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Fenn
Mon, Jan 6, 2020, 10:47pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S4: Hippocratic Oath

I'll admit, I spent most of this one getting mad at O'Brien. I *guess* it's roughly enough in character, given his track record of becoming prejudiced against, y'know, certain species. But this was a frustrating one to watch.

Goran'Agar has successfully got me interested in the Jem'Hadar, though. Was definitely invested by the time they left him alone on the planet -- though I expected, and hoped, that Bashir would take a blood sample just before leaving so work on the cure could continue off-world. Missed opportunity for the story and for the Federation. It seems like a glaring oversight -- Bashir even mentions that he *could* continue his work. And then forgets. Whoops! Hey Chief, any chance we could turn the runabout around?

B-plot seems to be relatively in tune with the A-plot in that they're both "planning-minded person sets something up that someone who favours a direct approach proceeds to blunder in and destroy". This means that it's similarly annoying to watch, and doesn't even have interesting Jem'Hadar stuff to redeem it. It does develop Worf and Odo's relationship at least?? I guess??

Also I'm choosing to interpret that whole "you wish Keiko was a man?" thing at the start as not "haha gay" but rather "Miles might actually be interested in a relationship with a man, though being married to a woman makes that difficult to come to terms with". Because if I can read this depressingly hetero-only future as something gayer in retrospect, then you bloody well bet I will.
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Fenn
Mon, Jan 6, 2020, 8:43pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S4: The Visitor

Yeah, I'm gonna echo what seems to be the prevailing sentiment here.

I've had a few happy cries at Star Trek episodes (it's odd, but "happy" seems to get me easier than "sad"). I've had the occasional tear from sad ones, too.

This is the first time Star Trek's left me sobbing uncontrollably, even after the credits have rolled.

I have nothing more to say. Top notch.
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Fenn
Sun, Jan 5, 2020, 11:30am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: Distant Voices

I'm usually a sucker for "weird" episodes like this, but this one could definitely be too "on the nose" at points. While I guess it works for Bashir's character that he's obsessively hunting down exactly who's playing what role, it felt clunky script-wise for it to literally spell out "*you* represent my confidence, and *you* represent my doubt, and *you*..."
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Fenn
Sun, Jan 5, 2020, 11:26am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: Explorers

I genuinely loved this one. It's the most I've ever liked Sisko, from his calm passion working on the interstellar sailship to all the excellent father-son scenes. Hell, I've definitely found Brooks' acting stilted at times, but he's all smooth sailing here.

(It's the beard. It's gotta be the beard. Source of his power, y'see.)

The visuals complement it so well, too. Those warm copper interiors! And the sight of a sailboat floating through the stars. It's genuinely beautiful, and the fireworks at the end just top it off.

I'll also say that, while I'm gleefully diving headfirst into DS9 (to the point where I haven't even been able to finish TNG S7; I've just lost interest in it now), this *does* remind me of something TNG has in spades that DS9 usually lacks: the spirit of exploration. The title's pretty unsubtle on that. It really instilled a sense of wonder in me, and to be honest, that's something TNG has done for me more than DS9.

But while for TNG the exploration tends to be grand voyages for the sake of the Federation *making* history, this is a small mission on a personal scale for the sake of *retreading* history. It focuses on its characters, as DS9 does best. I'll also point out the dialogue between Bashir and Lense at the end talking about how shallow her experience of the universe is when she's constantly on the move: take sample, move on. Suffice to say, there are advantages and disadvantages to both approaches.

Jamie Mann directly above me comments that it seems out of character for Sisko to suddenly be big on building a Bajoran sailboat; I disagree. Sisko has a history with shipbuilding, after all -- he was last stationed on the Utopia Planitia shipyards, and was personally involved with the building of the Defiant, a project he seems to have been just as passionate about as this (though this sailboat's a much more positive thing).

Downfalls I see in the episode: yes, there was a nagging thought in the back of my mind that it's probably a bit irresponsible for Sisko to be taking his son out on an ancient experimental vessel, but to be honest? I was too caught up in the beauty of it all to care. And one thing I see as a missed opportunity is a greater focus on Kira: while she gets one scene, enough to make it clear she's invested in what this voyage *means*, I wish there'd been more of her. I can't help wondering about an alternative version of this episode that has Jake stay behind and Kira coming aboard instead, following in the footsteps of her ancestors and proving their achievement centuries later. Hell, just having her have more involvement in the process would be nice: it's a Bajoran ship, not a human one. And it'd make the final scene with Gul Dukat all the sweeter. She deserves a bit of a gloat, especially at his expense. But then maybe the final scene as it is -- with the Sisko family -- is purer in tone for it, for not featuring the spiteful satisfaction Kira would bring.

One final note on the A-plot, because it seems I have a lot to talk about: DS9 often focuses on Bajoran religion, so it's nice to see something of Bajoran history instead -- and further back than just the occupation. The introduction of the Bajoran race way back in TNG's 'Ensign Ro' promised an age-old civilisation with a rich history stretching millennia behind Earth's. It's good to see -- and *feel* -- some of that ancient wonder.

I liked the B-plot, too. I was expecting not to -- I'll admit the above commenter isn't wrong in saying the intro is pretty much just "look! Boobs! Bashir likes boobs!", which *really* brought down my expectations (maybe that's part of why I liked everything that followed so much!) -- though the "GO AWAY" moment did get a laugh from me. But instead of the B-plot being Bashir's Quest To Get Laid (I mean, maybe he still does? but that ain't the main emotional drive we see), we instead get a focus on Bashir's insecurities that follows on neatly from what was established in 'Distant Voices' four episodes ago (was it really that recent? with the Mirrorverse excursion and the Garak two-parter it may as well have been a season). Not to mention the glorious scene of it being decidedly "not a synthale night" for him and O'Brien -- now that's *definitely* more in tune with O'Brien's sensibilities than the Garak-style lunch date Bashir attempted with him last ep! Complete with O'Brien's (drunken, but still) rather touching "not hate" confession. These two have come a long way.
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Fenn
Sun, Jan 5, 2020, 9:49am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: The Die Is Cast

Ahh, the beginning of this one where Bashir's trying and failing to have one of his Garak lunch dates with O'Brien... it's a sweet (and also hilarious) way of showing how much he misses the crafty old "tailor". Bashir needs his intellectual sparring *and* his simple fun.

As Jammer says, the torture scene is painful on even more levels than that of Chain of Command. Two lonely fish out of water with a desperate, conflicted need to return to their own "water", but knowing it can't be done without sacrificing the morality they've developed. For Odo, that's his confession. For Garak, that's the torture. It says a lot about Odo's strength of character that he understands this in Garak, even to the point of saving his life afterwards -- that the commonality they've discovered doesn't outweigh the absolute humiliation he's put him through. But I do love the cinematography of that final scene. Speaking to a blurred reflection in a mirror, not looking each other in the eye.

Breakfast with Odo, lunch with Bashir -- Garak's running out of meals in the day! Who's going to monopolise his dinnertimes? What about his chocolate-nibbling?
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Fenn
Fri, Jan 3, 2020, 9:58am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: Past Tense, Part I

@Gaius Maximus: interesting comment, and definitely helps put this in perspective for me.

I watched this one yesterday and did thoroughly enjoy it, but was wondering if it might be straying too close to the "Great Man" theory of history -- the oversimplified and thoroughly flawed "one person is responsible for this incredible change, and history would not be the same without them" that discounts complex causation. Popular media (with its focus on strong individual characters) falls victim to this all the time, and the entire known structure of life in the 24th century collapsing without Gabriel Bell would make this seem to be no exception. Why couldn't the breaking point for societal change happen at some other time? It seems that society was ripe for a positive response to a tragedy like this -- who says it couldn't have been some other tragedy?

But you make a compelling point about how there wasn't much time left for another tragedy like this -- at least, not before the great tragedy of Star Trek's 21st century. One major news event leads to increased social awareness, leads to a change in what's seen as publicly acceptable policy, leads to a shift in popular politics, and before you know it you've changed the landscape of what matters to the American people and who they vote in charge of deciding what happens -- who's deciding what happens for a crucial period of history. Good ol' butterfly effect.
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Fenn
Thu, Jan 2, 2020, 10:14pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: Heart of Stone

Favourite parts were Odo's name's backstory -- which speaks for itself -- and Nog explaining why he wants to join Starfleet, which just comes across as such a transformative moment for the character. Dammit, Nog is a joy here and he absolutely lit up the screen. Underrated moment: him getting right down to cataloguing the cargo bay, so damn happy about busywork because it's Starfleet busywork. And Rom growing a spine and supporting his son! I'd be the hundredth person in these comments saying the review does the B-plot an injustice, but dammit, it *does*.

(considering that previous episode though... I didn't mention this in my comment there, but I'll mention it now because oh boy, Starfleet Nog is REALLY gonna have to get better at having any sort of interaction with women. but hey, he's actively throwing away Ferengi values in joining Starfleet, I guess the groundwork's laid for improvement there as well)

The A-plot... I was thinking "god dammit this rapid-growing crystal thing is the most contrived plot", but then it turned out to be a contrived plot in-universe, so I guess there's that. Beyond getting another look at one of Odo's fellow Founders, plus Odo's anecdotes (gotta say, I loved the kayaking thing too), that was mostly just mediocre to me. Gimme more Nog, dammit.

Also, tiny thing: the little scene talking about that pregnant ensign was super sweet. I don't like sharing this personal info much, but I feel I gotta give context here: I'm a man who (for now) happens to be equipped with the organs required for pregnancy/birth, and I personally know a good few other men who have fathered their own children in that way. Living as a man *and* being able to birth your own child both can and *do* coexist for many men like me, but you'd be hard-pressed to find any non-"queer media" that features that respectfully. So, this scene: not something I expected at all, and honestly really refreshing. While of course they're talking about an alien here, the way the scene plays out is *extremely* wholesome and does feel so normal/natural. Left me grinning, honestly. I wanna see his baby shower now.
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Fenn
Thu, Jan 2, 2020, 7:31pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: Life Support

'When Kira hopes that replacing the rest of his brain may save him, Bashir tells her that he would simply be a machine without a spark of life. "He'd be dead. And I will have killed him." (One could even argue that this is an allegorical anti-euthanasia moment.)'

Huh? I can't wrap my head round this bit of the review. Bashir deliberately has Bareil die, instead of pursuing further medical intervention to extend his life but worsen his quality of life. Surely this is making the case *for* euthanasia, not against it.

I haven't really been fond of the character at the best of times, but ouch, watching his condition degrade over the course of the episode was painful. Sci-fi does have a rocky history with portraying technological augmentation of people -- all sorts of nonsense about "oh nooOOOOooo it makes us LESS HUMAN" -- but I feel the scenes here managed to avoid the pitfalls that I usually hate. This technology clearly *is* lesser than the Bajoran brain, and Bareil's capacity to experience the full spectrum of life is severely reduced.

Interested to see where Kai Winn proceeds from here. Rest in peace to that spark of progressivism in her religious cabinet. All hardline orthodox from here on out, huh?
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Fenn
Thu, Jan 2, 2020, 1:25pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: Fascination

This was a pretty clear Midsummer Night's Dream IN SPACE! to me, with Lwaxana as the unintentional Puck. But yeah, not much of a "Lwaxana episode" -- she was basically just there to provide the horny fuel that this episode ran on. Now other people in the universe understand what it's like to be as horny as she is! I love her final scene with Odo, though.

Overall, I feel I actually enjoyed this in the same nonsense way I enjoy The Naked Now (or, hell, that first DS9 Mirrorverse episode). It's completely off the rails, ridiculous in how horny it is, and yet somehow all the more fun for it. I've made up my mind on one thing, though: the less I see of Bareil (especially in sexual contexts), the better.

I also *noticed the music!* Music that's not just bland wallpaper or whatever nonsense Berman insisted on. What a wonderful world.

Couldn't tell whether Keiko and Miles were bickering *because* of the "altered state of mind" that everyone was being put into, or whether they were just genuinely mad at each other as themselves. Seems like it was all real.

I don't think their arguments in the episode were that bad to start off with -- I've honestly experienced similar with my partner, with whom I've been long-distance at various points. One partner stressed about wanting to make the very most of the brief time together, and the other being too tired to do very much at all -- that's definitely a conflict I've experienced.

And then they go to Quark's, and there's some nasty petty jabs from both sides there. But the reconciliation is a genuinely good one. Keiko originally gave up her job for Miles, so it's good to see that Miles is willing to offer the same in return.

Jake *really* needs some company his own age (apart from just Nog). House of Quark (and the closure of Keiko's school) established that almost all of the teenagers are gone from the station, and so... while I did feel weird about the pairing of Jake with Mardah, now that I consider it, she'd be basically the closest to him in age of any regular inhabitants of the station. Anyone closer to his age would probably also be of age to attend the school, and would therefore have already left.

Still don't think it's good for Jake to have been dating a twenty-year-old. Definitely a better option for him than fawning over Kira -- or rather "Nerys" -- but suffice to say, age gaps definitely matter at an age like this. The other dabo girls can be on-limits in a few seasons' time.

And knowing the IRL relationship the actors had around this time... Kira and Bashir being all over each other may not have required much acting. Found it kind of hilariously ridiculous when they weren't even capable of walking from one room to another without a break in the non-stop snogging.
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Fenn
Wed, Jan 1, 2020, 9:42pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: Meridian

I'd like to echo some of the previous comments saying I can't imagine giving this the same rating as Civil Defense. That one I'd rate 3 stars, easily -- though I don't really have much new or original to say about why.

This one? One star would be generous IMO.

I really don't know how I got through this. Jadzia's lover is quite possibly the least interesting man in existence. Talk about wooden, you could have Dax snog a log and I'd probably like it more. And you know he's not gonna stick around, and she's not gonna stick around *there*, so the Tragic Conclusion is... yeah, there wasn't really anything else to expect from that. The A-plot basically trudges straightforwardly forward until it reaches the boringly inevitable conclusion, with a brief enjoyable detour at Sisko and Dax's goodbye (honestly I wasn't entirely convinced by the acting there either, but it's better than the rest of this by comparison).

Meanwhile, the allegedly redeeming B-plot does get *some* laughs from me (Kira and Odo get good scenes together), but most of the time I'm too busy being skeeved out by it to laugh. It pretty much is Quark trying to get nude pics (sci-fi edition) from Kira without her knowledge/against her will, and I *do* see that as a clear violation of consent. Yeah, Quark's a bastard, but I really don't wanna have to watch this particular variety of bastardry. I know of more than enough of this going on IRL; it's tiresome there, and it's tiresome when it's broadcast on TV as comedy.
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Fenn
Wed, Jan 1, 2020, 5:43pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: The Abandoned

I'm not sure if this is something that's been shown before, but I spotted Sisko squeezing the baseball as if it's a stress ball here. It's an interesting touch re: physical expression of his mental state.
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Fenn
Wed, Jan 1, 2020, 11:36am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: Second Skin

I really appreciated Ghemor considering Kira family at the end -- they had a genuine bond to the point where each wants to save each other's life, and they filled family positions for each other that neither of them had had for a long time. The concept of found family is something that means a lot to me.

Various comments here amuse me and reassure me I'm not the only one finding the Cardassians attractive... though, as someone whose attractions swing any which way they please, it's definitely not just the women!

(Case in point: Garak's confidence when bluffing to the Cardassian ship, and in pulling off the rescue mission successfully. It makes him compelling as hell, that's for sure, and it's maybe almost even more than a little bit sexy...?)
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Fenn
Mon, Dec 30, 2019, 9:37pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: The House of Quark

This was a fantastic episode that I honestly wasn't expecting to be a fantastic episode. I'm really coming to love Quark's cleverness. I commented on the Maquis two-parter about how he adapts Ferengi business sense to Vulcan logic, and found that to be a fantastic scene for the merits of Ferengi culture in general. Here, though, he goes beyond just being defined as an excellent example of the Ferengi -- he gets a chance to be an excellent example of a *person*.

Now, I'm not saying he *isn't* very Ferengi in this episode. (Though even when he is, it's all positive -- looking through ledgers and rooting out the truth.) But in his speech on honour? No Rules of Acquisition there, no profit sought. He's working fully within Klingon culture there, and cutting to the heart of the charade in the process. Takes some serious lobes to keep a cool head with a bat'leth wielded in front of you. And it takes a hell of a shrewd thinker to find that loophole, to turn the situation on its head to get out of it. That's Quark.

Grilka is great, and great fun. Glad to see a prominent female Klingon who doesn't have one of those weird cleavage windows. Also, rows of Klingon warriors tapping confusedly on sci-fi calculators -- what a sight.

As for the Keiko plot, which seems to have attracted a whole lot of conversation above, I honestly found it pretty respectful on the whole. There were a few minor stumbles I noticed, and reading through the comments has given me more to think about, but my overall impression while watching? "Thank goodness, this is treating Keiko as an individual with her own life rather than just as the wife character attached to O'Brien. That's not something we get to see from her too often." I think that holds true despite whatever other aspects of it have been discussed.

Jon R above me does mention something that came to my mind during the episode, though. An arboretum on DS9 would be a lot of work -- it's not a single static object, like an oversized bouquet (in line with Bashir's comparison). But I think there's still a discernible difference between "hobby" and "career" in the Federation: a hobby is "personal passion and self-fulfilment" for their own sake, but I think another thing that distinguishes "career", specifically when botany's concerned, is doing it for the sake of advancing *everyone's* knowledge, not just your own. The words "personal" and "self" can still be involved, but a career goes beyond that.

Granted, it's still something of a blurry line, I won't disagree on that. (Hell, scientific research before modern times was often a "hobby" for people with enough money and leisure time to pursue it.) But I think the episode itself makes the distinction well enough:

BASHIR: You can't ask her to turn her profession into a hobby. Would you be satisfied just puttering around in a workshop making nano-circuit boards and playing with tricorders?
O'BRIEN: I suppose not.

O'Brien's job as Chief of Operations is vital to DS9. The station wouldn't function without him. A hobby would entertain him in ways that wouldn't really have much greater meaning, but his *profession* makes the station liveable for everyone on board. Going off that, *importance* is a key thing to consider. An arboretum would probably be a nice thing for DS9 to have, but it probably wouldn't be doing much to advance the field of botany.

The job O'Brien brings up to Keiko, on the other hand?

O'BRIEN: They've never surveyed these mountains. It's a very important expedition.

Now she gets the chance to be on the cutting edge. She gets to do things that have never been done before, to lead a team working toward the pursuit of knowledge. She gets her chance to be vitally important, not just doing arbitrary and largely pointless things to wile away her time.

I think that definitely has its appeal beyond puttering around in an arboretum.
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Fenn
Mon, Dec 30, 2019, 2:29pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: The Search, Part I

I can't emphasise enough how much this feels like the start of a new era. Not only does the Defiant give them more mobility than before, but the unified threat of the Dominion is something inescapable, something that it'll take far more than just an episode to face.

Part of me felt sad watching this -- as if the lower-stakes era of the show (where, while not all bright, it could still function as "comfort TV"). It feels like the tone has irreversibly changed. Not for the worse, and indeed I found this gripping; I'm excited to see where it goes. But it feels different. No doubt about that.

(My god, though, those Jem'Hadar ships! They look like they've got monstrous purple ribcages. I love 'em.)
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Fenn
Mon, Dec 30, 2019, 10:00am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: The Search, Part II

Also: I don't think we've ever seen Garak playing a role in the main ensemble before this (he's generally only had interactions with one main character at a time, usually the "dear Doctor"). It's a fun dynamic when he's helping everyone out, and I'd love to see more of that.
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Fenn
Mon, Dec 30, 2019, 9:53am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S3: The Search, Part II

I don't feel the "just a dream" ending is THAT bad (certainly not "drop to two stars" bad -- I'd give this a solid three). I enjoyed what I watched when I was watching it, and even in hindsight I enjoyed seeing what they did. I'll admit, though, that the penny dropped a little later for me (when Garak was shot my thoughts weren't "okay, none of this is real" but "he's 'only mostly dead', I presume" -- I only really twigged once they blew up the wormhole). And like MusicalTurtle above me, I *did* feel things were a little bit too convenient to be true around the beginning, when Sisko and Bashir are miraculously rescued and negotiations are in full swing, but I guess I got lulled into believing otherwise.

Garak's prominence here *is* strange and unfitting, given the twist. (Can't help wondering if the story was initially written to play out as real, then rewritten with the twist but without removing Garak.) In all other ways, though, Garak is wonderful, and I'm particularly fond of his scene with Sisko. The beautiful subtext: "you down for some shady shit?" "You'd better believe I'm down for some shady shit!" Points also to "I pretend to be their friend... and then I shoot you".

I have less to say about Odo's side of things than I thought I would. "It's sweet to see him so happy", "oh boy this looks like setup for some painfully divided loyalties for him", and also "so was that goopsex he was doing there with the lady one or what". Regardless, interested to see where this goes.
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Fenn
Sun, Dec 29, 2019, 12:40am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S2: The Collaborator

Also, interesting how they're greying Kai Opaka's morality now that she's... uh, out of the picture.

Wonder how that immortal war moon's working out for her!
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Fenn
Sun, Dec 29, 2019, 12:36am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S2: The Collaborator

I can't help wondering what advantage The Kai Formerly Known As Vedek Winn could possibly have seen in meeting with Sisko on DS9. Any notion of him accepting her offer to appear before the Assembly -- immediately, or at least within two days -- hinges on him either having zero knowledge of Bajoran current affairs, or being dense enough to not connect the politics to the surprise visit.

So what, then, is she even visiting him for? A thin smokescreen to legitimise her presence on the station is all I can think of. Other than that, the visit only serves to remind Sisko that yes: in case it wasn't clear, she's still a megalomaniac and still has all sorts of machinations underway. That sure is some breaking news, huh?
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Fenn
Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 9:57pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S2: Crossover

Well, the opening scene with Bashir back on his obnoxious over-eagerness is painful -- especially in contrast to the beauty of his quiet determination *last* ep. I guess they had to turn up the annoying to compensate.

(And then they punish him for it by forcing him to do ore processing for most of the episode. Are the writers trying to classically condition him out of obnoxiousness?)

I reckon this was a fun one. It's almost gleeful in how fucked-up it is -- though to be honest, Intendant Kira is largely the one responsible for that impression. And speaking of her... well, wow. It's not the leather that gets me so much as the way she pulls it off. Puts on a hell of a compelling performance, suffice to say.

I'm looking forward to seeing more Mirrorverse shenanigans. See whatever Sisko and Smiley are up to as space pirates or whatever (man, O'Brien is really the underdog star of this one, isn't he? obviously not as showy as Kira is, but then that's the point...!) Shame we got rid of Quark and Odo here -- but as for the latter, that was one hell of a special effect. Explodo.

Anyone feel that the way "Terran" gets pronounced here is suspiciously close to how the Ferengi pronounce "hu-man"? Got that same sort of disdain going on. Very different context though.
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Fenn
Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 12:28pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S7: Thine Own Self

@Chrome and Top Hat: whether the rise in popularity actually *is* connected to this episode or not, either way it's a pretty funny mental image to picture several thousand parents-to-be watching this not-particularly-memorable episode and thinking, as one: "yes! THAT's the name I'll give my child!"

Probably beats "Data" as a name, at least.
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Fenn
Fri, Dec 27, 2019, 10:36pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S2: The Wire

The Marquis two-parter brought with it a heightened political drama unlike anything DS9 had done before. The Wire does similarly in a different realm, bringing with it unprecedented drama on an interpersonal level instead of an interplanetary one. The entire episode (with emphasis on Garak feeling the full effects of withdrawal) is exceptionally well-acted. It's incredible what it can do with simply two actors in a room.

Had to scroll down to BoxyP's comment to find the observation I wanted to make -- about Garak very specifically casting himself ("Elim") as the only common thread in all of his stories. (His only other "named character" is, of course, the very real Enabran Tain. The fact that he *does* very much exist is the most obvious signifier of the truths to be found in Garak's stories. Just as he says, even the lies are true.)

On looking back, the truth about Elim makes the three lies into a bitingly bitter self-mocking narrative:

"Elim couldn't believe his eyes. He looked at me as if I were insane."

I can't copy-and-paste quote Andrew Robinson's performance on this line, but suffice to say it's clear on rewatch that he's both the Garak committing this action and the Elim in disbelieving horror at it. There's a real snarl to the way he says it. A clear intense resentment for whatever he might have done -- and disdain for the person he was to have done it.

"Elim destroyed me. Before I knew what was going on, I was sentenced to exile. And the irony is, I deserved it."

He really believes he's brought *himself* down. A similar case with the "Elim" of the first lie, who dies on Garak's command; he consistently tells the story of him dooming himself. And as for "deserving it"... he thought he was "insane" for doing what he did. Little wonder he felt he deserved it.
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Fenn
Fri, Dec 27, 2019, 9:00pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S2: The Maquis, Part II

In an excellent two-parter, it's surprisingly a Quark scene I like the most -- "the price of peace is at an all time low". I've not really known how I feel about that funny Ferengi fella so far, but his scene with Sakonna is a big push towards the positive for me. Vulcan logic and Ferengi... business sense(?) make for a strange juxtaposition on the surface, but the way he makes his pitch connects cross-culturally. Hell, it's not just a good Quark scene, it's a good scene for Trek's ethos in general. Bridging different species and cultures for the sake of peace.

It's also interesting to see Quark playing a vital role in something that doesn't actually concern him (or his profits) very much. And it's telling that he succeeds where Odo fails. Odo works on observation. Quark, as it's turning out, is much better at the psychological approach.
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Fenn
Thu, Dec 26, 2019, 3:23pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S2: Profit and Loss

@Nolan: too late I'm afraid, I've already managed to encounter spoilers on both of the change-ups that happen at those points (I'm intrigued by the S4 one and... anticipating the S7 one). Serves me right for hanging around fandom spaces when I'm not done with the series yet!
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Fenn
Thu, Dec 26, 2019, 12:50pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S2: Profit and Loss

When Natima made her sudden "actually I am madly in love with Quark" turn, I found myself seriously thinking: "did she sneak him into a holosuite when he was unconscious and leave him a fantasy Natima to distract him?"

Nope. No holosuite. Just bad.
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Fenn
Thu, Dec 26, 2019, 12:44pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S2: Blood Oath

I did a bit of a curiosity search on the ep's dialogue (thanks to chakoteya.net) to see how Jadzia describes herself. There's nothing equivalent to "I'm not Curzon", no such bold statements here. The closest she gets to inhabiting the Curzon identity is "I who *was* Curzon Dax". She consistently makes it clear: "Curzon's dead, but Dax is alive as part of me."

I guess with those language choices, then, the side she falls on in the episode Dax's debate is "not Curzon, but *was* Curzon".
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