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Lizzy DataLover
Wed, May 22, 2019, 3:29pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: The Inner Light

@Peter G.

Thank you for your thoughts I believe they have given me a better perspective on the matter. I just always thought it was like he had literally just experienced a thirty year gap from his regular life and would have a hard time readjusting to the Enterprise. And then I thought about all the future episodes where someone mentions a past event from a previous season and laughed to myself, thinking (as Picard) "oh, you mean the Farpoint mission? Oh sure! It's been three decades, but I definitely have a very clear memory of that day." But your explanation makes more sense.
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Lizzy DataLover
Wed, May 22, 2019, 2:54pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: The Inner Light

I'm just gonna come out and say it, I never loved this episode as much as everyone else seems to. Don't get me wrong, I understand the appeal and it is a good episode, I was just never a huge Picard fan. But mostly the problem for me was that there's this plot hole type thing which has always bothered me. Allow me to explain:

When Captain Picard wakes up from his journey, everyone tells him what happened and he explains what he experienced and all is well correct? But my problem is... how in the world does he still remember these people?? I know they're his friends and they've served together for a while now, but remember, he spent 30 years on that planet. I know it hasn't actually been that long, but for him it has. He's just woken up from a literal lifetime of experiences and he's like "oh hey everybody, it's nice to see you all again. Welp, I'm off to play my new flute." When he really should have been like "oh, where am I? *gasp* Beverly? Beverly Crusher is it really you? You're just as beautiful as all those years ago. *gasp* NUMBER ONE! it's been so long! Such a good officer.. *gasp* DATA! my old friend! You're even more human than I remember." *looks around for a good ten minutes absorbing everything* "I'm finally home.." Seriously this was just odd to me. I mean come on dude it's been 30 YEARS and he acts like he just woke up from a freaking nap! *which he did, but again, he doesn't know that.* It would be like trying to remember all your old high school friends from back in the day. He'd have the whole nostalgia feelin' going on. I don't know. This has just always bothered me. You'd think Starfleet would at least have him go thru some tests or something to make sure he still remembers what everything is and what it does. But this is just my honest opinion.

All in all a good episode and I don't mean to stomp on it, I just hate plot holes as much as every other true fan. Please forgive. :)

Also I read Luke's comments from years ago and I have to sort of agree with some of the things he said. It really would have better if they had just asked Picard if he wanted to experience that life. But whatever. And I didn't read all the other comments *coz there are a lot* but if someone has already addressed the issue I brought up earlier then I'll be sure to ponder their thoughts. Thank you for not hating me. ^-^
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Casey Argall
Mon, May 20, 2019, 8:07pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S4: Rejoined

Trills are parasites and would never gain entry to the federation.
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Alcoremor
Mon, May 20, 2019, 3:32pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Mertov

The book about the aborted Phase II series is definitely worth a read (not to the detriment of graduate studies lol; speaking of studies, I got through many a lonely night in college through reading it and can't recommend it enough). Several of the proposed stories became TNG episodes, which you already may know. I think the Reeves-Strevensens, the authors, subsequently wrote at least one episode of Enterprise.
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Lizzy DataLover
Sun, May 19, 2019, 11:04pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S7: Parallels

Also them blue eyes on Data. Lol. ^-^
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Lizzy DataLover
Sun, May 19, 2019, 11:00pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S7: Parallels

A universe where Guinan is captain of the Enterprise, Geordi and Data are a couple, Tasha Yar lived thru Armus only to be killed by Nagilum, (sparing poor Mr. Innocent Redshirt) Picard married Beverly and had to *shudder* adopt Wesley, using a holoemitter like the Doctor's they brought Minuet off the holodeck and she and Riker are in their own jazz band, Data dyed his hair mint blue for a new look, Deanna is SUPER modest and always wears very heavy sweaters, Wesley had a *not so accidental* accident and now he's paralyzed in a wheelchair, Worf and K'ehleyr are married with eight children, ect, ect.
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Lizzy DataLover
Sun, May 19, 2019, 9:47pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S7: Force of Nature

A rather dull episode. But being a HUGE Data fangirl, I enjoyed the filler with him trying to train Spot the transgender cat.

"Geordi, I cannot stun my cat." Lol!!
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Lizzy DataLover
Sun, May 19, 2019, 2:24pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S2: Elementary, Dear Data

@Artymiss

Yes, they were trying to recreate the Bones/Spock dynamic but for me they failed miserably.

And as I told Booming, even if Data can't be hurt on the same emotional level as we can, that certainly doesn't give Pulaski the right to disrespect him so much. And besides, I think we've seen time and again that Data sometimes can be wounded, maybe not entirely in the same way, but enough to where being looked at as a mere machine is unpleasant and not something he enjoys contemplating. I tend to defend him passionately on this issue mainly because he was a good person, and did not deserve the unfair treatment he received from Pulaski.

That is why I very much prefer Beverly, despite being so underused in storytelling it wasn't even funny. But to me, Pulaski was the bland one, because all I got from her character was prejudice and stubbornness which I didn't enjoy watching.
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Lizzy DataLover
Sun, May 19, 2019, 2:54am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S2: Elementary, Dear Data

@Booming

Ah, we meet again. I do apologize for my potty mouth but you know how passionate I become.

Also dude even if Data doesn't have emotions, (which I for one am on the fence about) that doesn't mean it's okay for Pulaski to just stomp all over him! And my point about Moriarty is that if she really doesn't place much value on artifical intelligence then why is she so comfortable around a hologram, rather than an actual, physical being? I just will never understand her.

Which is why I am more than thankful they brought back Dr. Crusher. She may have been underused, but at least she was nice.
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Lizzy DataLover
Sun, May 19, 2019, 1:46am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S2: Elementary, Dear Data

I enjoyed this episode but ugh. Too much Pulaski. She managed to insult Data at least twenty times within the first ten minutes of the ep. And she was grossly wrong about everything she said too. No, Data would not "short circuit" if he had to solve a real mystery, he does it almost every day when he's on duty. And furthermore, I'd like to point out why Pulaski being on the show longer would not have been very appealing; having her around as a constant hamper on Data's quest for humanity would have ruined every episode involving his arc. He needs friends who encourage him like Geordi or Picard, not this bitch.

Worst part overall:
Pulaski seems perfectly comfortable around Moriarty, the douchebag hologram who kidnapped her; (she actually seemed kinda flirty) and yet she treats Data like shit, the sentient android who is nothing but kind and polite to her, even tho he should be flippin' her off. Ridiculous.

Also, am I the only one who noticed how Geordi sounds like he's got a cold?? Lol
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alcoremor
Sat, May 18, 2019, 4:30pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@mertov
"Fans like you (and that would be the singular "you," not the group for which you appear to be elected the spokesman) or I don't get to decide what is in the Star Trek ethos. We are not that important."

I like this comment. As Nicholas Meyer has said, "Art is not a democracy. It's a dictatorship." And as the late movie critic Pauline Kael said about Mike Nichols' direction of The Graduate, "Nichols lets the audience direct him. This is demagoguery in the arts."

If a show is flawed, let's focus on the flaws, without using the royal we's (not to mention the strident tone and ad hominem attacks, as if to simplly disagree with someone is to insult the core of their existence) and the ad hominem attacks, disguised as "direct responses to arguments, head-on,") and thus implicitly putting ourselves on the side of Those With Taste and Culture and Superior Morality (if there is a common thread running through all Star Trek shows, it's that Those With Taste and Culture and Superior Morality do not facilitate discussion; they stifle it).

Let's focus on why we like what we like and why we don't like what we don't, without resorting to, "Well, it's not Star Trek." People make that assertion all of the time - some cleverly, some with fancy language, and some more brusquely, but in the end that is all it is. An assertion, not an argument. I could argue, for example, that "Shades of Gray," the last episode of season 2, showed as much contempt for Trek audiences as anything Trek has ever put out. But, to make that argument as opposed to just throwing the phrase out there, I'd need to, at a minimum:

1. Comment on the quality of the script and direction and production values of that episode;
2. Look for any comments those involved in the making of it have provided (more than once, the creators have been candid with us, a la Brannon Braga's criique of "Threshold");
3. Put my cards on the table about what I found insulting. I generally find clip shows to be indicative of lazy writing, whether or no they are the product of Writers' Strikes. I'd have to go further, though, and say why I found that PARTICULAR episode to be the product of lazy writing; and (among many others)
4. Make an assessment as to what entertaiment value, if any, the episode holds.

(Even these four factors involve, ultimately, expressions of opinions - just not on the most base and reductive level).

Assertions are hide-the-ball value judgments, and those making the assertion won't bring their biases to the fore. Assertions are crude expressions of belief - and beliefs, I try to remind myself, are beliefs precisely because they are not facts. Trying to make an argument involves trying to think before speaking. For me, that often isn't easy, but I've found that if I have something I want to share with others that I want these others to not dismiss out of hand, it's the only way to go.

Like you, I also was alive and cognizant when the criticisms of TNG and subsequent iterations were made. To determine whether these criticisms were different in both degree and kind than those leveled against DSC, one must first actually read the criticisms, or at least attempt to gain knowledge about them. Criticism against Trek not being "Star Trek" have been with us since time immemorial.

There is a wonderful book that was written in the '90s: "Star Trek : The Making of the Lost Series by Judith Reeves-Stevens and Garfield Reeves-Stevens." This book was a behind-the-scenes-look at the '70s "Star Trek Phase II" series that never was (but instead was ultimately was the basis for The Motion Picture). The book recounts how the producers' and Leonard Nimoy's decision to have Spock be featured on only 2 out of every 13 episodes (I believe that was the number) led to some pre-emptively dismissing the show as not "Star Trek."

Some things never change.
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Alcoremor
Fri, May 17, 2019, 9:01am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Jammer

You are welcome!

@JohnTY

I tagged you because I agree with you!! Sorry for any confusion.

@OmicronThetaDeltaPhi

Thanks for your message!
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spinalatte
Fri, May 17, 2019, 6:06am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

Well, it’s official. The new Picard show is called... (get ready to be shocked) Star Trek: Picard. I could’ve sworn Jammer’s been calling it this for months already.
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Lizzy DataLover
Thu, May 16, 2019, 4:46pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S2: The Child

You are all making very good points I just hate it when people talk crap about Data. He's such a wonderful character, and to me he just seems like such a wonderful person. Every time some dumb jerky extra comes on the show and gives him *that look* I just get soooooooo pissed off. It's like, whhhhyyyyyyyyy????

I know I'm getting emotional here. But I seriously think that there is real potential in who Data is, and what could soon become him in our actual future.

Also is it too late to change my username to Data Got The feels?? Lol
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Lizzy DataLover
Thu, May 16, 2019, 12:00pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S2: The Child

@OmicronThetaDeltaPhi

I do see your point and I'm glad you're on my side. Thank you for defending Data in my absence!!

@Booming

How dare you call him an "it". How dare you. Hoooow dare you. You're worse than Pulaski. I am no longer going to acknowledge you on this board.

And this is Star Trek man! Anyone can be alive if they want to be! HOPE FOR THE FUTURE!!!!
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Lizzy DataLover
Wed, May 15, 2019, 3:07pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S2: The Child

Also, commenting on what Chrome said, I would like to say that I do understand how one might be skeptical in this situation, but there is a difference between being skeptical and being flat out disrespectful. Data is an officer, and a darn good one at that, a member of the team, and is considered sentient and even *alive* (as his service record supposedly states) by Starfleet. So going in with a closed mind, but willing to explore his possibilities would have been much more tolerable than the way Pulaski basically snorts at Data and gives him such a holier than thou attitude all the time.

I really just don't appreciate the rude disrespectful and frankly unprofessional manner she presents to him. Always spewing "oh God, not this *thing* again" under her breath constantly. (Although she actually just said it all straight to his face which was far worse.)
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Lizzy DataLover
Wed, May 15, 2019, 2:38pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S2: The Child

@OmicronThetaDeltaPhi

Awesome name by the way. It's true that Data is obviously sentient and sapient based on the way he acts and integrates himself into society and the relationships he has with others. But I for one would like to think he is more than just a self aware collection of circuits and sub processors, and is truly the mechanical equivalent of a living human being with needs and feelings. Okay well I know the feelings part is kind of on shaky ground, but if you've seen all the Data episodes, then you know he's got a lot more going on than he believes. ;)

What's that Data? You say you can't feel anything? Ok sure I believe you. (Wink wink winkity wink)
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Lizzy DataLover
Wed, May 15, 2019, 1:24pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S2: The Child

@Chrome

I guess I do have to agree with everything you said. *mostly the nice things you said about Data* ;) and perhaps you're right if someone approached me and said they just created sentient artifical life I may want to see for myself. Siri and Alexa *no offense Charles I love them too* are obviously very different from Data and not entirely comparable in this situation, so presenting them may not be as impressive. But if you gave me someone as complex and human like as Data, I may be very well inclined to believe that perhaps there is something to the whole AI thing.

And you're right, we are meant to be on Data's side every step of the way, so I'm obviously more inclined to defend him than I might be in real life. But I have to say, that if the time ever does come when someone out there is able to create a being like him I will be eager to see the potential.

I just love Data so much I cant help but see him for the wonderfully kindhearted man he is! XD
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Lizzy DataLover
Wed, May 15, 2019, 10:13am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S2: The Child

My vote is also yes Dave. I just hope that I've gotten through to either Thomas or someone out there who doesn't want to believe in the power of Data. I also hope that if he's still listening we can agree to disagree on this one because I will keep fighting for Data until the end so this could go on forever. :)

Star Trek power!!
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Lizzy DataLover
Wed, May 15, 2019, 12:34am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S2: The Child

@Thomas

You said *if* he is an extremely complicated and intelligent computer. What if he's not? Then what? Is that so hard to believe? You really need to watch The Measure Of A Man. Because in that episode Captain Louvois says that these very questions are meant for saints and philosophers. Although I doubt even they could give us our answer. This is a *big* issue which we may never have the true answer to.

Although being the fighter I am, I would like to add another thing: you also compared Data to a computer that walks and talks and interacts with people without being aware of doing so. But Data is aware. He knows exactly who and what he is. He even aspires and even *desires* to improve himself and become more than whatever he truly is. And the same for his brother Lore, who is, basically, a very complex person with a very complex personality. He even holds malace towards his father for both condemning him to an existence that will always be questioned, *like right now* and for treating him like nothing more than a machine himself, by tearing him apart and leaving him behind. I dont know, sounds pretty alive to me.

You know you remind me a lot of Commander Maddox in that way, but everyone kinda hated that guy's guts so...
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Lizzy DataLover
Tue, May 14, 2019, 11:46pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S2: The Child

Whoops I meant upgrade not download. :P

But seriously dude why do you think that? Is it so hard to believe that maybe life is more than just being born flesh and blood? Giving Data the title of 'living status' does not mean that we, by comparison are anything less. In fact by inviting the possibility of Data being more than he supposedly is, actually means life is even more than just what you're made out of. Why should only organic beings be allowed to have life? I'm not saying that any old tricorder is alive and sentient, *although ya never know*;) I'm saying that if Data, a being with a positronic brain of all things, can be truly alive, then that means that life *is* more than just an arrangement of molecules and is something far greater, something much more mystical than we'll ever know.

And one more thing; Star Trek is a show about life and all its different forms, and exploring and learning to understand those different forms. So if this is truly how you believe then I question why you watch it.
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Lizzy DataLover
Tue, May 14, 2019, 11:18pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S2: The Child

@Thomas

The very fact that you said download Data from "a machine to a living thing" was the point I was trying to make about Pulaski. Data is already a living thing. At least IMO. I see life as the force that connects us all and integrates everything into existence. It does not matter whether one is organic or mechanical. *at least IMO.* I tried to make a similar point when posting about The Measure Of A Man.

Data is a living being entirely unique, and not necessarily describable by our standards for life. And his incredibly human qualities show that time and again. Every time I watch an episode I can plainly see that he is much more than just a computer with limbs, he is a life. And my problem is, that that just never seemed to click with Dr. Pulaski, at least not until much later. Everyone else on the Enterprise *with the exception of any rare moments of doubt* accepted him rather easily for who is was, rather than what. They talk to him like he is any other member of the crew. Pulaski however, treated him as if he were less. And she never gave herself one spare moment to believe that perhaps she could think of him as more than just an artifical imitation of man, but as an actual man. She simply ignored that possibility, telling herself 'now remember, he's artifical, you should make a big deal out of it' even at times when that wasn't something that really even mattered.

So you should really be questioning her belief in life, because it seems she is very close minded to the possibilities of what it could be.
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Lizzy DataLover
Tue, May 14, 2019, 9:02pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S2: The Child

@ Dave in MN

I'm so glad I have people on my side in this. You're right she is racist to Data. Which completely does not fit into the realm of Star Trek. Sure, McCoy gave Spock a hard time once and a while, but I think it was more of a "just remember you're not the God of logic or anything, you have frailties just like the rest of us" sort of way. Which Spock obviously didn't think of himself like that, but like all vulcans he knew he was somewhat superior to humans, even though he did have the same basic emotions and possible struggles as we do. So he was just trying to remind him of that, as I think most people were.

Dr. Pulaski on the other hand is snapping at Data in a "just remember you're place among humans. You're the tricorder, I'm the person, and don't you step out of that line" sort of way. And even if she eventually became more tolerable of him, *key word being tolerable* I think she still refused to see him entirely on the same level as everyone else she knew. When she called him "it" she apologized saying she wasn't used to working with non-living devices, which is one of the worst possible insults you could give Data because not only does it degrade him to the level of a thing, but it says that he has no life whatsoever, which at least would have been something.

I think that says it all right there on just how willing she is to accept that which is different. Which is what Star Trek was founded on, was it not?
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Lizzy DataLover
Mon, May 13, 2019, 10:42pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S4: The Augments

Btw the books are called Datalore. I couldn't resist. Hey what could be more perfect a name?? ;) just thought I'd let you know.
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Lizzy DataLover
Mon, May 13, 2019, 10:35pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S4: The Augments

I know these comments are like six years old but, I'm totally working on a novel (series actually) that is all about the Soong family! And it explains all kinds of stuff about them, including the tie ins and things that a couple of these commenters mentioned. Be warned :) they are kind of dark books, coz I got issues-but for anyone who is interested in the *true* origins of Data and Lore and they're ancestors, you will be pleased. Hey it may not be *necessarily* canon but it all depends on what you want to believe. ;) I went thru great effort to make sure the continuity was perfect, and it lined up with already established themes. Hopefully soon enough they will be available for your enjoyment! Just give me a little longer this is tough work. :P
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