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The Slash Between
Fri, May 29, 2020, 6:45pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Chain of Command, Part I

It’s interesting all the defence of Jellico’s command style based on “that’s how it is in the military”.

That’s not a defence of his actions, just of the character’s existence.

From the moment he comes on-board, he spends exactly zero time building the relationships with the crew that would allow him to use them effectively. Those relationships don’t take much time, and the human element they provide makes a real difference when the SHTF. He’s a bad leader of people, and we should stop putting bad leaders in management positions.

He should have been behind a desk at Starfleet Tactical, drooling over the new issue of Phasers and Photons in between stacks of paperwork.
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Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 8:36pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S6: Spirit Folk

I think one of the reasons why mass-market entertainment has gotten so bad is because people are all too willing to turn off their brains. If people flock to swill, network and studio executives will believe that swill is box office gold. This raises the question of which came first, movie/tvgoers who will accept anything, or executives who will produce anything. At this point, it may no longer matter.
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Dash Rendar
Thu, Feb 13, 2020, 7:52pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S1: 11001001

Good episode. Probably the best of Series 1 in my opinion. This was the episode that had the adolescent me drooling at the amazing visual fx that still look good today.
Loved Riker getting caught having a holowank by the captain, but it was awkward when they ended up playing pass the sex toy. Perhaps that's just my 20th/21st century ideals talking.
After Picard gets ejaculation guilt, it gets a bit over dramatic with the old self destruct countdown caper, but I enjoyed it none the less.
I liked the binars. They were a quirky bunch. I also liked the choreographed swivel & stand which was somewhat binar-esque.
Definitely an interesting watch, but 4 stars seems a bit high. A low 3 for me I think. TNG gets much better than this.
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Sun, Jun 30, 2019, 4:25am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S7: All Good Things...

I have done it! After so many years of wanting to see Star Trek: The Next Generation again, I have finally seen it again. I have decided instead of commenting through the series to leave my thoughts to the end, so this is a summary of my feeling of the series of a whole and not just of the last episode.
May I say a special thanks to Jammer and all those who have commented on the website. I have found them, as Spock would say, “fascinating”.
Worst Part: Season One
The start of TNG was horrible. It reminded me of going to that type of party where the music is lame, the food unappetizing and everyone wants to be somewhere else. Watching Worf and Data at the beginning felt more like watching a parody rather than the characters I came to grow and love in the middle seasons. Too many stories were lame and uninspiring. How it got to have a 2nd season is beyond me.
Best Part: Liquid Gold
What makes a good show? I do not really know, other than an emotional connection is important to me. I want shows to made to laugh, to cry, to think, to be inspired. At it’s best, TNG does this.
The menace of “The Best of Both Worlds”.
The malevolence in “Chain of Command.”
Worf’s vindication in “ Redemption”
The bitter sweetness of “Lower Decks”.
The interesting concepts brought up by “The Measure of a Man.”
Wonderful, Wonderful, Wonderful. They make tv watching worthwhile.

The Disappointing Part: The World View
I love the show to bits, but I am not blind to several problems with the show
Let me explain:
1) There is poor explanation how this sort of world would work
It is fairly obvious that a guiding premise of Star Trek is that atheism is true and a humanistic outlook in life is to be desired. However, this premise has holes in it.
Religion in general and Christianity in particular has been a driving force for good in our society.
It was their faith in God that inspired scientists like Isaac Newton, Johannes Kepler (my scientific hero) and Louis Pasteur.
It was faith in God that drove social reformers like William Wilberforce, Francis Nightingale and the 7th Earl of Shaftesbury.
It was faith in God that drove thinkers like Martin Luther King, Sir Francis Bacon, Soren Kierkeggard.

I also note that while there have been plenty noble atheists, there also have been more than enough mass murdering atheistic despots around. Therefore, it would be a stretch to say that the world will be automatically better off when it is run by scientific atheists. Don’t presume it-Prove it.
So, how would an atheistic world improve itself if there are no religious influences to drive progress? It is really not good enough to ditch all this and say bland statements like: “The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity.” What does this really mean? How does that differ from many ways of living today that could say the same thing?
What should have happened?
I really wish that the show addressed religion reasonably, looking at both the good and bad it has done. I really wish that it showed more of how the societies are motivated to improve. The show would have been deeper, richer and more interesting. This is one of the reasons why I love DS9. I am not sure that DS9 got it right, but at least they made a brave attempt to look at religion and how it effects society.

2) Its portrayal of society is anemic and unrealistic.
I get that Star Trek wants to show the humans can get along with everyone in a mature way. I am grateful for its positive vision of the future. The reality though is that there are problems in the world of Star Trek. We even see this in episodes like “The First Duty” and “The Drumhead”. We see this in the poor or problematical relationships the crew have with their families. But instead of admitting this and dealing with it, the show just seems to pretend all is ok. The result are characters that feel plastic and shows that are filled with hollow arrogance. Episodes like “Times arrow”, “Q Who”, “Who Watches the Watchers” and “The Neutral Zone” all have examples of this.
What should have happened?
I really wish that the show had investigated the underbelly of society more. It would have made the program feel more real and authentic. Again, this is one of the reasons I love DS9, where “all the problems haven't been solved yet” and “those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people will become as nasty and violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon.”

3) Its lack of vision
Star Trek loves to see itself as progressive and challenging society’s boundaries. However, when it comes to the portrayal of women, TNG lets down the game. Compare the roles and characterization of Troi and Crusher on TNG to Dax and Kira in DS9 and Janeway and Torres on Voyager. Troi and Crusher lesser characters. They have little power and are not essential to many of the main story lines.
What should have happened?
How about Crusher taking charge of missions more often. How does a female Doctor run a starship? What mistakes do inexperienced bridge officers make and how do they improve? Now that would be interesting!
Why not make Troi an expert at going into hostile environments and using her interpersonal skills and wits to complete her missions? Why not allow her to use her intuition to find creative solutions that the Data’s of the world cannot discover? Now that be interesting!

Thanks again everyone. Live long and prosper
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Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 7:15pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow


-- "she's even said "no problem" with me going ahead with her younger version, so that would settle it for me"

You sir are far braver man than I. If and when the WW3 comes I'd be honored to share the foxhole with you and brave the post atomic horror so we can witness that glorious day in Bozeman, Montana.
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Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 9:32am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

@ Tomalak

Generally there is a lot of unspoken red lines associated with dating friend's exes, siblings of your friends, siblings of your previous partners etc. etc. which can cause a lot of fallout if you don't approach them carefully. It's just the way humans work, an ever shifting minefield, when feelings and sex in general are involved. General rule of thumb is communication and respect, you contact parties involved and talk it out, if you value persons involved. Time stranded doppelganger is a play on this situation to the power of thousand. I mean we are not Vulcans :D
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Mon, Apr 22, 2019, 7:31am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow


The problem with Star Trek in the waning years of the 90s era was the recycling and it was something the franchise was called out on repeatedly until most of us just moved on and Enterprise petered out. I watched ALL of Trek multiple times, original runs and reruns, and Voyager and Enterprise are cynical and bald faced exploitation of TNG formula, I said it then, and I say it now. In both shows you still had good actors heroically struggling against almost computer generated scripts.

Regarding Ed and younger Kelly, him doing the whole relent or I'll date your previous self thing was very very unethical, because despite them being divorced Kelly is a person who has feelings, is his friend and coworker and some sort of empathy must kick in. It's a strange way of violating one's person, also it kinda nukes the whole possibility of him getting his "real" Kelly sometime down the road and risks effectiveness of his chain of command.

If an old girlfriend of mine tried to date my previous self I'd feel pretty much pissed off and insecure because despite me and my past self being essentially two different people it's still ME she is after and the thought of 7 years older ex gf preying on my younger self with all the knowledge and power disparity would definitely make me suspect I'm dealing with someone who perhaps never respected me above having me as a possession, I'd maybe even feel obliged to go along to protect my previous self.
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Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 3:45am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Booming - window or no window is immaterial here, because Star Trek material science is rather undefined and acts according to the writing and budget since forever. It's kinda silly from our perspective, but it could very well be some transparent tritanium alloy or whatever. I just wanted to point out that there's some basic engineering principles involved that are applied in 20th Century to deal with those situations and being kinda into all things naval and military I was amazed that people here were that surprised by basic blast redirection.

Also, this classified thing is also pretty possible. In a 7k ship fleet stretching over thousands of lightyears it's not really that hard for a ship to drop out of public knowledge with a gag order. The US could have classified F117 if it sucked in some way and we would never find out about it, like no one else did know during the Have Blue phase of the project or Beast of Kandahar which did it's thing before getting snatched by Iranians with nothing more but silly sounding rumours about something something flying out at night.

Basically, what I'm arguing here is that some stuff that gets criticised is kinda directly lifted from various real life examples. There's so many problems in this finale that blast doors doing blast door things and a navy successfully classifying stuff about a ship are the least of our worries.
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Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 9:52pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow


How exactly is redoing stories genius? I mean, I do art for living ( TV related ), and I just can't for the life of me get why would retracing stuff this closely be anything else but ( most politely put ) derivative. Is it really the case that Trek told ALL the possible stories that could happen to people serving on a starship? I don't think so. For 20 years of hindsight and $7 mil a pop there is painfully little innovation or will to move on. Why can't the TNG nod stay on the visual trappings and the whole ensemble structure? Would Orville suck if they kept the visual language of TNG and threw away the script books? With cancellation looming I am getting more and more pissed off with old Trek inertia that the show seems to have caught by hiring everyone and their dog from those days and letting them do the same thing yet another time, even though the last two shows doing the same recipe pretty much killed TV Trek for 15 years? You can do TNG type show, without reducing a great ensemble to a hotel cover band doing 80s AOR covers.

Problems with Discovery and Last Jedi aren't new stories, but deeply deeply flawed execution, from the writing room to the cutting room.
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Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 8:44pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

I'm just gonna talk about the blast door thing. You guys familiar with M1 Abrams tank, designed through the 70s and fielded through the 80s and up to this day? It keeps it's ammo in turret bustle which has blast doors that separate the ammo from the crew compartment while the roof is made in such way that if something penetrates the ammo storage the blast doors protect the crew and help explosion go upwards and not incinerate people in fighting compartment. Is it so far fetched that similar design principle is used in starships with outer skin configured to vent the internal explosions out so they don't crisp the crew?

Also, it's not only about the material, it's about how the whole thing ties into the overall hull construction and there is usually some plan involved with dealing with various types of damage, be it concussion, blast or penetration borne out of incessant testing. I suppose that blast doors are integrated into strength decks ( or whatever is equivalent on starships ). Basically, you can't build an invincible Abrams out of it's blast compartment doors.
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Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 1:40pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Sanctuary

Weren't Klingons droning about cultural preservation in face of Federation since like forever? From Kruge to Chang and onwards, forever dreading that moment when they'll feel the urge to settle down on some nice farm world with Federation flag waving in the wind above them.
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Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 11:01am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Sanctuary


By no means I'm against measuring the two shows against each other, what I'm against is entrenched war of attrition which persists, with sides rarely conceding anything. It's like World War 1 with all the fun sucked out of it. You see, for me both shows cut both ways, with stuff that I find really well executed and stuff that I rather dislike.

Discovery, I appreciate it moving away from what by the mid run of Voyager became corporate exploitation and filling in some blanks along the way, however it suffers from myriad of problems in execution, with the the biggest problem for me being the direction and editing which take after modern Marvel stuff which I hate. I mean I could go on and on, but I'll reserve that for Disco threads :D

Orville on the other hand gives me comforting format that I grew up with and a very capable ensemble, but it follows the old playbook rather too closely and it seems to me like a lot of the old Trek crew there on the production/writing side of things just fell into their old habits. I grew up with TNG, watched all the shows while they aired, then in countless reruns, know everything by heart and I know I want some of that "same old same old" but not quite the same "same old" if you catch my drift? I guess that's why I like that whole Klyden/Bortus thing so much, how many strained alien marriages we had the chance to observe at length? Not many!

In the end, I tune in every week for both shows, because potential is there and occasionally it shines through. I'm pretty interested in what will they become and wish them long runs to realise that potential. Also, both shows running in parallel offers a nice possibility to sort of revise and discuss a lot of aspects of Trek, without getting the knives out :D
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Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 2:31am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Sanctuary

Man, this show. I guess it was okay? With Orville it's always the same for me, whatever originality it has and whatever a really good ensemble tries to do it sort of always crumbles for me with it's slavish following of TNG/VOY/DS9 formulas. I loved each of those, but after 500+ eps of the same schtick I know all the beats by heart. Hell most of the VOY run I was really pissed off at the production for just faxing it in, then ENT killed me inside right out of the gate. IMO Orville needs liberation from these chains to truly become a great show, it's being dragged down by all the baggage.

Does anyone else find Union a bit opportunistic? It's one of the more interesting aspects to me. They seem real quick to admit peoples or try to ally with them for immediate gain, be it tech or ships. Perhaps this Moclan thing will be the engine of change for their foreign policy. Less Machiavellism, more idealism. I hope they continue to run with this theme.

P.S. First time poster, long time reader, yadda yadda, nice to meet you all. Wish all the boring Disco vs. Orville flames would stop, because they are boring and not very well argumented, and life is not a zero sum game.
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Thu, Apr 4, 2019, 9:56pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Through the Valley of Shadows

Outstanding, other than the faces of horror from Pike and Burnham
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Fri, Feb 1, 2019, 1:52pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Point of Light


What you said.

The evolution-if one may call it that-of feedback for a given DISC episode is now following a familiar pattern.

A sprinkling of good reviews, while the alterkakers and ganstermachers - a group of about 10 people who bitch, moan and whine using language more tired than the show they hate so much would ever use-
get their creative hate juices flowing and hours later go on about how they hated last week's episode, how this one's even worse, and how next week's (which they can't wait to hate even more than they couldnt wait to hate this week') will be even more hate-worthy.

Perhaps these people do resent how the show is being written for 99.9999 percent of the world and not for them. It must be such a difficult burden to carry, this being imbued in the womb with perfect critical abilities that make whatever a dissenter says so insta-dismissable.

Neither liking nor disliking this show is proof that you are, or you are not, a true fan.

The haters are 100% entitled to Express their thoughts and to watch and hate, but their doing this does not make them "wrong," but nor does it exempt them from legitimate charges of cultural condescension displayed towards those who have the temerity to even slightly disagree with them (i.e., Jammer)
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Fri, Feb 1, 2019, 12:45pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Point of Light

Utter trash. I had to watch an episode of TOS afterward to make me forget it. I think I’m ok it Discovery gets canned now
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Sat, Jan 26, 2019, 9:08pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S1: Babel

I was enjoying the show, then I realised:

Where are the masks to prevent people breathing in the virus?
Where are the attempts to filter the air for the virus?

Do they know nothing about disease prevention ? They must be wanting to get Sick! Even in this “barbaric “ century we know that masks stop air- born viruses.

This blunder destroyed the whole episode for me. It is silly “, silly, silly! If they didn’t want to do these simple things, they should’ve had a line in the show saying that these preventative measures didn’t work. I need a statement like that makes this episode work for me.
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Sat, Jan 19, 2019, 1:46am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Brother

Firstly, the visuals in this episode were outstanding. The production quality of this tv show is movie level. On this note, they made Discovery so advanced looking that now they have to awkwardly figure out why Enterprise doesn’t look as good (hence the quote from the Ent crew member when she first beams aboard).

I really like Captain Pike. There’s a slight Kirk vibe to him and seeing him in the old uniform was satisfying.
He is already the highlight of season 2 for me.

I also like the new engineer - again feels like a Star Trek character , even a bit like Bones.

My biggest problem with this episode though, is that all the fancy visuals and action scenes covered up an episode where nothing really cerebral happens. The reveal of the mysterious blasts was promising , and I immediately wanted to know more about it. If you think about it, all that happened was that the crew travelled to the one location of the blasts, performed a rescue mission, and that’s it, we’re none the wiser as to what the phenomenon represents. This feels like half an episode of Trek in one episode. Even if these blasts are going to be part of a larger story arc throughout the season , we weren’t given more substance in this episode.

The reason for this is Burnam.

Too much time is spent on her storyline , and quite frankly, it’s not that great and neither is the character. I really feel that Burnam is holding this show back. Star Trek has never been about one character, all members of a cast have always had their moment in the spotlight, but never more important than the rest. Burnam does not even feel like a 24th century person, and quite frankly is really annoying.

Anyway , my feeling is that if DSC is going to become a great Trek show , we should have more balanced focus on characters , and the science, futurism, Federation and exploration should take center stage. If that happens this show will unlock its true potential.

If it continues to be “Tales of Burnam”, then it will continue to be frustrating to me.

And the elevator scene, why is there so much space inside a ship ? Does it make sense ?

1/4 stars
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Sakhal Nakhash
Wed, Jan 16, 2019, 1:17am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: A Matter of Time

I was always bothered about the loose end of what happens to the time pod at the end of the episode.
Then I just hand-waved it away by imagining that when it arrived in back in New Jersey in the 22nd century, the people who found it couldn't make sense of it, and eventually the government of that time took possession of it. Then in the 24th century it was sitting in a crate in some Starfleet warehouse known only to a select few.
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Tue, Jan 1, 2019, 7:06am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: In the Pale Moonlight

Tour de force for me.

I will watch this again, oh yes, and Garak is simply one of the best characters in all trek.

That final scene with him and Sisko .......

Oh for a modern version of DS9.
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Thavash Govender
Sun, Dec 30, 2018, 11:00pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Favor the Bold

The thing about Leetas noise, when I first watched it I thought that Rom was making it, and I already didn’t think much of Rom. But the second time she makes it, you can see it’s her, and then Rom wants to sacrifice his life for everyone - talk about perceptions changing immediately.

It’s also notable that in a powerhouse episode like this , we're talking about some irritating noise decades later.
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Dash Rendar
Fri, Nov 16, 2018, 2:00pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S7: Eye of the Beholder

Tim Lounibos, your open armed swan dive into the fuzzy light was impressive and I enjoyed it immensely. Thank you for that. You definitely knew what you had to do! There were a few stand out moments in this one, and that was definitely one of them. (Another was your on-screen girlfriend saying "It's not like him to take his own life." A wonderfully emotionally vacant line that made me chuckle.)

Also, It looks like botched collagen lip injections are still a thing in the 24th century.
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Dash Rendar
Wed, Nov 14, 2018, 6:37pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S7: Thine Own Self

So, Troy tells hologram Jordie to go crawl up a Jeffries tube and die and gets a commander pip for the jolly good effort. Right-o. Probably one of the most dog shit writing decisions of the series.
I really enjoyed the Data storyline though. All of that scientific methoding made me remember my school science experiments with a fondness. Wish they focused the whole episode on him.
I'd give the Data plot 3 stars, and the Troy plot -1, so I reckon Jammer's score is spot on.
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Dash Rendar
Fri, Oct 5, 2018, 6:23pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Chain of Command, Part I

Loved this one!

There were a few odd bits. The idea that a 60 year old man, the local GP and, well, I'll give them Worf, but only just (I mean, he's hardly subtle) are suddenly the best crack special ops team that the federation can muster is unbelievable, but not unenjoyable. Perhaps there's more to it than meets the eye! I'll have to wait and see in part 2! What a cliff hanger! It's been years and I can't remember how this story goes, which is great!

Jellico was a refreshing addition. I did get the feeling that Cohaagen had trouble remembering some of his lines, but by the by, I thought he gave the crew the good shaking that they needed. Seems like they've all been sat in the comfy chair way too long.
I'm sad that Riker was portrayed as such a whiner. That's 2 episodes in a row that the writers have muddied his good name. Got it done, he should have.
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Dash Rendar
Thu, Oct 4, 2018, 6:52pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: The Quality of Life

Not sure which I was hoping for most.. Seeing Rikers baby face again after all these years, or seeing Crusher as a brunette. Disappointed that neither happened!
I liked the episode. There seemed to be more of an authoritive tone to Data's voice and demeanour than usual. Particularly at the beginning when he was talking to Geordie.
Some interesting moments, although a little goofy. I think the story deals well with Data's logic in not sacrificing potential intelligent life forms who aren't given a choice in the matter to save the lives of Starfleet officers who have chosen a particularly dangerous career. I don't think many humans in those same circumstances would reach that same conclusion and that works for me.
I think Riker was unfairly used as a bit of a dullard to force the point forward.
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