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Sun, Aug 30, 2020, 3:29pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: The Darkness and the Light


You're actually enjoying this, don't you? All the chaos and mayhem. And most of all, all the attention it ends up giving little old you.


I most certainly ain't interested into getting into this debate *again*. Those who got it, already got it. Those who didn't, never will.

I will say, though, that your response only proved that I got your point perfectly.
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Sun, Aug 30, 2020, 3:24pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Rapture

"As I said before, Germany has come to terms with its past very well, but there's a tendency among a minority of West Germans (typically in the Generation X age-range) to be in a state of constant paranoid vigilance towards anyone or anything they perceive as "Nazi" or associated with the (far-)right."

Unfortunately this kind of thing has become quite popular in the USA as well, in the past year.

At any rate, my point that this tendency has absolutely nothing to do with Booming's "service" stands. I also wonder what possible war-for-freedom s/he could have faught in Germany in the 1990's...
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Sun, Aug 30, 2020, 3:17pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: The Drumhead

"Appealing to 'property rights' and 'freedom of speech laws' and 'human rights' to denounce segments BLM who trash property and cancel dudes on twitter, is to miss the point entirely."

Sorry but no.

When basic human rights are being violated, then saying "basic human rights are being violated" is hardly missing the point.

Also, two wrongs do not make a right.

"75 percent of the world's superpower doesn't live paycheck to paycheck because 'tolerance', 'diversity' and 'human rights' are lacking. "

That may well be.

But I don't see how throwing human rights down the tube is going to make anybody's situation better.

I also doubt you're going to find many BLM supporters who'd take this stance either. They are protesting against racism, aren't they? That's the whole f***-ing point of their protests and riots and god-knows-what. It's like... the only issue that exists in the entire universe, according to their views.

So don't try to pretend that their riots about the economy or anything else. Because they aren't.

Besides, if you think human rights don't matter, what are we even talking about here? What's all this lofty talk of "economic equality and justice" when you are okay with people destroying the livelihood of other people? How would you have liked it, if somebody did that to *you*?
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Sun, Aug 30, 2020, 2:15pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: The Darkness and the Light

"Many claim that the indiscriminate destruction of property condemns the actions of such protesters. It suggests that protests aren't something anyone *needs* to do, that there isn't a Cardassian-Occupation-level systemic issue looming over a particular class of people. "

Did you seriously just compare an occupied planet with labor camps and mass genocide to the current racial situation in the USA?

Kira and company did what they did BECAUSE THEY HAD NO OTHER CHOICE.
The mixture of darkness and light was FORCED on them by the very extreme circumstances.

This is absolutely nothing like the current situation in the US, where minority members have many other ways to voice their concern and be heard. Where, indeed, there are millions of people who are so sympathetic to their cause that they are willing to give them a carte-blanche permit to do whatever crimes they want in the alleged name of racial justice.

So if the darkness and the light get muddled by these people's actions, that's due to their own personal choice. A choice that Kira and company never had the luxury to make.

In short, your comparison is completely ridiculous.
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Sun, Aug 30, 2020, 11:55am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Rapture

"It feels like you're in a constant struggle with everyone and your worldview has been primed to be constantly on guard and seeing "fascists" and "Nazis" everywhere..."

Why on earth would a *German* veteran see fascists and Nazis everywhere?

Also, a friendly reminder: World War II ended 75 years ago. I don't think there are many Nazi-fighting veterans on the net these days.


Welcome to the 2020 version of Jammer's community. A few months late, but the majority here has become just as crazy and hateful as the rest of the world has become.

Guess it was to bound to happen at some point.
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Sun, Aug 30, 2020, 11:17am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: The Drumhead

"Been warning you all as to what the Left has become for a long time. And now we're seeing the full level of crazy end where it always wanted to... violence and totalitarianism."


Gotta tell you, when paranoid extreme right-wing propaganda starts to sound sane in the light of current events, you know that there's something seriously wrong with the situation.
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Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 10:13am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

I don't care about logic or drama or story really. Those things can always be thrown out to play a joke up.

What I take issue with, is that I don't find any of this funny. Plots that require everyone to be a moron, at whatever time the script calls for them to be a moron, don't make me laugh.

I'm more of a fan of absurd satire, than rapid fire nonsense.
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C.T. Phipps
Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 6:33pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

Lower Decks is awesome so it's your loss. Mind you, I find the idea of people wanting it to be a serious drama is about complaining about a dog not being a cat. It's meant to be fanservice and hilarity for hardcore Trek fans.

Love it for what it is.
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Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 8:28pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

CBS' management of the Trek Franchise is like someone secretly cryfarting through a stage production of the entirety of Season 5 of Happy Days. Just hand the series over to someone else if you don't care, guys.
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Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 11:04am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: The Drumhead

"One might also mention that democracies are basically never toppled by left wing forces but almost always by right wing coups."

One might also mention that the left is traditionally associated with defending the absoluteness of basic human rights, advocating tolerance and diversity, and generally being in line with Trekkian values.

Yet here we are. ;-)

So forgive me if I don't find the statistic you just quoted to be re-assuring.
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Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 10:41am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: The Drumhead

"One thing that really works about the episode is how Picard clearly understands that the best way to defeat Satie is to give her enough rope to hang herself. He can see what's going on and the underlying dynamics at play, but it's not yet clear to everyone else (including her superiors), so to expose her, rather than going directly on the attack, he allows her to get carried away with her paranoid witch-hunt (at professional risk to himself) until she overreaches badly and the true nature of proceedings is made apparent to all."

It's amazing how often this gets the job done.

And of-course, any resemblance to a certain discussion that is currently going on at a certain Trek websites that starts with "J", is purely coincidental. ;-)
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Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 10:16am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

@Joe Menta
"So why quit now?"

Because he doesn't want to do it.

That's all the reason he needs. It's not like he owes us anything.

I'm also not quite sure why anybody would want Jammer to grudgingly review a show he doesn't even want to watch, out of some sense of obligation.

"This will at least let the readers still have their areas for each individual episode for their own comments."

You can ask him (there's a contact form) if he is willing to set up such pages for fan discussions. Maybe he'll agree.

Best of all: He doesn't need to either watch or review the show to do that.
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Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 8:21am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: The Drumhead

"Damn, you're right... property laws are wonderful."

Most of them are, indeed, wonderful. A few of them aren't (and we should fight to change them).

Without property laws, there is nothing to stop a person to come into your house, take your stuff and force you out to live in the streets.

And you'll have nobody to turn to. No police. No courts. Nothing.

Paradise, eh?

"Where would we be if we were obliged to share instead of keeping things we deem 'ours' for ourselves?"

We'd probably be in a world that takes vandalism, looting for personal gain, and burning shops far more seriously.

"You are arguing that BLM protestors who set fires and tear down statues are 'breaking the law' and 'pushing us toward civilizational collapse' "


I'm arguing that disregarding basic fundamental human rights is pushing us toward civilizational collapse.

Whether it's a cop misusing their power to kill a helpless cuffed guy on the ground, or "protestors" who misuse the sympathy they are getting to vandalize, bully and terrorize the innocent.

I couldn't care less whether these violent actions are "breaking the law". I only care whether they are harmful - which they are.

"Trent, have you not noticed that most people don't function on rational debate for their world view but on emotional benefit?"

I most certainly have noticed it.

I have no other explanation for the fact that so many people here, including yourself, are sacrificing their morals and basic humanity for reasons that obviously have nothing to do with logic.

"Ok people maybe BLM and liberal arts students will murder us all and bring about a terrible dictatorship where everybody has to say differently abled or else!"

Not a dictatorship.

A mob rule, like in that Orville Episode, "Majority Rule".

And BLM is not the problem. Can't blame them for being more skillful and successful then others in this ugly game of fighting-for-absolute-power-by-swaying-public-opinion.

The real problem is that this vicious game has become the new normal. People are behaving like ruthless animals, and the public just accepts it as okay. This is downright terrifying.

"Humans like having things, Humans like thinking that they are better than others. Just telling people that having property is bad is in effect just telling people that they should feel bad about something that makes them feel good."

Cut the bullshit, will you?

Having a debate about alternative economic systems is one thing.

Endorsing actual actions in the present-day world which harm other people - is quite another.

This isn't a game. Nor is this some scholarly exercise. We are talking about actual people who are being harmed in the real world, right now.

"Peter and I were really on our way back to an actual discussion about Trek.
He said something thoughtful, I said something thoughtful.
Can we not just do that?"

Apparently, you can't.

As for me, I'm happy to flow with whatever direction the conversation here takes.
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Fri, Aug 14, 2020, 3:47am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

@Joe Menta
"You created this site and you need to keep doing its mission."

This isn't the mission Jammer signed up for, though.

He signed to review a franchise he enjoys, with episodes coming out at a sane pace and a nice breather between seasons.

He has zero interest in Lower Decks, and it is clear that "reviewing all Trek" today means committing to doing reviews all year round. Now there's Lower Decks. Discovery Season 3 starts in October. Then ST:Prodigy, Picard S3, The Pike Show, The Section 31 Show...

Saying that Jammer somehow has an "obligation" to commit to such a mammoth project is downright crazy. Doubly so, when he has zero interest in half of this stuff.
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Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 5:50pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: The Drumhead


"There's nothing special or sacrosanct about laws. It's all just made up stuff, usually to benefit a narrow view. Segments of BLM have torn down some statues, burnt some businesses, wrecked some property and maybe spat on some cops. Is this what's upsetting you? Because the laws allowing those statues, businesses, and properties, and the cops which defend them, are largely silly, arbitrary, and have a bevy of socially harmful knock-on effects."

That's your defense? Saying that the laws which prevent the burning of businesses and wrecking of property are "silly and arbitrary"?

Well, thanks for proving my points so effectively!

"It's the paranoid belief that ... 'monolithic entity with a secret agenda' ... "

Stop being an ass. I've never said anything of the sort.

And I just love it how you called my comment "paranoid" and "fear-mongering", right after you declared that the laws which protect our basic human rights are silly. Man, I gotta admire your gall.

"Interestingly, we have lots of scientific studies showing that while blacks overwhelmingly believe discrimination against blacks has declined, whites believe that discrimination against whites is bigger than discrimination against blacks. The reason, scientists say, is because they see discrimination as a zero-sum game."

So, what do you propose we do about it?

We have two choices:

We can strive to educate people and help them see things the Trekkian way, where diversity and acceptance makes everybody's lives better. A good start would be to remind them of things like the US constitution and the UN bill of rights, and explain how protecting everybody's basic rights makes everyone safer and happier.

Or we can throw all that away. Say "f**k it" to 250 years of slow and steady progress, declare that human-made rules are stupid, and let this "zero-sum game" run its course until we have a winner.

What future do you prefer? Which of these two options is worth spending your time and energy to fight for?

Think about it.
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Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 7:06am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: The Drumhead

@Jason R.
"And apparently no one on this board can either because no one can provide an answer to the question: 'how do we make the police less brutal?' "

Well, I'll say the first step is to return some semblance of normality to the lives of the ordinary citizens, so that this reform could take safely place.

I think the big protests that occured right after the Floyd murder were a good thing. The truth is, back then, nobody cared. Such incidents happened fairly frequently, and nobody ****-ing cared. The cops also walked scot-free afterwords, in many cases.

So it's good that - finally - somebody decided to say "enough!" and made a huge fuss about the whole thing. Now the topic is at the center of discussion all over the world, WHICH IS GREAT.

But now the situation is different. The protests have been heard. And it doesn't take a genius to realize that a country which is plagued with rioters and bullies and vandals is in no position to make huge changes to its police system.

I also fail to see how their current actions are combating racism. Gee, what a wonderful idea! So many people regard us as a race of subhuman criminals, so let's actually behave like subhuman criminals. That will teach them!

In short: Either these guys are very very stupid (which I doubt) or they have some other goal in mind, besides police reforms or actual social justice.
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Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 6:00am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: The Drumhead

"That's the playbook - shriek and yell and tell us the statues must come down because they being there is an intolerable act of "violence" against whoever and simultaneously tell us how we are making such a drama over just a few statues and who cares so much about them? Hardee har they're just some little ol' statues why get so worked up?"

That's exactly the playbook, and it's not just the statues.

If something offends their side, they are entitled to a free pass to do whatever they want about it, including breaking the law.

If something they do offends someone else... well, tough luck.

And the really scary thing is that so many people are falling for it. Otherwise, it wouldn't have had any impact.

See, these people know a thing or two about psychology. They know that if you frame it as "a protest against police brutality" and "systematic racism" then millions will give you a free pass to do whatever you want. Never mind that 99% of their actions have absolutely nothing to do with these goals. People don't care, once the psychological connection was made.

No doubt, this situation is going to go down as classing warning tale in the history books. The story of how a few militant groups managed to manipulate a strong democracy into committing suicide... by cynically manipulating the good heart of its people.
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Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 5:31am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: The Drumhead

"And because Jason and his peers like to use singular voices as representative of the entire left everywhere..."

There are plenty of sane leftists out there. There are plenty of leftists who didn't forget what the words "liberal" and "progressive" used to mean.

See, it isn't "Jason and his peers" who refuses to accept their existence. It is you guys. It is the extreme left who insists on rejecting any person who doesn't accept the extreme craziness you call "the left" from your own lines.
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Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 5:09am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: The Drumhead

"Omicron let's make this clear once and for all.

I stopped talking to you a while back because you insulted me."

That's exactly the problem:

You have this tendency to write broad overconfident statements, and when people call out your BS, you see it as an insult.

Now, I wouldn't have even bothered to bring this up here, if it was just about you and me. Nobody cares about that. I'm bringing it up because this is very common behavior, which hinders the ability to have an actual open honest discussion.

And it's not like the people who do this hold any of their punches, either. Come on, Booming, you never hold your punches either, when you spot somebody else talking bullsh*t.

"But you are right, not talking to you is like a Human rights violation and clearly shows my murderous convictions."

Don't be ridiculous. I myself called the situation "silly".

But it's a silly example of a much bigger problem, which - at times - can cause great harm.

And I do see direct parallels between this and cancel culture. People don't like something, so the follow a two-step process:

(1) Frame that "something" as offensive (insulting, racist, etc)
(2) Use step #1 to rationalize a boycott of that unpleasant thing.

Of-course, sometimes these claims are true. Sometimes forum members are out to troll you and/or derail the discussion. Sometimes a twit really is racist. Sometimes the person you're firing really is a scumbag you shouldn't want to be in your organization.

But these days, many people don't even care whether it's "true" or not. They make these decisions by a gut feeling at best, and some kind of political agenda at worst.

"I, after you behaved poorly, made a choice to no longer talk to you and informed you about that. Instead of respecting that..."

Listen to yourself.

You speak about punishing a fellow commenter for "poor behavior" and expect them to respect that? Seriously?

And here again, there are parallels between this silly little incident and what's going in the world. The way some people feel so entitled is simply mind-boggling. What's next? You're going to demand that I kiss your shoes and apologize?

Sorry, but I'm not going to "respect" any of this sh*t.

(though I'm not actively looking for ways to insult you, either. I'm simply refusing to cooperate with childish demands)
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Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 3:38am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: The Drumhead


Sen-Sors wrote that reply to me, and I'm not a conservative.

Until recently, I always voted for the left in my country. And I will vote for them again, once the current madness (which isn't limited to the USA) stops.

Just because I'm scared to death of what's going on (and the protests are really just the tip of iceberg. The Orwellian censorship and cancel culture are the really scary thing here), does not make me a conservative.

And I'll tell you something else, this:

"The conservative tends to see police violence as necessary, or an understandable accident. "Certain races" commit more crime, are genetically or culturally predisposed to commit more crime, and so get shot more, deservedly or accidentally. To solve crime, they advocate more cops, more gear, harsher sentences."

Jesus... you've just painted 50% of the population as inhumane monsters.

Actually, it's more then 50%, because you label everybody who doesn't agree with the current craziness "conservative".

Is this how you guys convince yourselves that what's going on right now is okay? By demonizing everybody who doesn't agree with you?

How liberal and progressive of you.

"Yeah, you're really set on fighting racism but this whole 'police brutality' things sounds like a lot of hoopla amirite?"

That's deliberately twisting my words to fit your own agenda.

I've specifically stated that police brutality is a problem which should be faught. I've said it more than once.

You know that... yet you chose to ignore that and try to paint me as some kind of racist. Me, and everybody else who dares to speak against the current madness.

And it's not the first time you've done that.

I see no point in continuing this "debate" any further. You're just like Admiral Satie: You see boogeymen everywhere, and are determined to "expose" them by any means necessary.

I do thank you though. You have done more to prove my points, than the most eloquent argument I could have written.
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Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 2:19am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

Even if Seth didn't directly write most of the epsiodes of Family Guy, he was a very active show-runner for many years, and he set that show's tone.

Many avid Family Guy fans say that when McFarlane stopped doing that (which was years ago) the show lost its way. Lost its edge, if you will.

Kinda like the Simpsons. Or Star Trek, come to think of it.
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Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 12:29pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks


The Orville is completely different beast from anything else McFarlane has ever produced, though.

I personally can't stand any of his other stuff, but he really toned down both the humor and the irreverent tone for the Orville. To me, it was toned enough to be an acceptable evil in the first few episodes, and later on it actually became a positive spice on an otherwise decent story.

So you might want to give the show another chance. It just might surprise you.
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Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 11:09am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: The Drumhead

I just find it funny, that a guy who supports signs that say "silence is violence" and lectures others to "put aside their fears" and "engage in conversation", is in the habit of giving commenters he doesn't like the silence treatment.

I also think there's a direct parallel between this silly situation here and the more serious issues we are talking about.

Because that's always the way with these guys, isn't it? Anything they don't like, and this can be for the silliest and pettiest of reasons, they strive to erase from existence. Whether it's a national monument, a professor with an unpopular opinion, or anything else.

All in the name of tolerance, diversity and social justice, of course.
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Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 10:12am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: The Drumhead

@Peter G.
"These types of arguments tend to discredit even the good points the left makes, which is why they should dissociate themselves with these 'allies' asap."

Booming's comparison of these protesters to the victims of the ****-ing holocaust isn't doing their cause any favors either.
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Wed, Aug 12, 2020, 10:02am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: The Drumhead


Context is everything.

Yes, generally speaking, a sign saying "silence is violence" isn't necessarily a bad thing.

But we are currently living in crazy times, where protestors all over the country are in the habit of bullying others into surrendering to their every whim, and viewing any other response as "racism".

We've seen this played out a gazillion times in the past two months.

So yes, when *this* specific crowd is holding a sign that says "silence is violence" that's a form of bullying.

And they are not stupid. They know perfectly well that this is the effect they are creating. They *want* the local population to fear them. That's the whole point of the entire endeavor.

So you want us to have a chat with these guys? No problem. If they put down those deliberately provocative signs and stop trying use intimidation as their only mode of communication, I'm sure Jason would be happy to invite them for a nice cup of coffee.
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