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WTBA
Sun, Oct 15, 2017, 9:06pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Choose Your Pain

@startrekwatcher

" The characters have no chemistry, they barely interact, they’re insufferable people."

I really thought they worked well together this episode. Stamets, the Doc, Michael, and Tilly.
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WTBA
Sun, Oct 15, 2017, 8:29pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Choose Your Pain

Overall, this was the most Trek episode so far. 3.5/4.

Really compelling. Much more of an episodic feel, despite the continuing arcs throughout. Much of the crew seems more likable than ever.

As I said above, the f-bombs were the low point by far.
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WTBA
Sun, Oct 15, 2017, 8:04pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Choose Your Pain

Really enjoying this one so far (halfway through), but the f-bombs are near unforgivable. Absolutely gratuitous. Just cringy.
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WTBA
Tue, Oct 10, 2017, 5:11pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry

Not sure it has been mentioned yet, as I was waiting for Jammer's thoughts, but I wanted to ask what others thought about Voq (Vok?) having to (potentially) "sacrifice everything" for help from "The Matriarchs?"

Presumably, these are a cabal (or even a specific House) led by (or exclusively made up of) Klingon women.

I doubt they are going to go the Profit & Lace route of making Voq into a woman (or even the Bosom Buddies route of playing the part of one).

Might we be heading toward his becoming a eunuch? Historically, these are men castrated and put into the employ of powerful women.

It is probably something altogether different, but that is what jumped into my mind.

Any thoughts/theories?
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WTBA
Mon, Oct 9, 2017, 4:44am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry

Another thought: this week's Elon Musk reference was IMO much more forced in than last week's Beatles and Alice references. Those things are already decades old and art/music seems to endure. Elon Musk way well be largely forgotten in 100 years. Or he may be remembered as king of Mars or whatever. It just took me out of the show for a second.
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WTBA
Mon, Oct 9, 2017, 4:31am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry

@Troi As for "sheer fantasy," even though I am enjoying the show immensely, I couldn't help but chuckle at the lunacy of it. Totally ludicrous. But arguably spore travel is no less "fantasy" than giant green hands, Nagilum, Kevin Uxbridge, time travelling, the Q, Wormhole Prophets, shapeshifting founders, de-evolving crew members, etc.

At least there is a sort of attempt at science in the spores and the creature to explain it. There isn't really any science to the Q, for example. They are just superbeings. Trek science isn't the hardest science sometimes. That doesn't necessarily make it any less Trek.
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WTBA
Tue, Oct 3, 2017, 8:21pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Context Is for Kings

@JPaul Good points. Still, I suppose thinking John Lennon's (and/or The Beatles') legacy makes it to DSC's time is more believable than that baseball (or lounge singing) hang on to our DS9 crew. Though, with baseball, it seems more Sisko (baseball) specific, yet they play a whole game with Vulcans(!) in the holosuites.

That brings up a discussion that I have had with others in the past (not here though). Namely why the vast majority of the pop culture references are modern day (or older things), like Shakespeare or the content of Paris' or ENT's movie nights. Obviously, the out-of-universe reason is the shows were/are written in the present day.

There are some references to in-universe pop culture, i.e. 2200s/2300s Earth folks, but also some non-Earth folks are quoted (mostly Klingons?).

I guess it comes down to what works better: mentioning something from 20th century Earth (and it seeming out of place) or something 23rd/24th century (which the audience has no reference for, as it is fictional for the purpose of exposition/script).

As for The Orville, I have not seen it (and am not planning to watch as of yet). I imagine given Seth's penchant for references in his animated comedies and his movies, it would feel forced on a sci-fi show, even a lighter one as The Orville seems to be. I am not sure though. The main criticism I have heard of it is that jokes (and references) are forced into otherwise serious/interesting scenes.
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WTBA
Mon, Oct 2, 2017, 10:57pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Context Is for Kings

@JPaul Why is knowing the Beatles here any different than us knowing the works of Shakespeare or Bach or who Cleopatra or Julius Caesar are?

If anything, with advanced tech (we already see this), historical figures/literature/etc. are amazingly preserved for continuing consumption.
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WTBA
Sun, Oct 1, 2017, 9:23pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Context Is for Kings

^^EDIT above: "the only HUMANS in the house."
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WTBA
Sun, Oct 1, 2017, 9:22pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Context Is for Kings

@Zimmerman "The comment about her son being a human did seem a bit odd though, unless Spock had another half-sibling we've never heard of"

Michael said her foster mother read to her and [her mother's] son, and that she and her mother were "the only vulcans in the house," It wasn't said the son was human.
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WTBA
Sun, Oct 1, 2017, 9:14pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Context Is for Kings

Wow. So so so so many questions.

Minor (vague) spoilers:

This episode was damn intriguing.

It is becoming harder to try to justify this as part of the established Trek universe. Presumably, the "new way to fly" etc. will be gone by the end of the series, as to not be there when TOS would be starting.

That doesn't fix the canon issues, but I will reserve complete judgment until later.

The overall feel of the show is definitely a unique one within Trek. It has some of the DS9 feel, but it is more House of Cards than House of Quark. TV is obviously very different now, and all the Treks are very much of their time in real time.

I am enjoying the series so far. The pacing is very slow. I would argue slower than say House of Cards, for example. It isn't really Trek as we have known it, but I enjoy it.

I guess this was better than the opening eps. The first two ran together (as I watched them back to back). As it stands, it almost feels like one long opening.

I am never bored, but it has been 95% setup so far. I hope it pays off in the long run.

Some character thoughts:

Michael is growing on me. I didn't dislike her before. I actually liked her Sherlock-esque smarts in the opening episodes, though her background and personality shifts are confusing/lacking. Her brooding in this ep was a little tired, but she seemed to be opening up a little by the end of the episode.

Lorca is fantastic. Mysterious, commanding, brazen. He is probably more of a baddie than a goodie, but that seems too easy and predictable. Once we know more about everything, it should be clearer.

Tilly is a little cloying, but her Barclayish awkwardness with people was relatable. Everyone in Starfleet can't be 100% perfect. That is part of what made Barclay so great.

Saru still stands out, despite minimal screen time.

Eager for Jammer's thoughts and the next episode.
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WTBA
Mon, Sep 25, 2017, 3:10am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: The Vulcan Hello / Battle at the Binary Stars

I must say that I was really pleased with the first (and second) episodes.

Criticism first:

The pacing was a little slow, and the exposition heavy in the first ep. (I will save 2nd ep thoughts for that thread).

The theme is great, but the visuals are not very good. I would rather space visuals (as in TNG/VOY/DS9), but they seem closer to the ENT theme visuals. The orchestration in superb, but I wish it was matched to better visuals.

While I appreciated the Klingons speaking Klingons, the subtitles wore on me. I usually have captions on anyway, but having to read all the translations was tiresome (especially watching two eps back to back). Also, a quirk of the captioning, it would sometimes say "speaking Klingon" and cover up the translation. I had to go back a couple times (with CC off for a minute) to catch the translated lines.

Praise:

I was gripped. Yeoh and Green were very believable and led the show well.

While there seemed to be a concern beforehand that this was Trek in name and trappings only, I think the established universe (and my knowledge of it) made the episode much better than had it been new folks in a new universe.

The was a lot of emotional resonance. In part, because I already care about the Federation (and Humans and Vulcans, etc.).

There is a certain movie-ness to it, especially in the visuals. This does not feel as Trek per se, but it did not diminish my enjoyment. I did not want it to look like the 1960s or 1980s.

3 out of 4 for episode 1. Solid start. Eager to see where we are going. Lots happening already.

PS: I will say that I wish CBS did like Netflix and realized all the eps at once. I signed up for the free week and will pay for the next couple months (or whatever months the eps air), but I prefer the Netflix method, wherein I can pay for one month, watch all of something (say a new season of House of Cards) and then cancel again.
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WTBA
Sat, Dec 31, 2016, 8:31pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S6: Tears of the Prophets

@Dave

Presumably the PW was trapped in the artifact by devout ancient Bajorans (or maybe the Prophets themselves?). I do wish Dukat had said a little more about the artifact (e.g. "The entity trapped in this artifact was imprisoned by...").
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WTBA
Fri, Nov 11, 2016, 2:07pm (UTC -6)
Re: ENT S4: Divergence

Badass Phlox at the end was great. Cool to see him get the big tough speech.

I was entertained throughout both parts.
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WTBA
Fri, Nov 4, 2016, 1:46am (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S4: The Omega Directive

When Voyager sped away as they exploded the chamber with the torpedo, didn't they still have some of the aliens in sick bay?

Did they return them after, apologize for destroying the aliens' "life's work" and just mosey on toward the AQ?

Chatokay said they would return them after, but they never seemed to...

Really intriguing episode overall. Seven is very compelling.
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WTBA
Sun, Oct 23, 2016, 5:51pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S4: The Visitor

I really enjoyed this episode the first time, but subsequent viewings leave me sort of cold.

I guess the first time, a small part of me thought there might be bigger consequences. Obviously, Ben is not going to be gone for good, but maybe some other consequences. Having seen the series through a couple times, one could argue that a lot is different in the "real" timeline that Jake restores.

Other commenters have mentioned some of my issues with the episode, such as Jake's lack of concern for altering decades of history. Of course, any time when our main character(s) encounter some temporal issue, we the viewers know that they will correct it (for the most part). I always get the impression that the timeline is meant as a single one (there can be only one!). Our main characters are almost always fully driven to "fix" the timeline to how it "should be" or was "meant to be." This episode is less about the time/subspace travel and more about the characters, and that is fine.

The other issue I have on subsequent viewings that no one mentioned exactly is the idea that Jake would be so driven to fix everything. Obviously losing his father is painful and the visits are not helpful to getting over it (though he seems to get by for a while - he writes, he's married, etc.). I am just not sure that Ben and Jake seem close enough to justify so much emotional plotting.

I feel like over the course of the series, we are TOLD Ben and Jake are super close more than we ever really see it. We are essentially told that because Ben's wife/Jake's mom is dead, they are closer. Maybe, but there are countless instances where they do not seem very close (some of which were mentioned in comments above).

Take the episode where Ben and Jake build the ship in space. They do not seem very close, but plot-plot-plot and they are so close at the end. Ironically, in this episode we are commenting on, Jake is busy writing and doesn't care much about his father's excitement in the wormhole phenomenon. Of course, this is part of what leads to the "put your head up" statement, but Jake cannot take that advice, as he never met his future self or lived to see his father disappear, after the timeline is restored (or the accident is prevented or whatever).

Of course there are other moments in the series, SPOILER like Jake staying on DS9 during Dominion occupation for example SPOILER, which only further the notion that they are not as close as the writers or this plot want us to believe. Ben and Jake are close when the plot wants it, and maybe more so in Ben's mind than Jake's usually.

This is why the scene with Jake weeping over his father in sickbay just seemed flat in the 2nd and later viewings. Sure, he is torn up over his father's death, but I just never bought that they had that kind of relationship. Maybe losing Ben made Jake realize how much his father meant to him (or should have). That feeds back into the "put your head up" notion. If only there had been lasting consequences from this, where they could remember and feel closer, but no.

I liked Todd's performance and Lofton is better than usual. Brooks is hammy in moments, but I have just accepted that is Ben Sisko. I know people in real life who always seem to be a little over-the-top like that. The writing is decent enough and it is a nice change-of-pace after TWOTW and given the stuff coming in later seasons.

Probably 4 stars on 1st viewing, 3 in subsequent ones.
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WTBA
Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 7:58am (UTC -6)
Re: ENT S3: Doctor's Orders

I am surprised no one mentioned the easter egg of Phlox thinking something was outside the window on the hull.

It seemed like an homage to Shatner's Pre-Trek Twilight Zone episode, where he sees a creature on the wing of the plane he is on.

As for the twist, I was surprised to see T'Pol the first time she appeared, but did not consider that she was not real until the end. I wasn't exactly surprised as much as it just made sense given what had proceeded it.
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WTBA
Tue, Aug 16, 2016, 10:49pm (UTC -6)
Re: ENT S1: Oasis

I loved the "holographic doctor" line.

There is another similar nod when Ezral says it is strange being in space again after so long (great in-story, but an obvious a nod to Rene's time on DS9 too, albeit only three years hence).

Very predictable overall, though watching it for only the second time recently, I did not remember how it resolved.
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