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NoPoet
Wed, May 23, 2018, 4:37pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S1: Datalore

How utterly obnoxious that people would criticise Wesley, who was perfectly correct and the only one who showed any brains, in favour of the crew who were being utterly stupid. I mean, among everything else, just calling the first officer Riker is grossly out of character and rather disrespectful.

This was an extremely ham-fisted episode and it was weird to see early Data, as he is very different to the Data from season 3 onwards.
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borusa
Wed, May 23, 2018, 4:10pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: Half a Life

Pour on the shmalz, guys.
In Logan's Run we had a science fiction story about a society that imposes euthenasia at age 30.
There isn't any attempt to rationalise this convention in the movie for the obvious reason that this is simply an insane idea.
Unfortunately the writers of this episode have to try to present a rationale for a similar planetwide policy and fail miserably but quite understandably.

The only reason to end it all that I could see is that you would be in utter despair at your daughter's idiotic hairstyle-seriously-what were they thinking?

I am in the: This was a dreadful episode' camp.


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Spot81
Wed, May 23, 2018, 4:03pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Lessons

Can fully understand that. I just did not get the chance to get into
TOS in due time, first time i watched it must be like >2000.

And sorry...i dont mind old things...one if my favourite movies is
"12 angry men" but i just cant stand old TOS+TOS movies.

And it was not the thing in Germany that it was in the US.
So i simply find it cheap. Not much more to say...i tried to
watch TOS but i cant bring myself to like it.

I did not say anything about Nimoys depiction that is not true!
I think most of the Star Trek Actors did a great and underrated job.
Science fiction has a hard time attracting good actors....so.
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Chrome
Wed, May 23, 2018, 3:29pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Lessons

Wow, no respect for Nimoy’s depiction of Spock in two live TV shows and eight films? I can’t imagine the Vulcans ever staying on the franchise without him.
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Spot81
Wed, May 23, 2018, 2:56pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Lessons

Hi, Peter G.

(this is getting long....)
Most of this i can sign without a second thought.

Some things i would like to point out:

The Voyager cast for example, those where hit or miss.
Some of them made the most memorable Star Trek
portrayals. Tuvok as you said is one of my favourites too.
Tbh i think him the best Vulcan ever but i have to admit i never
watched TOS....i just cant stand it....it is too cheesy....too bad
production values even if i tell myself it is old.
(And from the bits i have seen from TOS i am not a Spock fan either.....)
I mean he (Spock) defined what a Vulcan has to be (from what he got from the writers)....so this is unfair from the start.

Everyone else had the chance to build of what he did.....but anyway...im born to late to love Spock sry....just can't get into TOS. I feel deeply ashamed. :)

I really would like to elaborate on Tuvok but i think it is suffice to say that i
would have made him main baddy in "Starship Mine".

May have prevented him from playing Tuvok later, so maybe the writers made the right choice. :) Tim Russ really is a great addition to the ST Universe.

Doc really confirms your Theory, he definetly made main (and i mean main....sry restofcast) because of his Performance. Just the same as Picard, just having an Episode with him as the main character makes for a great watch. And i also
heard he is a great guy at Conventions. :) Can not say much of that from Germany but i always liked those people who do not despise their
career-making Characters.....just think of yourself....despise the company
that helped you get succesful...thats not good manners...that is unprofessional.

Stop on that, new topic. :)

It is true, that most people (me included), have a totally distorted view at how those series are produced. On rewatches i always try to take it in as an objective
observer but that often fails. It is very intriguing to hear those things about the cast battling for Screentime and importance. I can very well imagine that.

Your Garak comparison is really a great example. That Character really made me like him over a couple seasons. But i think this would have been possible with
some of TNG's characters as well...sometimes they just don't get something
to work with.

Tasha, never liked her...never missed her, never was thrilled by her
reappearance. Hard to blame that on anyone...there is just nothing to
talk about.....maybe just the writers never gave her something to shine.

Nice discussion by the way, not used to such polite disagreements on the
internet. :-)




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Peter G.
Wed, May 23, 2018, 1:48pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Lessons

Hi Spot81,

Actually I think McFadden was rather attractive, more so than Sirtis. Although I do have to agree that a permanent Neela Darren would have been awesome. But that being said the writers for these shows usually get their cues from the actors involved. If what they see is exciting they'll want to write about it; it's pretty much as simple as that. It's a given that the star of the show will get a lot of episodes, but for the rest of the cast in a way the casting process is ongoing and they have to sell themselves each show so that the writers have something to work with. Sure, the character bibles and story writing would have been all there to work with prior to filming the first few episodes, but once it started airing regularly script submissions would be based on what they saw in the performance.

You can check out Voyager for a really good example of cast members that set themselves apart and those that didn't, because those that didn't basically wrote themselves out of the show. The exception is probably Tuvok, who got written out solely because of Seven's introduction, so he really got screwed there. But overall it should come as no surprise that Harry and Chakotay got benched, while Doc ended up the de facto star of the show along with Seven.

McFadden had plenty of chance to shine even despite crappy scripting but as you mention plays every scene as just business and inserted nothing of her own. Sure, some great writer could just make up stuff for her to say that obliges her to show some character, but most writers will work with what's already there. If you don't give them much they won't come up with much for you. You can look at Garak from DS9 as well to see an actor that inspired the writers to bring him back. The original intention was for it to be a one-time appearance, and - on an unrelated series - the same is true of the Bester character on Babylon 5.

Re: fans asking for her back, I don't dislike her my any means, and am quite fond of Remember Me, but that being said I think back then the fans were going to latch on the original cast as being "it" regardless of their merits or demerits. Let's face it: Denise Crosby wasn't much good on the show, but that didn't stop fans from deifying her departure. This was in an age before "Eh, I wish they'd kill her off already" was a thing. So I wouldn't take a fan's attachment to the cast as an untouchable sacred thing to necessarily be a reflection on what each cast member was really bringing to the table.
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Spot81
Wed, May 23, 2018, 1:25pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Lessons

@Peter G.

Not arguing, but i think bringing her back due to "fan appeals" is somewhat telling.

I am really no Crusher supporter, i just found the mention of the actress of Nella Daren, being a better looking Crusher, not fair.

First of all it is subjective, second it is not the broad opinion, yes Crusher is no
fan favorit, but i think that is not the Actress fault. Again...no defending but i am
generally not comfortable with calling out other peoples looks.
Beverly Crusher on the TNG Run was annoying, bad written, but in no way unattractive. As i said i too found her cold and a little to much "to-business" but that is the Character not the Person playing it.

(But....if you ask me personally....i am also smitten by the Nella Daren Actress.
Maybe cause i love Dark hair but she is such a great Person to Partner Picard.)

On this board, i really often have a hard time telling apart peoples opinion
of an Actor to that of an Character. Sometimes it is specified but most often
it goes without mention who is being meant. (Character or Actor)

But, that is Star Trek and this is why we love it. Sink right in and forget.
I often take the stance of some Character as well and i think this is what
makes a great series.

Greets
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Peter G.
Wed, May 23, 2018, 12:57pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S1: Move Along Home

Ok, just so it doesn't look like I was subtly Voyager bashing, I actually meant that VOY is the one show that many fans arguably feel had a better S1 than DS9. I personally don't agree but I can see the argument, so I won't venture to say which was 'better'. I meant specifically that TNG S1 and ENT S1 were both weaker, which ENT being outright garbage and TNG S1 being surprisingly engaging in some respects but super-amateurish in others. Overall its re-watchability has been seriously harmed with time, whereas I feel DS9 S1, for its flaws, isn't dated. I would also easily classify DISC S1 as being worse than DS9's. Like it or hate it, the show is terribly uneven and has suffered from simple errors like editing gaffs and bad CGI (!!) that have no place in a major series.

My point was that TOS S1 is definitely unparalleled, and arguably VOY S1 was better/equal to it, but the rest of the series got off to a worse start than DS9 did. Sure - Move Along Home is painful (although I can't help but giggle when they're forced to play hopscotch, WTF!) and so are a couple of others, but if you get 2-3 classics in a given season that's already pretty good. Here we have Emissary, Duet, and I think In the Hands of the Prophets is up there too as classic Trek (in the same vein as Measure of a Man in terms of being pure Trek). TNG S7 also had the finale, Parallels (a personal favorite), and Lower Decks, so not all bad there. Also worth noting in TNG's case is that the quality of the ensemble by this time was so high that even a mediocre or poor episode script would still have that 'TNG feel' and comraderie that even the best of ENT never achieved. So while TNG S7 suffers from bad scripts overall the show is somehow still really good to watch on a pure 'this feels like a great show' level. That counts for a lot to me, and actually is how I feel about a lot of DS9 S1-2.
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Chrome
Wed, May 23, 2018, 12:02pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S1: Move Along Home

I’ll also add that while I find DS9 season 1 to be generally very enjoyable it also has a sense of early-installation weirdness especially with Quark, Odo, and Garak’s characters. There are also things that are great off the bat like Nana Visitor’s performance and of course the lovable Mark Alaimo who might be at his best in the pilot here. Visitor and Alaimo have great season 2 shows as well, so I think it’s really worth recognizing DS9 had a strong start which feels even stronger compared to other Trek season ones and twos.
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Chrome
Wed, May 23, 2018, 11:47am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S1: Move Along Home

DS9 is a curious animal in that it has some of the worst shows like this one and “A Man Alone” however it also has some of the best shows like “Duet” and “Emissary”.

Before this becomes Voyager bashing, I’ll go ahead and nominate S7 of TNG as the worst (with the caveat of it also having the best Trek series finale). I think there’s consensus among fans that it’s pretty terrible. Of course I haven’t even been able to sit through most of ENT so make of that what you will.
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NCC-1701-Z
Wed, May 23, 2018, 11:23am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S1: A Man Alone

Odo unmasking Ibudan felt like something right out of Scooby Doo. All it needed was "And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling shapeshifter!"
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Peter G.
Wed, May 23, 2018, 11:00am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S1: Move Along Home

"What? DS9 season 1 is pretty universially considered the worst season in all of trek."

Uh...really? I can think of three series that blatantly had worse S1's, and another that I personally think did although others disagree. You can guess which that is, but only TOS *definitely* had a better S1 as far as I'm concerned.
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Yanks
Wed, May 23, 2018, 10:54am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S1: Move Along Home

"but that just shows how strong the season was overall."

What? DS9 season 1 is pretty universially considered the worst season in all of trek.
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Peter G.
Wed, May 23, 2018, 10:33am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Lessons

The network would never have allowed a new regular character; they'd never want to blow the money on that. Anyhow the rest of the cast would probably have had their agents battle the studio if they tried.

"McFadden is a bit cold, but maybe thats her script....im giving her that much. "

No, I think it's just her. She was fired after S1 for basically bringing very little to the table in terms of charisma or acting chops. She was only brought back due to fan appeals, and due to the fact that the guy responsible for the sacking...was sacked.

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Spot81
Wed, May 23, 2018, 10:09am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Lessons

@del_duio

Yes, you are right, there was never a real chance for that given TNG's format but
i really would have liked to see it happen. The outlook of having Picard
deal with this for a few Episodes would have been great, but as i knew the series
beforehand i knew it would not happen. Just would have liked it.

I have to disagree a bit on the Crusher thing, most of the time i liked the
subdued tension there. It was there in "Attached" and that was one of the
2 things that Episode got right. Also i find both good looking. McFadden is a bit
cold, but maybe thats her script....im giving her that much.

Anyway it is true there was never a chance for this to go forth.
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Del_Duio
Wed, May 23, 2018, 9:47am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Lessons

@Spot81:

"(i too doubt the necessitiy of this...i think for the last 1,5 seasons
they could/should have taken the brave step of including her to the cast.) "

I don't think there was ever a chance this was happening. I mean physically-speaking Darren is a better-looking Bev. By this point in the show I think they were trying to milk the crap out of any sexual tension Picard and Crusher had anyhow.
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Davy
Wed, May 23, 2018, 9:21am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S3: The Defector

I always imagined that there were several more Klingon ships still cloaked and waiting to be revealed.

That would have been the wisest thing for Picard to do. There would be no reason to reveal his entire hand, only to decloak enough ships to dissuade Tomalak. If it didn't work, then decloak three more ships and so on.

Since they can't detect the cloaked ships, Tomalak has no idea how many could be out there, which makes his dialogue at the end rather foolish. Although he concedes, he does so arrogantly as if he still has the upper hand, but he simply doesn't want to risk it.

In reality, he has no idea how many ships Picard brought. For all he knows, there could be an entire fleet out there.
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Spot81
Wed, May 23, 2018, 8:42am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Lessons

I have to add one thing* wich i really caught for the first time now.

I first watched all of this as a Teenager, not every Episode in order, but over the
years on reruns i think i got all Episodes at least once.

Then some years ago i bought the whole 7 Season Set.
Then a friend gifted me the Set with the 2-Part Episodes....
I'm thankfull of it anyway but it was a bit superflous. :)

To topic:

*The scene where Picard puts his Flute away after thinking Cmd. Darren (Nella)
is dead. Again it is Patrick Stewarts ability to convey emotions wich sells the scene.*

Wow.....this really touched me.

This Episode always makes me a little sad.....it is lifting your spirit all the time
and then you are faced with a hard but necessary reality.
(i too doubt the necessitiy of this...i think for the last 1,5 seasons
they could/should have taken the brave step of including her to the cast.)

I can't stop to praise Stewart in this Episode, there are some Episodes i
watch only for him.

This is a lost opportunity for a really fullfilling relationship for both of them,
but they are both taking something with them, wich will be there for all
their life. And this is the great thing about that Episode.

It shows you that even a relationship you really were invested in(love?),
but wich didn't come to pass, can give you something good wich you take
with you for life.

I like that one!


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Spot81
Wed, May 23, 2018, 7:53am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S6: Lessons

Great Episode.

I always liked that one, i like Patrick Stewart in the role and as Troi
said it, it was very pleasing to see him truly happy.

I also really liked Riker here. I thought he handled the whole Situation
very professional. Also a good Performance by Frakes.

The Scene with Picard finger-fencing with him was great! The look on his face.

What to say about Nella and the Romance......hmmm....great chemistry,
good acting, one of the best scenes in all of TNG (Jeffereys Tube scene)

No complaints there...would have been a clear 4Star Episode for me but
that is my personal view and in now way meant as critique to the review.

Have to add that this website really enhances my experience on rewatches,
great work even if there are some reviews where i have to object but thats
the point of a review. It`s always personal. Yes if someone does this
often then there should be continuity.

But ask yourself guys. This reviews are often years old.
If you had rated those years ago?
Would the rating be the same as you gave today?

Greets
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Sooty
Wed, May 23, 2018, 6:26am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country

Without a doubt my favorite Star Trek movie (sorry khan). I just find I can watch again and again. Kirk is bit too old to fight etc but apart from that its very well done.
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mephyve
Tue, May 22, 2018, 10:46pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S2: The Measure of a Man

Excellent episode! I could nitpik that no one really expected Data to be surrendered to this hack but I understand that sometimes with stories we have to pretend that there is real danger. Besides, the strength of the story was the rl implications regarding how we will view AI automatons when they become almost human.
I personally wonder whether we should make almost humans at all. Not only are we creating the question of how we should regard them, we are also creating the fear of how they will eventually come to regard us.
As to Data's query at the beginning about how Riker knew his bluff would work; elementary dear Data. You literally stated that you were going to judge people's hands by how much they bet.
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mephyve
Tue, May 22, 2018, 10:10pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S2: A Matter of Honor

Ona note of interest, isn't it ironic that people who critique other people's work and offer suggestions to improve on it, find a Benzite arrogant and annoying? Methinks the writers are having a good laugh. lol
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mephyve
Tue, May 22, 2018, 8:48pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S2: A Matter of Honor

Having not read any of the reviews yet, I'm sure some of the perfectionists have found some minor flaw in this episode. For me, this is top tier Star Trek. Excellent sci fi! Excellent story telling ! 5 stars
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Cinnamon
Tue, May 22, 2018, 7:55pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S1: Tomorrow Is Yesterday

This ep is on right now - Heroes and Idols - I always found this ep filled with meanness and silliness. The first comment on this ep stated fist fights. That was because the CBS suits had to be happy and so did the viewing persons because that was the era of knock'em down cowboys and they had to knock each other around to make everyone happy.

That sassy mouthed from the past pilot would have sung a different tune if it was a few years later and "aliens" grabbed him. He made me angry even back then. >> Then there is Dr. McCoy with usual nastiness toward Spock and in front of a stranger. >> I have always failed to understand why every creature that gets aboard a Starfleet vehicle gets the run of it. Even in the 1960's in real life it would not have been done, nor would it be done today. >> I would never in the past nor now, give this episode anything but ten zeroes. AND, worse yet, the bridge crew did not have any idea how to solve their problem
because they stand there and let a prehistoric alien tell them what to do.
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mephyve
Tue, May 22, 2018, 7:16pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S2: Unnatural Selection

Remember those old Spiderman comics when A unt May was always having a heart attack? They used that so often I started hoping the old bat would finally croak. After all, they had no problem offing the beautiful Gwen Stacey. Thing is, I liked Aunt May which is more than I can say about Pulaski. That being the case, I was ready to say good riddance to the character. TNG finally came to their senses, I hoped, and were bringing back Gates McFadden. But no such luck. Obviously the intended drama of this episode was .lost on me.
minus 100 stars for this turd
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