bob (a different one)
Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 3:06pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S2: Deadlock

"I think Voyager running the same time as DS9 had a lot to do with that as well. "


That's actually a very good point that I had never really considered before. I didn't watch VOY until sometime around 2015, I think as it wasn't aired in my area during its original run. I can definitely see the PTB thinking it would be a good way to hedge their bets by doing one show in a (semi) serialized fashion while doing the other in a traditional episodic format. Having two shows on at the same time in the same format probably wouldn't have worked as well.
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Bob (a different one)
Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 1:52pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S7: Shadows and Symbols

" what's up with implying that all these characters are a figment of someone's imagination INSIDE THE SHOW??? "

It was dumb when St Elsewhere did it and it's even dumber on DS9. I also (kind of) agree about Ezri. I don't hate the character, but I hate that she was introduced at the height of the Dominion War story. Every episode that doesn't feel tied to the main storyline in some way feels like a distraction to me.

I do urge you to finish the series, however. There are a several more episodes coming up soon that you will probably dislike, but there are still some very good ones too.

p.s. Nice to know that I'm not the only one not enamored with Far Beyond the Stars.
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Bob (a different one)
Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 11:23am (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S2: Deadlock

^ I got so caught up in my response to DonMel that I forgot to leave a comment on the episode itself!

It's a good one. One of my favorites from the first three seasons. One thing I think Voyager did well was creating new alien races; the Vidiians are one of my favorites.

"Welcome to the bridge" is also an awesome moment; one of the most memorable from the entire series.
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Bob (a different one)
Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 11:16am (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S2: Deadlock

What's the premise of Voyager?

It's about a ship a long way from home surrounded by danger both from enemies and nature itself while being totally cut off from the help and support of the Federation. "How will they survive to make it home?" is a question at the very heart of the series.

But it rarely felt that way. Problems like damage to the ship or being low on supplies were magically solved between episodes. One minute the ship is low on energy, the next we're having a holodeck adventure - because "holodeck energy is different."


Voyager is like Robinson Crusoe...if Crusoe had a McDonald's and a Home Depot on his island.




It also completely abandoned the (brilliant) idea of having a ship manned by Federation and Maquis which would have given the show some much needed drama, conflict, and character growth.


What you are left with is a watered down TNG, with a weaker cast, and without all the worldbuilding that had been done with the Alpha, Beta, and Gamma quadrants.

The show is still ok. There are some truly great episodes that rank amongst the best of Trek, imo. But it will always feel like a missed opportunity to me because, on paper, this really could have been something special.

If they had had the guts to stick with the original concept, they would have combined the best of DS9 (characterization) and the best of TNG (exploration and high concept sci-fi).
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Bob (a different one)
Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 11:44am (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S2: Up the Long Ladder

This episode is a relic of the old days of tv where every Irishman was loud and obnoxious, every Gypsy a thief, every Texan was a rich oil tycoon, and every southerner a hillbilly. Amazingly enough, the broad Irish stereotypes were the least offensive thing about the episode.

The clone plot could have made an excellent episode; I would have loved to have seen a more in depth examination of a culture based on only 5 people. Unfortunately, it's completely half-baked. Bob pointed out several of the things I was going to complain about so I won't bother rehashing all of that.

After rewatching several season 1 and 2 episodes recently I've grown to really dislike Riker. He's smug, arrogant, and his interactions with women come across as smarmy instead of charming.

RIKER: You want to clone us?
GRANGER: Yes.
RIKER: No way, not me.
GRANGER: How can you possibly be harmed?
RIKER: It's not a question of harm. One William Riker is unique, perhaps even special. But a hundred of him, a thousand of him diminishes me in ways I can't even imagine.
GRANGER: You would be preserving yourself.
RIKER: Human beings have other ways of doing that. We have children.

I'm sure Granger was just chomping at the bit to clone a chunky balding middle-aged guy. Whatever will the colony do without those magnificent tromboning skills?!
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Bob (a different one)
Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 11:31am (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S1: Conspiracy

Here's an animated gif of the infamous head explosion scene if anyone is interested:

https://i.imgur.com/zHrItTV.gif
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Bob (a different one)
Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 11:18am (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S2: Pen Pals

Yeah, I don't think Data was in character. I think that he would have realized the PD issue quickly and reported his actions sooner. Worf was way too dick-ish, too, imo.


The dialog in this episode was very unnatural. The crew meetings felt like a bunch of college kids sitting around debating stuff. It felt like a group of people who were studying the PD for the first time instead of career officers who had years of experience dealing with the various facets of it under their belts.

The Wesley subplot was boring and useless as usual.

He's such a Mary Sue. The first officer of the flagship of the fleet is personally responsible for Wes' education? The ship's department heads spend a staff meeting hashing out how Wes should be shepherded into adulthood? Wes is enchardged with leading a project to save an entire freaking planet?! And he succeeds of course. He triumphed by telling an extremely laidback dude to run a scan, which the guy immediately did. Such conflict! Such character growth!
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Bob (a different one)
Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 10:55am (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S5: Latent Image

Probably already been pointed out but the basic premise of this episode is flawed.

If the Doc's memory can be altered, why not 1) do it in a non half-assed way to begin with or 2) just do it a second time


Seems a lot easier than a massive ship wide conspiracy that nearly drives the EMH insane.
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Bob (a different one)
Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 10:48am (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S1: Symbiosis

"the Prime Directive is invoked almost always elicits an eyeroll from me because it's clear that it only matters to the writers when the plot demands"


Yep, it's the plot driven inconsistency that bothers me the most.




There is an interesting moral dilemma it this episode, but the setup is too implausible.


Problems:

1) The drug addicted planet isn't plausible because the populace seems to have devolved to the point that they have the intelligence of Pakleds. I suppose this was done to explain why they were incapable of figuring out what was really going on with the "medicine" but it makes their society seem unrealistic.

2) The drug dealing planet isn't plausible either, because if they are smart enough to run this scam for this long they are smart enough to realize that they can't depend on their customers for transportation.

3) The scale is way off. An entire planet is being supported by what can be carried on three cargo ships?


With a little tweaking (ahem) the plot could have worked.

What if the drug addicted planet knew the "medicine" was nothing more than dope, and just didn't care? Or, at least, weren't willing to go through the pain of withdrawals. Change from two dimensional drug pushers to three dimensional characters who are dealers but who also have some shreds of guilt over being enablers; deep down they are still doing what they do for selfish reasons, but they rationalize it as doing it to "help" their poor neighbors.

Picard's dilemma would still be the same: do the right thing for planet B and there will be unknown and potentially disastrous consequences for planet A. Except now you don't have an easy situation where it feels like the villains are simply getting their just deserts and the addicts aren't simply blameless victims.


As it ends now it feels like a cheat. Picard will be able to stick to the letter of the PD, and still give Crusher what she wants; the drug addicted planet will overcome its addiction. The good guys win! The problem is that it's going to cause the exact same problems that Picard was worried about: there will undoubtable be dire consequences for the drug dealing planet; their entire way of life will be destroyed. (Question: Was the entire populace in on the conspiracy?) Heck, there could even be war between the two planets. Who cares? Picard just orders the Enterprise to haul ass out of there and doesn't look back.

If that is an acceptable outcome, then why did Picard "interfere" in the first place by saving the crew of the cargo ship? The only difference is a matter of scale.


Wouldn't a better ending be one in which the Federation agrees to help both planets? Help planet B kick its habit, and agree to send economic advisors and trade negotiators to planet A to help them overcome the upheaval to their economy? At best, you save a lot of lives and gain two new allies. At worst, you have a situation that is still better than the one Picard ultimately left them with.
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Bob (a different one)
Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 6:47pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S1: The Arsenal of Freedom

I agree with you Crobert, but I think I like this episode a little less than you do. It's ok, but it feels like (several) missed opportunities. Lots of good ideas badly handled.

1) Vincent Schiavelli: When Trek has a good guest star you really need to take advantage of it. Particularly in season one where the regular cast is still so raw. I wish he had had a bigger part to play. I hate that "gets worms" line, too.

2) Picard & Crusher: The hurt/comfort trope is one of the oldest in existence, mainly because it's a very easy way to get audience sympathy and create character chemistry. It completely falls flat here. They go through the "caring for an injured person" part but seemingly forget that they're supposed to work on the chemistry part of the trope. A vet working on a kitten would have been more involving than what we got here.

3) Riker & Tasha: The action plot. Should be good, but it's poorly directed. The Good Ship Lollipop bit goes on forever; he's not the real Captain Rice - we get it. Riker gets it. Everybody gets it. But they just keep stretching it out. The actual action scenes are a little better, but the effects make the bots seem so slow that it robs them of a lot of their menace.

4) Geordi: This is my favorite part of the episode. I think Burton is an underrated actor; he always seemed more "natural" than many of his co-stars. He gets a shot at the spotlight here, but as you said, the conflict between him and lead engineer seems incredibly forced and over the top. How many times was this plot reused on TNG?


Not a terrible episode, but I think it had the chance to be a really good one. If it had succeeded we would have had the first TNG episode with real conflict among the crew, a deeper understanding of the Picard/Crusher relationship, some exciting action scenes, and a chance to see one of the most memorable character actors of the 1980s leave his mark on Trek history.

Instead we get an episode that is just "fine."
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Bob (a different one)
Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 2:17pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S4: Half a Life

Yeah, this is easily the best Lwaxana episode. There is an interview with Majel Barrett where she says that David Ogden Stiers came to her home so that they could rehearse their roles which might explain why they worked so well together.

David Ogden Stiers always vaguely reminded me of Victor Buono. I don't know why. Both actors always made everything they were in better.
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