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Startrekwatcher
Thu, Oct 22, 2020, 4:34am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: Far From Home

2 stars

A step down from the Premiere which was pretty meh itself. Just spun its wheels for an hour. The DIS crew I could care less about except Saru. This felt like filler. Amazing TNG had twenty six episodes a season and rarely did I feel like writers didn’t have a narrative urgency and point in the episodes they filmed. Yet with half as many episodes and a supposed serialized format the writers strain to tell interesting, intriguing, fresh and compelling stories. This was just taking up airspace. Nothing more. Worse yet it felt recycled. Been there. Been there done that better
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Startrekwatcher
Wed, Oct 21, 2020, 4:34am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: That Hope Is You, Part 1

Oh and this episode feels a lot like the third season premiere of ENT. Promised a revamp but more of the same. Average or so. Stock action with a filler plot on a trading post. Interesting teaser at the end that’s more interesting than the entirety of the episode itself

But unlike discovery the writers managed to later capitalize on the xindi arc to great affect

I don’t have Faith these writers can based on picard play-off , the klingon war arc and the red angel mysteey

What will happen is viewers will come up with more interesting story developments and sadly see more in the writers ideas than the writers do.
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Startrekwatcher
Wed, Oct 21, 2020, 4:28am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: That Hope Is You, Part 1

The sad truth is writers aren’t very good anymore. At least that’s my opinion. I’ve watched a lot of tv and despite protestations that this is the Golden Age for tv I disagree

Sure there are tons of shows to watch nowadays. Too many. Nobody can keep up. Sure they are more serialized than was the norm.....maybe. Because in the 80-90s soaps and primetime dramas on networks DID tell serialized season long arcs. And I’d argue they did them better because the serialized format they used wasn’t based on epic mystery boxes and playing games with the audience by limiting points of view or only showing a few cards they were holding

Writers nowadays are no good. They haven’t lived or lived very protected shallow lives and done no self reflection or deep thinking. So they have nothing to bring to the table when it comes to writing. Instead they rely on a relentless pacing and being propped up by ridiculously large VFX and production budgets

Gone are the days writers told a well crafted entertaining story. Trek was mostly entertaining. Not always deep that’s ok. As long as you were Entertained. But these new trek programs can’t even do that. The storytelling is so convoluted and payoffs so underwhelming you are left scratching your head why you even watched it

I’ve been rewatching 90s trek especially TNG and the dialog. The character moments. The vocabulary The discussions. The ideas are fantastic. You could tell Michael Piller or Melinda Snodgrass or Michael Wagner or Mauruce Hurley lived and were thinkers. It showed in their scripts. There was imagination. There was reflection at times.

Now shows don’t bother. You won’t find that here these days. Oh you might see lot of pretentious ideas or chatter but scratch or peel the surface and it’s a whole lotta nothing

I’m not saying bringing back writers like Melinda snodgrass or ira Behr or ron moore or brannon braga is necessarily the answer. I believe artistic ability peaks. You hit your high then it’s down hill from There. You can’t be as good a writers as when you were on fire in TNG or ds9. So I don’t think they could do that. But maybe spark something or guide the writers working on trek these days. Provide some sage advice. Give pointers on how to improve their scripts
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Startrekwatcher
Tue, Oct 20, 2020, 3:36pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

As far as rewatchabilty I find all five trek series rewatchable. I’ve seen most episodes 40-50 times.

I actually like the episodic format. The way it treats the viewer to a new story. You never knew what each episode was going to be about as opposed to an ongoing arc. It also allowed viewers to see how the episode would take shape and it forced the writers to provide a payoff rather than dragging it out which I think made for better payoffs in the episodic shows than the modern mystery box programs like lost, bsg and discovery/Picard
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Startrekwatcher
Tue, Oct 20, 2020, 3:30pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

I think DS9 is hard to get into because it jettisons for the most part the action adventure and high concept sci fi.

It is more dense and political a series. I enjoy DS9 but it’s increased reliance on romance and comedy hurts it. I don’t tune in to trek for episodes like Family business , Fascination, meridian, let he, change of heart, crossfire, Melora, second sight, looking for parmach in all the wrong places or Dax/Worf, Kira/Bareil, kira/shakaar, Rom/Leeta, moogie/Zek

Also some of the main cast is weak like dax and bashir. The more interesting characters on the show weren’t main players and only came along halfway through the series. Then when the series hit it stride with the dominion war it spun its wheels after occupation arc til
The the start of the final Season
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Buckbart
Tue, Oct 20, 2020, 1:44pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S7: Journey's End

I'm in the minority who like this one, despite some technical and story flaws. If you're thoroughly devoted to hating Wesley, then you don't get Eugene Wesley Roddenberry's reason for creating him in the first place. Others in the trekiverse have shifted planes, so that's okay too. And hey, he dated Ensign Lefler, so I'm jealous!

My big letdown here is Wesley's trite "thanks for everything" to Picard. Yeah, 47 minutes and all that jazz, but they could have carved out another 30 seconds for someone who is capable of evolving to really thank the one man mostly responsible for his opportunity to do that, and who essentially his surrogate father. THat was the weakest part.
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Buckbart
Tue, Oct 20, 2020, 1:40pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S7: Firstborn

Season 7 is about closing out everyone's stories, and I was really happy that they included James Sloyan in that mission. He is one of the most sympathetic and enjoyable guest actors in every role over three series. No prosthetics can hide his distinctive voice, much the way we recently enjoyed J.G. Hertzler in BD. If he'd started his tv career before 1970, I'd hope he would have been in TOS as well.
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Buckbart
Tue, Oct 20, 2020, 1:22pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S7: Journey's End

I'm in the minority who like this one, despite some technical and story flaws. If you're thoroughly devoted to hating Wesley, then you don't get Eugene Wesley Roddenberry's reason for creating him in the first place. Others in the trekiverse have shifted planes, so that's okay too.

My big letdown here is Wesley's trite "thanks for everything" to Picard. Yeah, 47 minutes and all that jazz, but they could have carved out another 30 seconds for someone who is capable of evolving to really thank the one man mostly responsible for his opportunity to do that, and who essentially his surrogate father. THat was the weakest part.
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Startrekwatcher
Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 5:35am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

To each their own.

I thought tos TNG and Ent had the most consistent and best first seasons. All three did a great job introducing their respective century and setting and introducing new races. The casts immediately clicked with me

Tos is a solid season but it is a tad uneven. Some good episodes and some not so good episodes

I like TNG best cause I enjoyed more episodes, the sense of awe and wonder, the action adventure mixed with high concept sci fi

I enjoyed Naked Now, Datalore , when the bough breaks, last outpost, where no one has gone before, the neutral zone, conspiracy, heart of glory, coming of age, 1100101. Even the lesser episodes I find watchable even code of honor. The only true weak episodes I thought there were big goodbye and we will always have paris bI won’t go into why I like these episodes. I commented in detail why in their respective episode threads

For all the bashing ENT takes I find it had the right idea and tone in season one. And more of a confidence in what it was doing than voyager or DS9 or Kurtzman “trek”. It told simple standalone stories from the perspective of a novice crew experiencing what other crews saw as commonplace. The stories were simple. Some recycled. But held my attention and were entertaining—broken bow, fight or flight, Andorian incident, civilization, breaking the ice, cold fromt, fortunate son, dear doctor, shuttlepod one, detained, acquisition, fallen hero. I appreciated that things were small and intimate. The most epic it got was with the Temporal Cold War. While TcW would lose its center here it was at its most eerie and intriguing. I think of they kept doing this in season two but punched up the plot and introduced more ToS aliens even as just aliens of the week like on TNG it wouldn’t have gone off the rails as it did

Up until discovery and PIC I thought ds9 was worst freshman season Ds9 relied way too much on TNG speaking as a TNG fan. A lot of stories were awful and could barely sit through—the storyteller, the forsaken, battle lines, of wishes were horses, q-less, move along home, personae etc

I do finding myself enjoying it more now than originally and in retrospective its first season truly felt faithful to the idea of an outpost on the unexplored wild frontier. After the first season it felt like Ds9 was in the middle of well explored space surrounded by well knowns. It did have some good standalones in the vein of TNG—the passengee, Babel, a man alone, past prologue, dax, vortex, and its season finale was strong and made the bajorans and prophets very mysterious and alien. Sadly as the series went on that mystique was lost which was a disappointment

Voyager was mediocre. It had an excellent pilot. One of the best trek episodes ever. But then that sense of wonder and strangeness was rarely experienced rest of the season. Lot of mediocre episodes like the cloud, Jetrel, learning curve to name a few. I will say the ensemble and the characters were at their best here before everyone but janeway seven and the Doctor had their characters assassinated or reduce to cyphers

There were some good episodes like the phage, time and again, state of flux,, faces. And I thought the Vidiians was one of the best new trek races conceived. But in season ones favor, due to Michael
Piller being involved it and season two felt the most trek like of voyagers seasons which was a good thing even of writing hit or miss

Discovery was just a hot mess. Unlikeable characters, convoluted storyline, dramatically flaccid klingon war. Mediocre payoff

Picard started out with some promise but by the end all the good elements introduced in the beginning were squandered in such a criminal fashion, the Borg, a possible tie between Borg origin and Romulans, Seven of Nine. Hugh treated like a plot device unceremoniously killed off by the demands of needing a shocking demise. An abrupt and underwhelming season finale which couldn’t make up its mind whether it wanted to say something about the essential ness of mortality and dying via Data’s death scene only to be undermined by a most un Picard like decision to chest death in an artificial body. Totally gutting whatever point the writers were trying to make as well as wasting what could have been a series spanning arc surrounding Picard’s final days years and saying goodbye to those in his life along the way ievTNG cameos
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Matthew Martin
Sat, Oct 17, 2020, 12:13pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: That Hope Is You, Part 1

This isn’t Star Trek, but it’s not even good “generic” sci-fi either. It reminds of a 1950s sci-fi pulp novel: It’s cheesy, with little story, nothing but action, a random monster attack, etc. All it needs is needless cleavage and a $0.99 price sticker on the cover.
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Matthew Martin
Sat, Oct 17, 2020, 12:12pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: That Hope Is You, Part 1

Michael remains a frustrating protagonist. She wins every fight, solves every problem, knows every detail, convinces every skeptic. It’s all so tiresome and boring.
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Matthew Martin
Sat, Oct 17, 2020, 12:01pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: That Hope Is You, Part 1

My problem---admittedly, after only one episode---is that the fundamental problem I have with the show hasn't improved: It's still just dumb schlock. TNG turned the corner because the writing improved. Michael Pillar became the showrunner and said: "This show is about our characters. Every plot is about how it relates to what our characters are going through that week." That internal focus on the half-dozen characters at the heart of the show is what turned so many good "sci-fi ideas" into great "Star Trek episodes."

Discovery hasn't done that. Instead, they're trying to fix the show's fundamental problems by putting band-aids on the bleeding gashes.

Going to the future doesn't change the writing. Adding another side-character doesn't change the writing. Splitting up the crew doesn't change the writing. If anything, the changes that began in season three are only going to exacerbate the core problems I have with the show. Going to the future is a catch-22 problem that will haunt the show from here on out (or until the writers change their minds again and take them back to the past)...

Moving the show to the future is very different from the time jump done in TNG. That was a two-generation leap. Dr. McCoy was in the first episode for crying out loud. Spock showed up for a big two-parter. This isn't a couple generations; Discovery has jumped forward over seven-hundred years. TNG's small jump meant they were able to reset a lot of TOS norms and show off some new tech without everything looking too different.

Discovery's third season is so far ahead in the future, the show is stuck in a catch-22...

Everything is either SO advanced that nothing looks or feels like Star Trek. Do that, and you might as well be a different sci-fi franchise.

OR

Everything is still more or less the Star Trek tech as we've known it, but for a few cosmetic changes, in which case the time jump is pointless.

Discovery seems to be hoping to try a third option: The setting might as well be a different sci-fi universe, but the tech isn't all that different from what we're used to in the old shows. How can that be? Well they're explaining it away by saying there was a galactic-wide apocalyptic event. So that's what Star Trek is now: Mad Max in space. And with that comes the big revelation in episode one: The Federation is basically gone.

And there it is, the evidence I need to know that nuTrek has not learned it's lesson about what makes Star Trek (when done right) so special:

The fundamental notion of Star Trek is that the future is bright. Its aspirational. That's the point. Take that away and you're left with a ship without a rudder. That's why these new shows all feel so aimless. Their cynical, and when they're not cyncial their confused about why they're supposed to be optimistic. It's like building a house without a foundation. You can raise the walls and put a roof on top; from a distance it looks like a house, but all it takes is a stiff breeze and the whole thing collapses.
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Startrekwatcher
Sat, Oct 17, 2020, 7:34am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

Best to worst
TNG
TOS
ENT
VOY
DS9



PIC
DIS
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Artymiss
Fri, Oct 16, 2020, 9:53am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: That Hope Is You, Part 1

@Tommy D
It was amazing scenery. I think it's Iceland.
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Startrekwatcher
Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 6:49am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S3: That Hope Is You, Part 1

Whatever promise there may or may not be in furst episode or two. This season will implode just like Picard and the first two seasons did It will be a bit convoluted mess. Mystery box initially draws you in with what happened to the Federation, will thriw in dome gratuitous excessive namedropping that really isn’t brought in in an organic way (as opposed to organic es the Reeves-Stevenses did in the ENT Vulcan trilogy

It’ll be fast paced. Michael will be only character focused on. With a lukewarm forced romance she will have but no will care about.

Afterall these are the same writers. Why expect some change fromThe tepid writing style. It’s amazing how Stidios will guve huge amounts of money to hacks who waste it on make up, costumes VFX to glam up mediocre series. Michael Piller did more with less and had to produce 26 hours season after season yet produced a consistently entertaining series with TNG. Or the old vanguard with TOS

But producers/writers these days have to do half as many episodes with far less time restrainys s and a whole lotta money and consistently turn iyt nice looking crap
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Buckbart
Tue, Oct 13, 2020, 11:07am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S4: Indiscretion

I can get past the stick-in-the-butt seen for two reasons. One is the depth that’s added to Ducat’s character, because no one is truly good or truly evil; we are all shades of gray. The second is the introduction of Ziyal. She is a fascinating character, with grounding in two worlds and a place in neither. Her story arc enriched the DS9 story, and she was always played sympathetically and convincingly by Ms. Batten, Middendorf, and Smith. Ziyal was well-written too, because not every character could survive three actors, prosthetics or not.
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Buckbart
Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 2:08pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Birthright, Part II

My favorite bit of this one is Worf explaining to Picard, a man he respects probably more than anyone alive, that the information was bogus. He had to put his word above his respect, and it had to be a wrenching moment for him.

But Picard’s smile and simple, “I understand,” makes you wonder just how much he does understand. It’s left to wonder, as it should be.
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Startrekwatcher
Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 6:33am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

I don’t know why people are arguing. All of Trek with Abrams and Kurtzman has been utter shit. Incoherent. ADD pacing, laying on gratuitous namedropping with no subtlety or organic integration to story itself, convoluted storytelling, low brow humor.

Even at its worst VOYAGER and ENT were light years ahead of PIC, LD, DiS
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buckbart
Tue, Oct 6, 2020, 1:57pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: The Inner Light

Doesn't matter how many times I watch this, every time Meribor bends down and says, "You know about it father. You've already seen it," it tears my heart out and breaks me down. One of the best hours of television - ever.
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Startrekwatcher
Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 1:16pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

Tomalak, I felt season six was when the shoe first started showing its age

Michael Piller left jeri Taylor in charge who was a weak showrunner(look at TNG season six, seven and voyager tail end of season 1 and start of season
2, then season 3)

Season six decreased the number of outside story ideas and scripts leading to what I would consider a bad thing

The season felt like it loss the urgency and sense of purpose it had in the prior five seasons. Even the actors felt like they had gotten too comfortable and it hurt the show

I thought the number of bad episodes went up dramatically-fluff like Fistiful of Datas, Rightful Heir, Realm of Fear, True Q, Lessons, , the Birthright two parter to name a few

It just felt very different and whenever I do a rewatch I find myself skipping more episodes
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Startrekwatcher
Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 3:35am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

I haven’t watched nor intend to watch Lower decks it’s probably as shitty as DIS and PIC but I just wanted to step in and defend the first season of TNG. I think it’s vastly underrated.

It has a wonderful sense of the unknown and exploration. It does a good job of introducing and giving the audience a feel for the 24th century There’s a lot of good to great episodes—conspiracy, the neutral zone, Datalore, 1101001, arsenal of freedom, skin of evil, last outpost, naked now, heart of glory, home soil.

I think people are far too hard on it. I think season two is weaker but I do find I enjoy seasons 1-5 the best overall and have the largest concentration of highly rewatchable and entertaining episodes
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Startrekwatcher
Mon, Jul 27, 2020, 9:58pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S7: Unimatrix Zero, Part II

Just to counter some nitpicks Jammer has

The virus they released was a Borg computer program as evidenced by the graphics in sickbay in part I. So I do t have an issue that a borg program could be released undetected or unchallenged I also assume for Torres to be able to have it on Her person it just have been stored in some Borg tech implanted in her before going on the mission

As far as Tuvok. Yes you’d think he would be last person to succumb to the collective give. His mental discipline but you also have to remember Vulcans are telepaths so I’m sure that made him
More susceptible to the collective
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Matthew Martin
Tue, Jul 21, 2020, 12:55pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

I understand time is limited and I don't blame you a bit if you skip over this one. I probably will do the same.

That said, I would LOVE to see you go back and review The Expanse!
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Startrekwatcher
Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 9:42pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

Revolution, Andromeda and helix weren’t good either

I know some people love The Orville but for all the talk of it being an love letter to TNG-which is my favorite Trek series and may be my favorite show period-I find it to be an insult to TNG. To riff on a famous quote—I know TNG and the Orville is no TNG. The writing is bad. The humor is low brow and cringeworthy
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Startrekwatcher
Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 9:33pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

I watched the first season of The Expanse and wasn’t much feeling it

Honestly I’ve not been impressed by most sff since this for last 20 years

Most of it follows the mystery box format which I can’t stand and just fails miserably at holding my attention—Vanished,Daybreak, Surface, Twelve Monkeys, Invasion, The 4400, Under the Dome, The Event, Fringe, Flash Forward, manifest, V 2.0, westworld , Star Trek discovery, Star Trek picard

The rest wasn’t very good either-star gate Atlantis, painkiller jane, the lost room miniseries , flashGordon reboot, Caprica, humans, the x files reboot, ascension miniseries

About the only ones I’d recommend as far as sff would be Jericho, sarah Connor chronicles, supernatural seasons 1-5 only, NuBSG’s first season and portions of season two, Enterprise season 1(really underrated) the xindi arc and season four. And Lost even though the mystery box format needs to go away permanently at least here it was fresh and seasons 1 and 3-5 were pretty entertaining
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