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Booming
Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 12:57am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S4: The Quickening

@ Mertov
Ok, call what I write deep dive nitpicking (I'm not entirely sure what that means) but my comments on episodes are my actual opinion. What you wrote here is not your actual opinion.

To admit the scene where the one guy (who later dies in the hospital) points at Bashir always stood out as pretty bad acting / directing.

And the reason why the people were not too mad at Bashir after the people died in the hospital was that he didn't take money and the people who came to him were already "quickening" which means that they would have died very soon. If they hadn't gone to Bashir the would have gone to Trevean. The pointing guy even says so when he enters. Plus Bashir at the beginning openly states that he cannot promise anything.
His entire arc in this episode is the classic hero's journey and a good comparison to the eye ball scene. In the everybody dies in the hospital scene and the aftermath I completely understand what is happening and why people behave in a certain way. In the eye ball scene I have no idea why anybody does anything and I have the lurking suspicion that I'm not supposed to. Let's ignore the eye ball thing itself, maybe they are just sick perverts who like to torture people but why would seven not at least try to beam Itcheb to her ship. She appears, tries to take him but he says no and that is the end of the debate and then she shoots him. Both their motives are nebulous. STP and Discovery are shows that constantly leave me with questions that these shows never answer. The eye ball scene is the very foundation of her character on the show and there are many things that make no sense about this scene or are at least not explained in any way. It is simplistic and manipulative drama.
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Bilbo
Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 12:26am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

Star Trek: Picard?
This show should be called ‘Everyone Hates Picard’ instead.
For a guy who was one of the most revered and respected people in Starfleet to be reduced to a stupid old man that everyone hates and bitches at in every single episode is really lame.
Let’s place our bets on who’s going to bitch at Picard next week.......


The only reason I’m still watching is because I really like Patrick Stewart but I sure hope that this show starts to improve.
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Booming
Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 10:43pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@ Omicron
"Oh great... I see you're in full-snark "I know everything and you are all stupid" mode."
No that was not my intent. I actually find your sentiment/view sweet. I'm not an economist so my opinion about capitalism is not more sophisticated than that of any other person here. And about that communist manifesto comment. Have you actually read the communist manifesto or das Kapital. What you write about megacorporations sounds like something out of a socialist pamphlet. Even though there are parts of your statement I disagree with/don't understand for example "the ordinary rules of economics". That is not a thing, isn't it? Aren't what you describe just market forces at work?

"Perhaps you should return to that project that you've been procrastinating on? Seems like it will be a far better use of your time."
But I really really don't want to. It's very boring. :(
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Booming
Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 2:25pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S4: The Quickening

@Mertov
Sorry, I expected a critical reflection on the shortcomings of the particular episode not a slating/purposefully negative review.
Because you gave me something I didn't want I give you this. (Picture me looking very stern at you)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhhoS3zOskE&fbclid=IwAR15C8ZQysrYN9-F543YAuhtFB2nbdKNAq4Fix3exNRVfLkZcN8VseR45a4
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Booming
Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 1:21pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

To this whole post modernism debate and whatever
My point of view (in bad quality)
at 18:54
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6mwbpy

@skye
"I'm hoping that's the point of PIC. That things HAVE gone astray and he's trying to find out why and get them back to how they should be. Something rotten at the core of the Federation etc."
But wouldn't that be the very core of the white savior narrative? One strong man unbent by adversity swoops in and makes it all good.
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Booming
Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 10:16am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@ grey cat again
Sorry forgot to say that you cannot compare TNG ratings on imdb with STP ratings because the side IMDB didn't exist when TNG aired. I hope I don't have to explain why. toodeloo
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Booming
Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 10:14am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@ grey cat
If you look at my post you will notice that I just try to understand whatever it is your are saying. When you look at your comments you will notice that is full of personal attacks and insults. I guess it is not entirely clear who is on a "person crusade".
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Booming
Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 8:18am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@ grey cat
Completely forgot you. Well, I actually googled at google scholar but couldn't find anything relevant. Not that I looked that much.

"Also there's a few some interesting studies on the kind of people that even write reviews online (only 1.5% do). There's also a few studies saying the exact opposite.... so yeah. So it's either a fact or it isn't depending on what you choose to believe."
You are quoting a study? an article? a youtube video?

"I found this amusing "...people who write online reviews are more likely to buy things in unusual sizes, make returns, be married, have more children, be younger and less wealthy, and have graduate degrees than the average consumer" Well I only tick 2 of those boxes so I guess I should leave lol."
Is this from a study???

"That probably explains why Picard has 8.4 on IMDB yet you have to have scroll through loads of pages of 1 out 10 rage monsters with varying versions of "this is not star trek. 16.1k ratings. Under 600 reviews. "
It's already at down to 8.2 and the episodes individually are rated as follow:
episode one 8.5
episode two 7.5
episode three 7.6
episode four 7.4
episode five 7.1

There seems to be a tendency...
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Booming
Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 8:10am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@ Andy friend
I have a little time now.
I will keep this brief because most of this has nothing to do with the show. I knew that it wasn't a good definition. It's not nonsense but you should keep in mind that we for the most part discuss this stuff with people who have no understanding of this whatsoever. I'm a sociologist and political scientist (mostly political scientist) and in political science postmodernism is basically absent and in sociology it seems to lose ground pretty quickly. So I know Foucault from a sociological standpoint. I find postmodernism pretty useless as a sociological tool because it cannot really be used for anything because anything has to be questioned constantly. A study in a specific theoretical framework about a power structure is itself a product of power structures blaaaaa. Postmodernism always reminds me of the snake that eats itself. Never read Derrida and probably never will.

I also must admit that my respect for philosophy, theology and history is somewhat limited. I went to a few history and philosophy courses back then and it was two steps away from voodoo in my opinion. It was just people writing about people writing about people writing about people (I went mostly to ancient history courses, I guess there are differences to more contemporary history. maybe contemporary history follows a more scientific methodology). And I think philosophy will follow the way of alchemy which was sent to greener pastures by chemistry, biology and physics. For philosophy it will be neurology(brain), psychology(individual) and sociology(group), maybe philosophy will be used to interpret the findings of these fields. Maybe. In the social sciences we deal mostly with statistics and try to follow as closely as possible the methodology of the natural sciences.
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Booming
Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 5:16am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@Omicron
I'm procrastinating now. I find it sweet that think that way about capitalism.
Two things. First: what we see today is what capitalism was always about. Creating oligopolies or at best monopolies. It just happens on a global scale now.
second: and that is maybe what bugs many people today. Small businesses for a long time could somewhat thrive because the markets they were occupying were too small as to be interesting BUT luckily (irony) now with modern communication and computers gigantic companies can cover basically all markets big and small.
And again ironically the moment the socialist threat disappeared the capitalists immediately started to behave in a way that created leftist movements in the first place. Also let's not forget if capitalism would have started in Russia we would probably all be communists today. ;)

"We live in a world that's ruled by megacorporations who've gotten so powerful that they are no longer subject to the ordinary rules of economics. They have the entire world under their command. They can easily kill off (or buy) all their competition while continuing to create substandard products."
Did you copy that out of the communist manifesto or Das Kapital? :D

Enough! I hope you are happy! You are ruining my life by summoning me back here. I have to work! Stop it. Bad Omicron. Bad!
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Booming
Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 3:22am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@ Wainscoting
"I'm not saying it was intentional but kind of. I mean essentially everything in media we consume is to some extent no?"
No. :) I find it far more reasonable to view the current media landscape and Star Trek, if you want to see general trends, as post ideology and that is closer related to the end of the cold war. What Fukuyama called the end of history. At the core of the US identity is capitalism, which isn't unrelated to the cold war. There are other fundamental parts of US identity but capitalism during the 20th century became the core value (That is one of the reasons the democratic establishment freaks out about Sanders). Sorry I have to end it here, too much to do (my 10 days of peace are over). it boils down to: one ideaology (kind of won) and now there is really nothing else but the capitalistic society to approach problems and capitalism creates a lot of the problems societies try to solve. So basically there are no real solutions anymore, just the vague dwindling hope that capitalism will somehow provide solutions and that leads to nihilism and cynicism.
Sorry it is extremely simplistic.

"My understanding of the premise of postmodernism is that our mythologies contain dangerous foundational assumptions born of a narrow set of cultural parameters that irrevocably dictate our reality and what we’re able to think. It says that the very concept of ‘reasoning’ is itself the product of Western cultural bias. There is no objective Truth with a capital T etc."
That is not the premise but one of the hypothesis on can derive through the post modernist framework. You could apply it to for example to Chinese society and come to an equally damning judgement. I'm not happy with some aspects of your definition but I guess it will have to do.

" See @Guiding Light higher in the comments for a prime example ;)"
I actually thought that guiding lights comments were more about third wave feminism which for the postmodern thinker is likely just another column in the temple of the current society. Stabilizing power structures by including a higher percentage of women into the capitalistic society. ;)

ENOUGH. I have to work.
Have fun with the vid. :)
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Booming
Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 12:54am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@Wainscoting
"This new, truly postmodern trek has replaced all that sincerity with irony. We see that intelligent life is disposable, people are vain, self-obsessed and eschew the idea of a duty to the common good, society is destined to remain fragmented with people always finding a way to exploit one other."

I'm not a big fan of postmodernist thinking but this is just not correct. Do you really believe that the show is constructed around a philosophical framework created in mid 20th century France about how all societal narratives are constructed to reinforce societal power structures? Is that your point? This sounds like dark web nonsense to me. The show clearly is against xenophobia pro refugee and almost gung-ho. A true postmodernist show could not make such statements or take these positions. Postmodernism is at it's core about questioning unproven beliefs? Also why would a postmodernist narrative be vain or self obsessed? Have you actually read Foucault?! You should also keep in mind that I could take your statement change the postmodernism for capitalism and it would fit far better. But I don't think that the show is actually anti capitalist. It is just a ham-fisted reflection on the present.

Here if you want to begin to understand postmodernist thinking. This video is a good start. (activate subtitles) I fall on Chomsky's side in this debate but Foucault is undoubtedly genius and makes some good points.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wfNl2L0Gf8
(here, if you lack the patience to listen to the entire debate, the part of the debate that is often highlighted)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5wuB_p63YM


@grey cat
"Thoroughly enjoying PIC. 7 or 8 out of 10 episode."
I guess that finally proves that the fans of the show are real visionaries.

" People mostly leave a review if they hate the effect or have some horrible reaction. "
People always say that but so far I haven't come across a single study that indicates that there is even some truth to it.
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Nothing but the Tears
Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 12:11pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

Long-time visitor of the site, first comment. Also, I love that Jammer's still reviewing to this day.

I loved the pilot. I thought episodes 2-4 were okay. I though this last one was terrible.

So much has already been said so I’m just leaving some of my thoughts about this episode as well as the show so far.

In my view, the show’s biggest issue by far is its writing. It manages to produce individual moments or exchanges that are great (e.g. Seven and Picard talking about how much of their humanity remains) but often feels meandering or confused to me (which carries over to dialog at times). I love serialized shows as well as shorter seasons but the creators really have to nail it. There’s also the issue of introducing interesting characters such as Dahj or Maddox but never allowing them to grow beyond being plot devices.

The torture scene, in my opinion, was unnecessary. Seven finding Icheb dead or dying, with clear signs of his mistreatment, as well as her reaction, is enough for me to understand how it impacts her and becomes a motivation for her. It really doesn’t take more than that. Based on the reactions of friends and family, I’m also concerned it could serve to drive away viewers, especially if they’ve been on the fence.

To wrap things up, I’m planning to watch the rest of the season. I’m not happy about where we are and I’m not overly optimistic but I still think there’s potential. Plus, if nothing else, I just love watching Patrick Stewart (even though I wasn’t impressed by him here, unfortunately).
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PB
Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 11:33am (UTC -6)
Re: ENT S1: Terra Nova

I really liked this episode, actually, including the goofy dialect. It made me think about what language would look like for people who got it all from traumatized small children who didn't learn perfect English or develop extensive vocabularies from native speakers. Weird grammar + most of the vocabulary and metaphor adopted over generations involved stuff from their daily life. I'm not a linguist so I don't know if there were problems in execution or anything, but the basic concept makes sense.
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Booming
Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 9:52am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@ Hank
Let's not generalize too much, shall we?
Leftists, progressives and so on are not a monolith. As not every conservative is the same as a Nazi or fascist. Is the entire right responsible for what one right wing extremists says?
I actually find this product of a multi billion dollar company to be a strange melange of the least desirable traits of the left and right. "Xenophobia is bad and now Punk make my day."
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Bold Helmsman
Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 7:56am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@Booming
Not really. Much of the diplomacy seem in TNG could really be categorized as being of the Big Stick variety, since the show takes place on a heavily armed vessel, and that was the style of the day back then.

There's also not much point in saying that the Federation has evolved beyond money when the show doesn't really show how that fixes all the issues caused by capitalism in the first place.
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I Have No Brain
Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 7:24am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

Does Nagillum show up?
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Booming
Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 5:51am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

That's fine but it wasn't the point I was making. This show is obviously very much aimed at US Americans. My point was that, as you probably assume correctly, the scene is in there to make the (US) audience emphasize with Seven. The creators thought that the audience needs torture porn to feel empathy with something. It feels like they overplayed their hand here. It also didn't feel earned in any way. We don't know he he ended up there. How long was he there. We don't know why he is not sedated. We don't know why Starfleet isn't rescuing him. We don't know how Seven found him or how she got into the facility. Why doesn't Seven try to save him. The show doesn't tell us and never will. It was just: Look out EYE BALL!!! and pew pew pew+forced drama. That is not good story telling.

You know what this all reminds me of. This stuff and here it is a funny meta joke about American militarism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PpKA9klZWQ
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Booming
Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 5:06am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@ wolfstar
And let's keep in mind that reviews of shows are normally based on the first three or four episodes not the entire season.

@Tim C
"Yes, the torture scene is there for the audience, so that we *empathise with Seven*, and that we know what an incredibly dangerous risk she is taking when she decides to confront these people."
I know that the USA are a culture that is very, very fond of violence but I as a soft hearted European don't need to see eyeballs slowly being ripped out to emphasize with somebody who is driven by personal loss.

@ Guiding Light
"But as a show of its time that did not actively break out of the social norms, yes, it helped to solidify these structures."
I may be misremembering the 80s USA (considering that I was not even 10 and did not live in the US:) but I would say that portraying a society without money who tried to solve problems with diplomacy not guns was breaking a few social norms.
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Booming
Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 3:58am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@ Tim C
"The opening scene serves two important functions. (1) It shows new viewers, and reminds older ones, what it means to have Borg implants removed (and put in in the first place). It demonstrates, graphically, the danger that Seven is going to be putting herself in later in the episode by using herself as bait. (2) It shows us why Seven has become what she has become."
To point 1: No it really doesn't. While the process of assimilation itself seemed somewhat physically painful the actual reconfiguration with new parts never looked like the people, who experience it, were in pain. And when they took Borg stuff out of people like Picard or Seven I'm fairly certain that they did that when the two were sedated. Why was Icheb not sedated in the eye ball scene? Are they just psychopath who get off on inflicting horrific pain?

To point 2: You add "If we hadn't seen this moment on-screen, and Seven had just turned up saying "I want revenge because Icheb was tortured and murdered by 24th century organ thieves" but again Seven doesn't see him being tortured. The torture scene is only there for audience. To what end? To show us that torture and ripping out body parts is horrible?
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Booming
Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 3:23am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@ Guiding Light
I still don't get what you are trying to say. Is your hypothesis that TNG was some kind of regressive view on society that only solidified power structures (for anybody who doesn't know. We have just entered Foucault territory)?
I always preferred Bourdieu over Foucault by a wide margin. So for me it's more about capital transfer than power structures.

STP is a show about wild west renegades trying to right the wrongs with guns for emotional reasons. And I might add that Picard's crew is exclusively (apart from background hat rack Elnor) Human. So it is certainly far less diverse when it comes to Human to Alien ratio. And let's not talk about the aliens to Humans kill ratio. Or that aliens and bureaucrats are the main enemy. That all sounds more like a Clint Eastwood show, to be perfectly honest.
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Booming
Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 1:56am (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@ Aerliae
"I really don't like what they did to Seven. You can make a change make sense, but that doesn't make it a good change."
In the new form of Trek the (kind of) good people are only motivated by close personal relationships. Picard wants to find the daughter of Data because he loves Data apparently. Raffi wanted to talk to her son and follow her former mentor. Elnor does this for his surrogate father. And seven formed her entire identity around the murder of her surrogate son. Does it break her character? Maybe, but all these characters must have motivations that even a dodo can understand immediately. Rios is the only one who doesn't do it for family and friends but for money. And Jurati is evil now and will not survive season 1. Her motivation is "dark mystery". The same motivation of every other bad guy/gal on the show. The motivations for the good people are simplistic and the motivations for the bad people are a mystery.
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Brian
Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 7:16pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

Bottom line for me....

This show obviously cannot be all things to all people. And that's OK. But they chose to use the Picard character to make this show appeal to a very specific audience. It should at least not destroy Trek for the audience it was marketed to.
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Booming
Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 6:43pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@ Drea
Yeah good point. The show doesn't seem to know if it wants to be anti white savior or pro white savior.

"Will this show motivate questioning and action? Or will it only be wish fulfillment?"
It will end on a cliffhanger.

"Oh, and it looks like about 100% of us dislike the gore. I looked away from the screen entirely as soon as it started, which may affect how I then reacted to the entire episode."
Not all but yeah I also really don't like this stuff. Before I was mostly critical of the writing inconsistencies and glacial build up combined with the whole "look we are so relevant" stuff but that scene really made me question the show in general. So far every week there was still a part from me hoped for something clever, maybe even really good. I'm not sure that this is the case anymore.
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Booming
Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 6:36pm (UTC -6)
Re: PIC S1: Stardust City Rag

@Guiding Light
First of all Star Trek was always more or less American and it may come as a shock to you but I'm fairly certain that Chinese science fiction does not feature Mozart often or many white detective books.

"the chance to feel progressive while actually cementing power structures."
You mean in a show about a post scarcity no money earth where people just do the jobs they want to do, not the ones they have to is cementing power structures? I have made enough negative comments about TNg and to some degree about Voyager when it comes to gender but DS9 was fairly progressive.

"That is one of the reasons why people go for Trump, because they feel that this society, that even 'progressive' shows like TNG promised, is now under attack: White culture from the past may not be the baseline anymore."
Are you seriously making the argument that TNG was an important contributor to the Trump presidency and the rise of right wing populism? What is your explanation for French right wing populism? They aren't big fans of Star Trek.
In the coming month I will do research about right wing populism and have deep familiarization with the topic of right wing populism and I guarantee you in no study I have participated in or that I have read has anybody ever mentioned Star Trek. And if you are not saying that then what are you saying? Just throwing in Trump for no reason?
As is often the case the question why Trump became president is extremely complex but I assure you it has nothing to do with a science fiction show from the 80s.

" but in 2020 we have to move away from comforting lies and I congratulate PICARD for be willing to do just that."
And teaching lessons like "gunning down your enemy and many more is good"; "lower class people are shitty"?
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