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Bob (a different one)
Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 12:44pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Relics

Honestly, I just chalk it up to Picard being a mensch.

SCOTT: You're giving me one of your shuttles?
PICARD: Well, call it an extended loan.
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Bob (a different one)
Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 9:52am (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S1: The Squire of Gothos

^ There is more than one instance where the date is "wrong" on those early episodes of TOS. It seems that they hadn't nailed down just what century they wanted the series based in yet.
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Bob (a different one)
Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 9:50am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Relics

Tanner Chaiken asked: "where was Troi during this episode? Shouldn't she be counselling Scotty after being frozen for 75 years?"


There is a deleted scene on the blu ray which shows her doing this very thing. It only makes matters worse for Scotty once he figures out that Geordi has sent a psychiatrist to see him. The scene was cut due to running time issues but honestly it wasn't a very good scene to begin with.



.....

Tempeh said: "Doohan just isn't that fun to watch (in this episode). It's easy to get warm feelings toward him based strictly on nostalgia. I just think he is "off." You can see him reading from cards when he is walking in the hallway"

On the commentary track Ron Moore says that Doohan was having some trouble remembering his lines. Considering he ultimately died from Alzheimer's disease it makes the episode a little more depressing. I thought he did a good job under the circumstances.


...


Silly asked: "And then they just give him a shuttle at the end. Can they just do that?"

If you've ever watched Voyager you will know that shuttlecraft breed faster than Tribbles. You gotta get rid of those suckers as fast as humanly possible or the whole ship will be overrun.

Scotty did sacrifice his own ride, the Jenolan, so maybe they figured one good turn deserves another.


......

I like "Relics." Yeah, mainly because of the nostalgia factor, but that's the whole point of the episode.

Best scene in the ep: The holodeck scene of course.

Most important scene in the episode (imo): the one where the young officer is showing Scotty his quarters. You can see here just how lonely Scotty is as he tries to get the ensign to hang around by telling him tales of the old days. The ensign, like most young people, isn't interested because he has a life/duties of his own to get back to.

Most problematic scene: The engineering scene with Geordi and Scotty. I'm really surprised that this scene wasn't rewritten. Moore just pushes things too far. Scotty was lonely and was afraid of living a life without a purpose and this made him a little clingy - I have no problem with that idea. It happens to people as they get old. The problem is that they made him self-righteous at the same time. I just don't buy that characterization.

The we have Geordi. A nice guy character played by one of the nicest guys on the planet. And now he's snapping at an old man. It just doesn't work. I wonder how many fans Geordi lost because of this one scene?

Bottom line: this story didn't need conflict. How much more devastating would the engineering scene have been if Geordi truly wanted Scotty's help, and Scotty blows his last (in his mind) opportunity to be useful?


p.s. I'm a fan of some of the Star Trek tie-in novels and I'd like to recommend a couple of Scotty-centric books. The first is "Engines of Destiny" by Gene DeWeese; it's a timey-wimey post Generations book. The second is "The Kobayashi Maru" by
Julia Ecklar simply to see how Scotty solves the "insolvable" problem.
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Bob (a different one)
Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 9:09am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Insurrection

This is my least favorite Trek flick. In fact, I have never been able to get through it in a single sitting. I walked out of the theater embarrassed to be a Trek fan. Well, more embarrassed than usual anyway.
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Bob (a different one)
Mon, Mar 15, 2021, 5:16pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S3: A Matter of Perspective

"Having one version be she was coming onto him and another version that he was about to rape her is ridiculous and doesn't serve the story - certainly not enough to warrant it."

She blames Riker for her husband's death. She has two motives: 1) she doesn't want to be seen as disloyal to her dead husband 2) she wants to see her husband's "murderer" punished.


The biggest problem with the episode is that it starred one of the show's main cast. I understand why they did it, but it robs the story of a lot of its impact because you know which side of the story is true.
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Bob (a different one)
Mon, Mar 15, 2021, 5:05pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S3: Deja Q

"the Q continuum just feels like a graveyard for stories."

I'm not a huge fan of "Q as Prankster" episodes, either, but Tapestry, All Good Things, and Q Who all show the characters potential, imo.

I do think this is easily the best of the more humorous Q episodes; there are several great lines in this one. I liked Corbin Bernsen's performance, but I have to admit that I wish the first Q we met after Q wasn't so Q-like. If that makes any sense.
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Bob (a different one)
Mon, Mar 15, 2021, 4:56pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Insurrection

You began by saying "Would THAT much change socially if people didn't grow old and die (unless they opted out)? I really question this notion that living longer equates with some massive change in the human condition."

Now you seem to be making an argument against a point that neither I nor JJ made.
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Bob (a different one)
Mon, Mar 15, 2021, 12:04pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Profit and Lace

1) This episode sucked
2) This argument is dumb
3) The Kids in the Hall wasn't trying to be funny by having guys in drag. They were guys in drag who were funny.
4) What the hell ever happened to Peter Scolari?
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Bob (a different one)
Mon, Mar 15, 2021, 12:02pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Insurrection

What if Albert Einstein lived for 10,000 years?

What if Alexander the Great hadn't died at 33?

What if you could spend 500 years just studying?

What if you could piss away 500 years just doing nothing without really having lost anything?

Have you never said "Boy, if I knew then what I knew now, things would be different?" Imagine having an eternity to actually do just that!

Rewatch the scene between Data and his creator in "Brothers" where they discuss having children and the importance of cherishing old things. How would that scene play out between two immortals?

What would be the effects on society if the young never had to support the elderly and infirm?

What would the economy look like if there were an unending surplus of able bodied workers?

How would gaining immortality conflict with the hardwired biology of humans? Would they still be driven to do have children? Wage war?



There are millions and millions of things that would be different. The only way I could list them all is if I were an immortal. Unfortunately, I am not.
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Bob (a different one)
Mon, Mar 15, 2021, 10:44am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Insurrection

"Would THAT much change socially if people didn't grow old and die?"


Yeah, of course it would be a massive social change.
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Bob (a different one)
Sat, Mar 13, 2021, 10:52am (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S2: First Flight

One thing missing from Jammer's review, imo, is the fact that this episode is almost as much of a T'Pol episode as it is an Archer episode. The beginning of the show where she shows compassion for Archer's loss by insisting on going with him on his mission shows just how far she's come in two seasons. The moral of the story about risk taking and about how exploration is about more than just collecting dry scientific facts is for her benefit, not Archer's. And her last line about naming the nebula after A.G. - would season one's T'Pol have understood the importance of such an illogical, sentimental, human gesture?

The first two seasons feature a naïve, sometimes even a bumbling, Archer learning that at least some of the resentment he felt for the "gatekeeping" of the Vulcans was misplaced. Look at how often T'Pol's prudent warnings turned out to be correct. Likewise, we have seen T'Pol's character evolve over two seasons; she is no longer the ice cold Vulcan who disdains almost everything about humanity from their unrestrained emotions to the way they smell. This episode shows just how much both characters have grown.


I have seen some commenters say that one of the things they dislike about Archer is that he only became captain because of nepotism; that he rode on the coattails of his father's reputation. To me, that is the exact opposite way to view his character and this episode illustrates why. IMO, Archer is someone who loved his father, and feels a lot of bitterness because his father didn't live long enough to see his dream come true. Archer has devoted his entire life to proving the value of his father's work. Ironically, it almost cost him the chance to become captain of the NX-01 because he was so focused on becoming a great pilot to the exclusion of everything else in his life that it made him unfit for command in the eyes of Starfleet.

What did we learn from A.G.? On one hand, he taught the previously "by-the-book" Archer that you have to take risks in order to succeed. But I think there is a difference between being bold and being reckless. I think A.G. had a problem recognizing seeing the line between the two. First, he wrecks the experimental craft and almost ends the warp program. Secondly (and finally) he gets killed while mountain climbing and never gets the chance to go into space. To me, this illustrates a flaw in his character. Maybe that's why Archer, after learning that risk is sometimes necessary, was chosen to be captain of the Enterprise.


P.S. I listened to the commentary track on this episode last night and it featured one of the episode's screenwriters, Chris Black. He mentioned a few things that, in hindsight, he would change in the episode. IMO, almost every change he suggested would have led to a worse episode.

1) He wanted the bar fight to be bigger. I don't really get this at all. This was one of the weaker points in the story, and I don't see how turning it into an over the top Wild West saloon brawl would have made it better.

2) He thought the scenes in the shuttlecraft were too low key. To me they were played perfectly. You've got a scene featuring a Vulcan and a middle aged astronaut quietly grieving for an old friend while on a scientific expedition. I don't think having Bakula getting overly emotional would have fit the situation or the characters at all. I think he and Blalock both did very well in their scenes.

3) He wanted there to be some direct tie between the story Archer was narrating and the problem of finding the dark matter nebula. I don't really understand what he meant with this comment. The "problem" in the story wasn't finding the nebula, the "problem" was in convincing T'Pol that exploration is more than collecting data, that there are beautiful and wondrous things to be discovered if you are willing to take the risk. The script already does that perfectly, imo. I don't think it needed a scene where some scientific discovery or a piece of advice from 7 years ago literally helps them discover the nebula.


Today's lesson: leave well enough alone, Mr. Black. You got it right the first time. One George Lucas is more than enough.
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Bob (a different one)
Sat, Mar 13, 2021, 9:46am (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S2: Regeneration

This is where thy should have killed off Mayweather. Anthony Montgomery wasn't a very good actor (yet) and the writers had clearly abandoned the idea of giving the character anything to do. By killing him off you rid the show of a worthless character and also restore the Borg to their proper place as a legitimate threat.

As it is, this episode is just ok. It feels like another Voyager vs Borg action-hour episode.
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Bob (a different one)
Fri, Mar 12, 2021, 12:30pm (UTC -5)
Re: MAND S1: Chapter 1: The Mandalorian

My main problem with The Mandalorian is that all the plots (that I watched) are very familiar to me.

SPOILERS:

In five episodes you have:

- Hired gunman turns against his employer plot
- Killer becomes protector of the defenseless.(Lonewolf & Cub redux)
- Seven Samurai/Magnificent Seven save the village plot
- Inevitable betrayal by younger partner plot

"Oh my God, somebody is about to shoot Baby Yoda - wait - no - somebody from offscreen shot the assassin in the nick of time!"

^

Not only did they they use this tired cliché, they did it TWICE in the span of three episodes! Even if you are a newborn and this was the first tv show you had ever watched you should still find the second instance predictable.


I do think this is the best SW product (outside of KOTOR) since the mid 80s. the production values are fantastic. The eclectic guest stars are interesting. But if you grew up on a diet of westerns, both traditional and spaghetti, have seen the half-dozen Lone Wolf and Cub movies, The Mechanic (1976) and assorted Kurosawa flicks it's hard to not find the show a little predictable.


P.S. They should have had Werner Herzog direct an episode instead of being a guest star. You let him direct "Mandalor, the Wrath of God" featuring a cgi Klaus Kinski squeezing the shit out of Baby Yoda and I'll sign up for Disney+ in a heartbeat.
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Bob (a different one)
Fri, Mar 12, 2021, 11:34am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S4: Sons of Mogh

Horrible episode.

TNG Worf > DS9 Worf
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Bob (a different one)
Fri, Mar 12, 2021, 10:28am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: Remember Me

Bok's comment reminded me that I hadn't watched this one in a while. It's a good one. Peter G's theories make me think that this might be a more profound story than I had previously given it credit.


P.S. "What the hell is that supposed to mean?" < We could have used Tom Ryker onboard the Voyager for the times that the technobabble got a little too thick.
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Bob (a different one)
Fri, Mar 12, 2021, 10:07am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: Suddenly Human

"Hey, you want to watch Suddenly Human?"

Me: /high-pitched squeal of defiance




Season 4 was, maybe, TNG at its very peak, but this story is extremely tired. It seesaws between stale and annoying for me. The "what to do with a white child raised by Indians" plot had been used by virtually every western series on television in the 1950s and 60s. And there were a LOT of westerns during that era. Scenes like the one where Picard walks in and hears the kids weird music had a very big Silent Generation vs Boomers vibe, too.

Positives:

- I liked the aliens uniforms, minus their helmets.

- I liked the performance of the alien captain.

- I liked the scene where Picard admits to Troi that he isn't comfortable around children. "...really?"

- I also liked the final scene between Picard and the boy.
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Bob (a different one)
Fri, Mar 12, 2021, 9:53am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S4: Hippocratic Oath

I have a feeling that a lot of you guys would side with Alec Guinness instead of William Holden in "The Bridge on the River Kwai."

Prisoner881 cuts to the heart of the matter with this comment:

"Let us assume there is a magical way Bashir could instantly and completely convert all Jem'Hadar in the galaxy into those who think like Goran'Agar. That is, after all, what Bashir is trying to do, right?

Don't forget Goran'Agar's initial reaction to finding Bashir and O'Brien: he ordered their immediate execution. The only thing that stopped him was finding out Bashir was a doctor. In other words, Goran'Agar was perfectly willing to murder anyone he came across who was not immediately useful to his goals. This is not even remotely a live-and-let-live philosophy. It's just a slightly more reserved form of genocide made palatable by casting Goran'Agar as a sympathetic character. Suppose a colony ship carrying hundreds or thousands of civilians had crashed there instead of Bashir and O'Brien? What do you suppose Goran'Agar would've done with them? It shouldn't take long to arrive at an answer, and that answer would tell you all you need to know about whether O'Brien made the right choice or not."
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Bob (a different one)
Thu, Mar 11, 2021, 10:08am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S6: Muse

Thank you very much, Facundo. This really is a very underrated episode, imo.

p.s. One odd thing about this one - what happened to John Schuck? He's an actor with an extensive resume and has made numerous Star Trek appearances, but he's little more than an extra in this episode. I think he has only one line in the entire script outside of the chorus scene. Odder still, he gets a billing in the opening credits.

Memory Alpha says that there were numerous rewrites during filming so maybe he lost some lines. If that's the case, it's a shame that they couldn't have given him the part of the actor playing "Logical Tuvok."
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Bob (a different one)
Thu, Mar 11, 2021, 9:44am (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S1: The Conscience of the King

"Why is there never an industrialized place? Jeez, even the silent movie. ‘Metropolis’ managed THAT!"


A weekly tv series is very different than a movie. Metropolis was one of the most expensive movies ever made at that point and it took over a year to film.

It would be difficult to create an industrialized city on a tv budget that didn't look even less realistic than those Styrofoam rocks you mentioned. And on top of that, you'd have to be able to store all those set pieces because you can be damn sure that they would be recycled at every opportunity for the rest of the show's run.

There is an interview with Michael Pillar on one of the TNG blu ray disks where he talks about his first experience writing for the show. He wrote a script with a lot of extras and a big phaser battle. He quickly learned that this was out of the question. He says that a show that has, say, a 1.5 million dollar budget really only has of 1 or 2 hundred thousand. Why? Because a huge portion of the budget has already been allocated to salaries for the actors, crew, producers and all of the other expenses that must be met before you can even begin an episode. He said that instead of getting the 150 phaser blasts he wanted, he got 12. Because each blast cost $2,500 dollars to produce. He also learned that extras that said "yes, sir" to Picard cost a lot more than an actor who simply nodded.

Now imagine how much penny pinching went on on TOS where they couldn't rely on cost saving computers. Oh, and another thing to keep in mind: sci-fi props and sets only had limited use. It isn't like you could reuse those props on Gunsmoke or something.


p.s. Yeah, Jammer totally missed what McCoy was talking about at the end of the episode.
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Bob (a different one)
Tue, Mar 9, 2021, 3:17pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S7: Seventh Season Recap

I only got around to watching this show a couple of decades after it went off the air. After my first complete watch of Voyager I found 57 episodes that I liked. Not great, but it was nice to find almost 60 new Trek episodes to watch.

A few years later I did a partial rewatch with my father. He wasn't crazy about the show, and I found that a few of the episodes that I initially thought were good weren't so hot.

Second Watch Subtractions:

Caretaker (I)
Caretaker (II)
Night
Juggernaut

A week ago I started another partial rewatch, sticking to my list of "good" episodes. Well, things didn't go very well. 15 more episodes get added to my "skip" list.

Third Watch Subtractions:

Time and Again
Maneuvers
Alliances
The Chute
The Swarm
Day of Honor
The Raven
Scientific Method
The Killing Game (I)
The Killing Game (II)
Dark Frontier (I)
Dark Frontier (II)
Dragon's Teeth
Flesh and Blood (I)
Flesh and Blood (II)


So, now I'm down to 38 episodes. It's probably going to be a long time before I revisit this show.

Anyways...of the ones that I do like, these are some of my favorites:



Muse
Living Witness
Remember
Blink of an Eye
Nemesis
Drone
Counterpoint
Someone to Watch Over Me
One Small Step
Body and Soul
Survival Instinct
Timeless
Barge of the Dead
Infinite Regress
Unity
Prey
Deadlock
Year of Hell
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Bob (a different one)
Tue, Mar 9, 2021, 3:03pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S1: Time and Again

I have no idea why I went out of my way to give this episode the benefit of the doubt in my previous comment. Voyager certainly never does anything to earn it. One more episode to add to my "skip" list.
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Bob (a different one)
Tue, Mar 9, 2021, 1:24pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S7: Workforce

I think it's one of the best "ensemble" episodes in all of Trek. Every cast member gets something to do and it all fits together perfectly. I think it benefited from being in season 7; all the character moments, both big and small, added up over the series run and the chemistry amongst the crew was on full display in this episode.


Apsara81Cloud asked: "If all the crew (except Chakotay, Neelix, Kim, EMH) were abducted, was Naomi Wildman placed in a child labor camp? :]"


She was the Assistant Efficiency Monitor, of course.


....


Amanda said: "I liked Jaffin! They wrote him as her equal where they forgot with Chakotay. I was even rooting for him to stay on Voyager. Then his pathetic insecurity showed when he found out she was a Captain and he retreated inside."

It wasn't his call. From the script:

JANEWAY: I'd offer you a position. I could always use another skilled Engineer. But as the captain, it wouldn't really be appropriate for me to -
JAFFEN: Fraternize with a member of your crew.


So basically Janeway says "Hey, I'd love to have a new engineer, but our relationship is 100% over." Can you blame a guy for not wanting to be stuck aboard Voyager for the rest of his life, close to the woman he loves, but never having the chance to truly be with her?

I don't really get Janeway's position here. If she sincerely loved him I don't understand why he MUST be a crewmember under her command. If she doesn't love him I think he deserves more than a lame "I can't fraternize with the crew" excuse.

.....

Jammer said: "The only thing missing from "Workforce" is a powerful ending."

I agree with this, and I think I know what the problem is. The heart of this episode is the romance between Janeway and Jaffen and the ending undercuts the emotional impact of that relationship.

CHAKOTAY: Ready to go?
JANEWAY: It may not have been real, Chakotay, but it felt like home. If you hadn't come after me, I never would've known that I had another life.
CHAKOTAY: Are you sorry I showed up?
JANEWAY: Not for a second. Resume course, Mister Paris.

The "not for a second" line rips the heart out of the episode. Janeway doesn't seem to be affected by what happened. Anything new that we learned about her character can be chalked up her being brainwashed. So what's the point? It's just one more use of the Reset Button where the status quo is reestablished.

Imagine if we find out that someone had been tampering with the EMH's program in "Lifesigns" or "Someone to Watch Over Me." Now imagine if either of those episode ended with the Doc saying "whew - I'm glad that's over!" Unsatisfying? You bet. But that's pretty much how "Workforce" wraps up Janeway's love affair.


p.s. How bad of an employee does Tom Paris have to be to get fired from a job as a slave laborer?

Space Simon Legree: "uh...Tom we've decided to...um...go in another direction. Sorry things didn't work out. Best of luck to you in your future thralldom."
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Bob (a different one)
Tue, Mar 9, 2021, 12:14pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S6: Blink of an Eye

I have never heard of Dragon's Egg. It sounds intriguing. I'll definitely have to check it out.


Jammer said: "it almost seems like the original script's writers, Arthur Heinemann and Gene Coon, deserved to be inserted into this week's credits."

The only person who deserves any credit for anything good about "Wink of An Eye" is Bill Theiss for designing Deela's costume.

The basic idea of a society living at a faster pace than the surrounding universe isn't a new one. Theodore Sturgeon's "Microcosmic God" was printed in 1941 and the idea had already been done a few times by then.


I love the idea for this episode. It's a Four Star plot for sure. But there is something missing. It just doesn't "pop." You don't have to have a multi-million dollar budget to tell a good story, but I think this episode would have been helped with an infusion of cash. Hire some better actors for the small guest roles, create some more visually interesting sets, and maybe hire a director who can get more out of the actors. I'm not qualified to criticize a director's work, of course, but a lot of the actors just seemed a little off. The story is great and absolutely deserves to have the producers pull out all the stops and treat it as a "prestige" episode.

Voyager has a bad habit of having a bum note in otherwise excellent episodes. Doc having a "son" is this episode's. It comes out of nowhere, raises some pretty big questions, and is dropped and never mentioned again.


Complaints aside, this is still one of Voyager's very best, imo.
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Bob (a different one)
Tue, Mar 9, 2021, 11:09am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S2: Sanctuary

A lot of people concerned about Jews on this forum.
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Bob (a different one)
Tue, Mar 9, 2021, 11:07am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S7: Flesh and Blood

I like Robert Picardo, but I'm not a huge fan of the EMH. I just don't get the character.

I really wish they had never done a sentient hologram story after Moriarty. Not because the idea isn't interesting, it is, it's just that I don't think the writers are capable of doing the subject justice. There are difficult moral, legal, and philosophical questions that demand more than a superficial "holographic rights" episode now and again. You really need a talented futurist to theorize about what a self-aware hologram, who was able to program and improve himself, would really be like. I have a feeling that Isaac Asimov wouldn't be satisfied with a "Doc Creates a Sitcom Family" episode.


As for this episode: I don't like it. The Hirogen become chumps, Janeway is in "badass" mode, the Doc betrays his friends, and the sympathetic Iden turns into a cartoonish psycho with a messiah complex simply because the story needs a shoot-em-up action climax.

How can a hologram shooting a holographic gun totally obliterate another hologram, program and all?

Nice to see Janeway give the Doc another slap on the wrist when he misbehaves. First he helps hound a guy to death via Seven's false (?) memories, and now he stabs the crew in the back. It's like the writers want me to hate the characters. This time they succeeded.
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