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philadlj
Tue, Feb 13, 2018, 10:29am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

My main problem with how L'Rell manages to convince the Klingon fleet (though we only see a small handful of ships) to return home is how much trust they put in her claim that she has a weapon that will destroy their homeworld. Why do they decide, as a SINGLE entity, to just go along with that claim from hundreds of light years away? I just wasn't convinced L'Rell had enough "on the ground" (or rather "in space") leverage. Also, for months we've had 24 houses trying to out-kill one another, and this vague threat from Qo'noS just happens to unite them in retreat? Not ONE house said "this is BS, let's do this (i.e. attack Earth)." Just very hard to swallow.

I was also very irritated by the VERY LOUD and mechanical delivery of Burnham's voiceover early in the episode. There was a slight "aha" when we learned that was actually a speech being delivered at UFP HQ, but it just didn't work early on, and was yet another example of Discovery's need to "tell, not show" that not only insults the audience's intelligence but doesn't feel like anything other than narrative laziness. I realize some of Kirk's logs sometimes got a bit philosophical (his Lights of Zetar log about Scotty probably takes the cake) but there was simply too much Burnham voiceover this season.

Everything about that stolid scene in UFP HQ is extremely awkwardly staged, and the actual content of Burnham's speech, from the patronizing fable to the apparent lack of consequences on the part of every UFP/Starfleet official who sanctioned genoicde, just felt flat and unsatisfying. That being said, the ends DO justify the means if the ends put Discovery back on a course of exploration and away from war, political intrigue, MU camp and hidden identities. Perhaps the appearance of the Enterprise serves as a herald to a more conventional exploratory narrative next season. Disco's first season took a lot of risks, and not all of them paid off, but overall I came away happy, despite the qualms above.
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philadlj
Wed, Feb 7, 2018, 9:08am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: The War Without, The War Within

Maybe Cornwell should have consulted with Sarek, who surely knows about The Vulcan Hello: Klingons (as a monolithic people, individuals are more nuanced) basically only understand two things: Strength and honor.

If they defeat you, it's because you were too weak to resist them. If you retreat from the field of battle rather than face your fate, you lack honor, and they won't bat an eye at conquering more of you.

Starfleet has no doubt developed a defensive posture, but they just keep having outposts and bases chipped away by the various competing houses. What they need to do is act like a house themselves; to stop defending and go on the offense.

It's not the Federation Way, but to paraphrase Ben Sisko, when the peace is being lost, war could be their only hope. If the Federation wants to completely fall holding true to their principles, well, keep on doing what they've been doing.

Looking forward to seeing where this goes. I just hope whatever cliffhanger comes at the end of the finale comes AFTER there's been a turning point in the war in the Feds' favor.

And for crap's sake, give the secondary crew members more lines and stories next season!
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LJ
Mon, Feb 5, 2018, 2:17pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: The War Without, The War Within

@Plain Simple

As I understood it, in that scene Cornwell was still so in shock that she didn't process Saru's words before and thought they were on a defined course, hence her ordering them to "continue on the same course". Her words deliberately didn't make sense, to show how shocked she was.

And as I said above, maybe it's just me, but I don't think of Sarek as being "one of the most loved characters of Trek". In my opinion he was always portrayed as a dickish character. But again, maybe it's just me.
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LJ
Mon, Feb 5, 2018, 2:06pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: The War Without, The War Within

@Peter G.

Maybe it's just me, but I always saw Vulcans as they are being represented in DSC, i.e., as beings that rely extremely on logic, whose respect for the IDIC philosophy is more lip-service than action, and with that come out as haughty and self-important. Especially the character of Sarek, which was shown to be racist in relation to Tellarites, a terrible father to Spock and totally patronising towards his wife, all of this in the very first time we see him, in Journey to Babel. Spock isn't like this because he's half human, but that's the way I see most Vulcans.

Also, if I recall well, CBS didn't have any issues with Axanar until its producers started to selling their stuff and making lots of money using the Star Trek brand, which in hindsight was shortsighted of these producers not to expect CBS to be mad at copyright and licencing issues. I think people overestimate Axanar anyways. We never got to see the whole thing, just that Prelude to Axanar Video, that although well-acted (for a fan production) is also really boring, in my opinion.
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LJ
Mon, Feb 5, 2018, 1:33pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: The War Without, The War Within

I really liked this episode! Gotta agree with others that this one feels more Trek-y and it's good to see that the level of Trek-y-ness on the show only seems to be increasing. Which implies that the thing that gave the show such a different aspect as really Lorca and his MU ways. Like I said before, I'm going to miss Jason Isaacs and I still wish his character hadn't been reduced to a one-dimensional villain in the last episode, BUT if this contributes to the show getting more Trek-y, I'm okay with it.

I did find the spore thing to be lazy written, again, but oh well, it's technobabble and as far as I can recall, technobabble in Trek was always lazy written, with very few exceptions. So it's not such a big deal, to me.

Unlike many others here, I enjoyed the Burnham/Ash thing and I'm glad that, for once, they didn't choose to follow the "love forgives everything" path. For me, it was refreshing to see that Burnham is not so ready to forgive her former lover and for a good reason too. Same goes with Stamets. That scene in the corridor was played out very well, you can see that Stamets is making his best effort not to punch Tyler.

Also unlike many others, I like SMG's acting. Sure, it isn't Sir Patrick Stewart's level of greatness, but I think she does well with the role she's given, i.e., a human raised by Vulcans, with a Vulcan posture but human and very flawed emotions. I also think that her character better definined as being more emotional or more logical, instead of an uncertain mix of the two, would benefit her acting.

As for the final decision of letting a MU character captain the ship, well, it shows how desperate the Federation is to win the war. But then again, they were ready to excuse Lorca's "unorthodox" actions as long as he was winning the war, even though they didn't know he was a Terran, so I suppose the only difference between that situation and this one is that, at least this time, they know this Georgiou is Terran.

Having said that, though, I hope there is more to their plan than just annihilation of Kronos (I don't recall how to write the planet's name "correctly", sorry. :p). So I hope there was a bit of dialogue between Sarek and MU Georgiou that we deliberately didn't get to see, explaining that her plan works out in a way that's less genocidal and more Federation. I guess we'll see. Really good to have more of Michelle Yeoh next week anyways.

3.5/4.0
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philadlj
Thu, Feb 1, 2018, 9:32am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: What's Past Is Prologue

"this episode plays out pretty much the worst-case scenario regarding "Captain" Lorca"

"destroys what was once an intriguing and potentially complicated character"

"it feels like an act of arson against much of the season"

"thinking about afterward is pretty deflating"

See, I feel entirely differently about the Lorca heel turn. I believe the deflating "worst-case scenario" is EXACTLY what Discovery had been trying to pull all along. Burnham, Saru, and the rest of the crew had likely formed the idea in their mind that Lorca was this "intriguing and potentially complicated character"...BUT HE WASN'T. That was precisely the illusion he tried to cultivate, and it worked on everyone, including much of the audience, and me!

This wasn't an "act of arson", like someone throwing a match into a dry forest. I like to think of it more of a naturally-occuring forest fire, such as those caused by lightning. Such fires are crucial to the species that live within them to spur regrowth and reproduciton. In the case of Disco, Lorca had to go so that the rest of the crew could step out of his shadow and shine. And that's exactly what happened; I agree the most enjoyable scenes were those of Saru leading and working with his crew to get home.

Yes, it sucks that Lorca was just a boring, evil MU bastard. But we have to take responsibility for the grayer conclusions we drew from his behavior, just as the crew of Discovery will have to do. This disappointment works on many levels - the writers, our affection for the actor and his talents, and the fictional crew who had let themselves be led by a wolf in "somewha-less wolfish" clothing.

I think I actually would have been MORE disappointed if Lorca had turned out to be some kind of revolutionary antihero who fights against the Terran Empire. For one thing, we already know his rebellion won't last, as ten years later when the Enterprise shows up in the MU the empire is still very much in power. But mostly it just doesn't matter how Lorca met his end; now, an evil bastard through the Charon's moon door, or later, when he and his band of rebels is wiped out.

Because we never actually knew Lorca; only MU Lorca. And for Discovery to live, he had to die.

Here's hoping Prime Lorca shows up at some point.
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LJ
Mon, Jan 29, 2018, 4:43pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: What's Past Is Prologue

"Did anyone notice...

https://i.imgur.com/oWUKfae.jpg

...Michael holding her phaser the wrong way around during the end of the climactic battle?"

Whoa, big mistake there. :p
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LJ
Mon, Jan 29, 2018, 4:39pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: What's Past Is Prologue

"Isn't the MU Discovery in the Prime Universe now? The way I read the show, there are now two Discovery's in the Prime Universe, one commanded by the real Mirror Tilly (and presumably working for the Klingons)."

Yep, that's the way I read it.

Also, for those who saw the (apparently intended) connection with Star Wars concepts, I suppose these connections have been around since the first MU episode, with the Empire and the rebels who fight against it and the extremely huge ships and fancy uniforms.
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LJ
Mon, Jan 29, 2018, 12:53pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: What's Past Is Prologue

@JustSaying

honestly, for all the high octane drama drama Discovery is putting out, a lot of these comments are way more melodramatic than the actual show.

@Peter G.

I would totally agree with you IF the commentators of this site were "just expressing their views in a friendly way". Many however, are not. I don't think DSC is perfect. Far from it. I have a list of criticisms about the show and some of its writing choices I profoundly disagree with it. And I can (and do) express all of my criticism without conveying the feeling I simply hate others for liking this show, which honestly is the feeling I get when reading some of the comments here. And frankly it spoils my day to come here expecting to read good, different povs from mine and end up reading a lot of complaining and whining.

@Genga

"Agree with lots of the above but my absolute favourite part of this episode was the discovery really working like a functioning unit, the minor characters lines really helped with this. And with Saru as captain it felt very Trekkian. Anyway enjoyable episode looking to see how the season finishes, hopefully not a time reset..."

I loved Captain Saru too and I loved the crew working as one, as I mentioned above. And yes, I'm praying that the solution for all this won't be just a time reset. I've had enough of those in Voyager, thank you very much.

@artymiss

"Anyone got any theories as to what that green dot of light that submerged itself into Tilly's shoulder might be?"

I didn't see this scene as having any significance, but after someone here pointed out it might be Culber, I've been thinking about it and I have this theory it might be Culber too.
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LJ
Mon, Jan 29, 2018, 8:48am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: What's Past Is Prologue

@anthimos112

"You ask me to stop "berating people" for attacking the show they make an informed choice to watch every week yet go on to defend this comment section as a forum where people can have dissenting opinions. Do you not see the hypocrisy in that posistion? I have no problem with critcism, what i have a problem with is CONTINUED whining. Week after week after week. Nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking. Any reasonable person can agree that the show is not perfect and still come from a place of positivity, a place of "here is where i hope the show is headed" or "I would like to see this". Instead most of these reviews are simply bashing and listing of faults show after show. A reasonable person would also stop watching a show that brought them such displeasure. Unfortunately a big part of Trek fandom is made up of unreasonable, perfectionist complainers who enjoy the critique of a Trek show more than they do ENJOYING a Trek show. They feed of off the nitpicking and complaining. I have seen it for 30 years. Some Trek fans just want to whine, plain and simple. They are free to do so. I am also free point it out."

THIS. This a million times. It's rather sad and tiresome to come back to this section week after week already knowing what kind of whining I'll find here. It's not constructive criticism, it's a bunch of cry-babies screaming "THIS ISN'T MY TREK! GIVE ME BACK MY TREK!!".
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LJ
Mon, Jan 29, 2018, 8:38am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: What's Past Is Prologue

All the fair criticisms aside, I just think that those here who seem to hate the show so far will really never get to a point where they like it.

R.I.P. Jason Isaacs. I too am sad that they went with the easy "He's a bad guy!" path. But at least that meant we got captain Saru, which in my opinion, is an awesome captain. And hey, there's always the "We still have PU Lorca" path, as it seems PU Lorca wasn't killed after all (Realistically speaking, though, Jason Isaacs' salary must be too high to have him around for more than one single season, so I don't think we'll be seeing him again).

Again we got the whole crew working together as one to solve a problem. We had seen this before in "Into the Forest I Go" and it's nice to see it here.

I agree that having the fungi network's destruction to suddenly go from "We won't be able to go back home" to "All life everywhere will be destroyed" was silly. I've no problems with the fictional concept of the mycelial network, but they need to keep it constant, within a set of limits, instead of just adding new elements to it as the plot requires.

For a couple of people who are saying that the Klingons won the war because Lorca wasn't there to fight it, it's quite obvious that this wasn't the reason. The Federation lost the war because they couldn't figure out the secret to beating the Klingon's cloak tech in time and Discovery went to the MU before providing them with the solution.


Also, why the heck did Burnham bring Georgiou back with her? Don't get me bad, I'm glad we'll be having more of the awesome Michelle Yeoh in the show, but it doesn't make any sense. It seems she couldn't allow this version of Georgiou to die too, after both versions of Burnham betrayed her and led to her eventual death. But that would mean Burnham went from "too logical" to "too emotional", since she must be aware this isn't "her" Georgiou, but a really bad version of Georgiou. We'll see how that ends...

Anyway, all and all, I liked this MU arc.

Now I want to see how they'll go forward with this, since they're apparently in an alternate timeline (one in which the Klingons won the war). How do I know it's an alternate timeline? Well, because the Klingons never won the war in "our" timeline.
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philadlj
Thu, Jan 25, 2018, 10:31am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Vaulting Ambition

My rankings (after recently finishing TOS):

Rankings:

1) DS9
2) TNG
3) VOY
4) TOS
5) DSC
6) ENT

Captains:

1) Picard
2) Sisko
3) Kirk
4) Janeway
5) Lorca
6) Archer
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philadlj
Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 8:55am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Vaulting Ambition

I liked this episode, and was on the fence about Lorca until the reveal. I will say that Emperor Georgiou's rotating throne reminded me of The Price is Right. "IT'S A NEW EMPEROR!!!"

The Flagship Charon has what looks like a mini-star as a power source. this is similar to Romulan Warbirds using a miniature quantum singularity. The smallest star we know of in 2018 still has a slightly larger radius than Saturn, so not sure how that works, but it was definitely cool.
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LJ
Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 9:27pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Vaulting Ambition

@The Tower

I do hope they show what sort of havoc the ISS Discovery is wrecking in the Prime Universe.

@Ed

"'Captain, some Vulcan in an admiral uniform keeps calling us up to tell us to stop committing 'war crimes' whatever those might be.'

Captain 'Killy'-- 'Filthy alien propaganda! Block him and keep blowing sh** up!'"

LOLOLOLOL. Thanks for the laugh.
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LJ
Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 9:23pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Vaulting Ambition

Some people here seem to not have watched the same episodes I did, or at least not watched them paying the same level of attention I did, because most of the questions made by these people were either answered already or the show made it clear that an answer is coming sometime in the future.

@Yair

"How did Lorca knew he'd get out of the torture chamber? He couldn't have known that he wouldn't just be fried or that someone would ever open the chamber. This could have been easily fixed by simply giving him some co-conspirator on the inside. And doesn't the prolonged torture have any side effects, to the point the victim can just step outside and act normally?"

He pretended to pass out and be on the verge of dying, something that Emperor Georgiou made clear she didn't want (she says Gabriel "will live a long life and that every moment of that life will be passed on our agonisers"), so of course the captain of the imperial ship didn't want to have him die at his hands, because the Emperor would probably kill him in case that happened. And Burnham applies a hypo-spray that makes Lorca's skin less sensitive to the effects of the agoniser, hence why he was able to just step outside and act normally. This was shown very clearly in the episode.

"Does anything L'Rell do or did, ever make any sense?"

Yes, it did. She turned Voq, a Klingon, into a human, put the personality of a Starfleet officer on top of his own personality, and managed to make him infiltrate the most powerful Starfleet vessel, i.e., the USS Discovery, as a sleeping agent. She planned to wake Voq later with a prayer, so that he could do his job as a spy, but obviously something in her "programming" went wrong, because her plan didn't work. Again, this was explained in the show.

@Yair and Skabs

"Ok, so MU Stamets is an horrible human being, we could guess, but how could 'using the network for his own gain' destroy it? Using warp drives for some Empire's own gain doesn't destroy subspace. Is it some magic thing where the user's motives matter? And why would Stamets waking up wake him up too?"

"I could buy the spore drive/mycelial network before (barely), but now? What happened in this episode? Is the network sentient? Is it heaven, or purgatory or something? How is it creating all these illusions and why? Did it create Culber or was it Stamets that created him? Why would it trap Stamets there, then tell him how to leave? Why would PU Stamets opening his eyes set both Stamets free? What the hell is going on?"

MU Stamets' consciousness was inside the mycelial plane and the mycelial plane was being put inside his head (by Tilly's experiment in the real world), leading the mycelial plane to resemble Stamets' thoughts. This was literally explained by dialogue in this episode. How using the network to MU Stamets' own gain can destroy it? This show is serialised, meaning that we don't get the answers to all of our questions in a single episode. And it's quite clear they will answer this question in future episodes. The only question they might not answer is why PU Stamets waking up led to MU Stamets also waking up.

@Skabs

"So they had the spore drive in the MU too apparently, since MU Stamets got trapped in the network, so why did Georgiou act like she had never heard of it when Mike told her how they got there? It was being researched on her ship after all. Or maybe they were just working on it, but hadn't made it functional yet, but then why was MU Stamets in the network? PU Stamets only got there after making over a hundred jumps. How did MU stamets get in there? What's going on?"

No, they don't have the Spore Drive in the MU. MU Stamets apparently never got around to developing it. How did he get trapped in the mycelial plane? Again, this will probably be explained in a future episode.

"I thought Voq had taken over Ash completely last episode, yet he appears and asks Saru for help in this one. L'Rell 'killed' Voq's personality? Or did she? Why would they have Klingon mind wipe glove thingies on the ship? Why did she get the original Voq/Ash procedure all backwards when she explained it? A writing goof or actual plot? What's going on?"

Ash's and Voq's personality are fighting each other. At some moments he's Ash, at others he is Voq. It wasn't explained what L'Rell did in this episode, but yeah, like I said above, this will most certainly be approached before the season ends.

@Yair

"Didn't MU Archer order the Defiant library erased precisely to avoid its incendiary content?"

Yeah, he did alright. He was then killed by MU Hoshi, so his orders were never executed to the letter. And MU Georgiou does say this data was classified, which says something about them wanting to avoid the consequences of its information leaking.

@Skabs

Lorca didn't have a plan. His only goal was always to overthrow the Emperor. He probably ended up in the Prime Universe by accident (most likely as a result of the ISS Buran's destruction) and then being an accomplished liar and probably having some info on the PU (that came with the Defiant) managed to find his way into a command and use this command to manipulate people as he went along his way. First he conscripted Stamets and his research, knowing it could present a way to go back to the MU. Then he conscripted Burnham, essentially taking her out of prison, partly because he had some kind of weird relationship going on with MU Burnham and partly because he knew Burnham was the key for him to enter the Emperor's flagship, so he could try to overthrow her again.

I figured all of this simply watching the show and paying attention. It's simple enough if you're not watching the show already thinking you're going to hate it and not thus not really following its story.
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LJ
Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 3:00pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Vaulting Ambition

@Mertov

"Wow, for a number of episodes, some people complained that Lorca was nothing like a Starfleet captain, and that his character was everything against Trek, etc.. There were even people explicitly saying that the only way it would make sense is if he were from the Mirror Universe..
And now that it is revealed to be so - in an efficient way in my opinion - others are now complaining that writers wasted his character, it's a terrible idea, etc..

Hard to make Trekkies happy :))"

I have to agree with that, though I was one who was happy with Lorca not being Starfleet through and through but rather a disturbed/anti-hero kind of captain since the beginning, so I didn't like this oversimplification that comes with him being MU, myself.
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LJ
Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 2:55pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Vaulting Ambition

Ah, I meant MU Sisko* on the message above. Stupid corrector. lol
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LJ
Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 2:51pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Vaulting Ambition

And imo, a thing that the show could improve in its writing is this tendency it has to go with totally controversial plot points (Culber being killed for no reason at all, Michael eating a Kelpian that looks exactly like Saru but isn't, etc) and then having to rush to Twitter of all places to explain things in more detail and calm down the masses that are justifiably mad at said plot points.
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LJ
Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 2:46pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Vaulting Ambition

@People who are asking if Michael ate MU Saru

One of the writers confirmed on Twitter that, no, she didn't.
She did eat a random Kelpien, though, which I guess the series could do without. But oh well, it *is* the MU after all... Terrans are barbarians and etc.
And while we're on the subject of barbarians, either MU Lorca really restrained himself or he might be one of the more decent MU citizens, on par with MU Disko and Smiley.
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LJ
Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 12:50pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Vaulting Ambition

Troy G

Actually it was both VOY and DS9 that had ads before the preview, due to the fact those were aired on UPN (which is defunct by now.

Rahul

It's been implied that the "enemy" is either Voq/Tyler or MU Stamets.

Surak

I suppose the question of whether we are emotionally invested in the characters or not varies from person to person. I for instance, find myself extremely invested in Tilly, Saru, Stamets and Culber and heck, even in Lorca.
I still find Burnham too logical to be compelling though, although that means we can't complain about the SMG's interpretation of someone raised on Vulcan; she nails it. lol

Peter G

It's clear to me that L'Rell simply effed up with her plan. I guess that she expected that Tyler's personality would never take over Voq's, so she expected that whenever she said the prayer to him, he would instantly go back to being Voq and then they could advance their plan (which would probably be deleting the cloaking algorithm and take Discovery to the hands of the Klingons). Her plan didn't work though, so yeah, she pretty much effed up.

Regarding the Lorca thing, I suppose the your assessment regarding his motivations to seek out PU Burnham in the first place are correct and that the rest was simply "luck" playing out. He probably searched Burnham's location first thing when he got into this universe, arranged a prison transfer for he (which I believe to be something he would have enough clout to pull off), waited for her in the suttle's path, deliberately attacked her ship with space bugs and then "rescued" her. As for why he was able to take Burnham out of prison, it's explained away by a regulation in the 5th episode (you can conscript virtually anyone in times of war, or something along these lines). He managed to retain command of Discovery even after the Buran disaster because it's clear he's an accomplished liar and he lied to Admiral Cornwell.

@doctorbenjiphd

When (supposedly) MU Stamets wakes up he says "He did it. I'm back", probably referring to PU Stamets, whom he was begging to come up with a solution as to how exit that plane. So I guess that's still MU Stamets who we see waking up.
And yeah, probably the fact this whole season was written when the show was going to be an anthology series is the reason why we're probably not getting many characters from this season on the next one. Although they might still find that PU Lorca is still alive, somehow and have him being assuming his rightful place as Discovery's true captain.

@Drea

I agree. I had hoped the show wouldn't go the way of having Lorca being an MU character, because he was very well nuanced and believable as just a conflicted/traumatised captain with a grey morality. And it was also what made him stand out when compared with other captains (Kirk et al). Now he's lost his uniqueness.

@BZ

It's said by Mudd, on episode 5, that the Buran was lost one month into the war, so that's when MU Lorca switched places with PU Lorca. And like you said, only after he switched places was that he realised he had all the tools to go back to the MU (spore drive, PU Burnham, etc).

@Dom

I beg to differ that this MU arc is purposeless. I'm finding it to be the best use of the MU so far in Star Trek. As for the supposed lack of Trekkian themes in DSC, I can mention at least 5 of them that were approached by the show. But going by the way you call the show STD I'm guessing your hatred of it is pretty final, so I won't waste my time.
Also that critical Starfleet mining facility had been under attack for hours and hours on end and its shields hadn't stopped working, so I guess it was far from being defenseless...

As a side note, I don't know why you people who hate the show take your time coming here to discourse about how much you hate the show, but that's just me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

By the way, my personal ranking is:

6) Archer
5) Janeway
4) Kirk
3) Lorca
2) Sisko
1) Picard

Poor Janeway. I really saw potential in her character but, as most of VOY, it was so badly written, in my opinion. Which is unfortunate, since she was the first female captain Trek presented us. And the second one, i.e., Georgiou, who seemed to be infinitely better written than Janeway, was killed off after only two episodes.
Also @James: I think PU Lorca wasn't the one who destroyed the USS Buran and didn't go down with his ship, but rather MU Lorca
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LJ
Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 3:43pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: The Wolf Inside

By the way, I'm start to wonder if something happened to Jammer. He normally doesn't take this long to post his reviews...
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LJ
Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 3:42pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: The Wolf Inside

@Ed

"Maybe she was XO, but I like to think that "Killy" was third or fourth in command and took out all her superiors on the ship at once. :) She's ambitious."

Yeah, I love that idea too! Captain Killy is awesome! :p
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LJ
Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 6:32am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: The Wolf Inside

@Plain Simple

"What does the hair have to do with it?"

I suppose @wolfstar meant that the hair looked too human?
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LJ
Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 6:25am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: The Wolf Inside

@Anonymius

It's not stated what was Tilly position before she killed her captain, but following the logic, she was an XO.
Same thing with Connor on the Shenzou. He became a captain after MU Burnham died during a mission, not killed by him, so it stands to reason he was the XO before that. And when Burnham kills him, MU Detmer becomes the XO (Burnham calls her "number one" in The Wolf Inside).
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LJ
Thu, Jan 18, 2018, 5:56am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: The Wolf Inside

@John Harmor

I didn't mean a literal war, I meant the fictional war that's going on in DSC, i.e., the Klingon-Federation war.

@KT

That episode didn't "piss all over warp drive". It has been implied that subspace is the middle through which FTL travel and communication is possible since the first episodes of TOS. They even used the term "hyperspace" (which is basically the same thing), once or twice in TOS, before the show got its mythology properly defined.
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