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Glom
Sun, Mar 29, 2020, 5:30pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

A thing I noted ages ago was how two people can absolutely agree on the positives and negatives of something and yet come to wildly different conclusions overall. It's down to the balance of how the positives and negatives weigh and that will be subjective.

So with Picard, for some, the themes it touches on are embraced as valuable while the plot holes are dismissed as niggles that aren't worth obsessing over, but for others, the slapdash nature of the connective tissue tanks the value of the themes trying desperately to get out.
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Glom
Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 7:01pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Couple of problems there.

First, that really backfired didn't it? I mean it could not possibly have gone worse. The Zhat Vash were not fooled for a second (how did they find out about either of them anyway?) and they exploited Soji to get sensitive information that she didn't know she needed to protect.

Second, if he can program them to behave as perfectly passable humans, then he can program them to act like perfectly passable humans while knowing their true identity.

Third, still doesn't explain why Soji was on a Borg cube of all places (other than to shoehorn the Borg into this for no reason) or why Dahj was wasting time with uni applications and having a boyfriend. Why are they not at places that matter more to respective government policy?
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Glom
Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 6:26pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Some points on Nick's points.

Assuming that Jurati's crime will be revisited in later seasons is very generous. The way the episode played out, the actual murderer and the almost genocidal maniac are all smiling part of the crew and best friends. No hint they have any intention of making them facing consequences for their actions. They might pull a Rogue One and retcon consequences in the face of much outrage from viewers, but many of us won't buy that it was the plan all along.

The issue of showing trust in Soji being a theme is undermined by the ridiculous scale of her crime. As I said above, if they could have resisted their urge to make this about the destruction of all life in the galaxy, it could have worked.

Why were Dahj and Soji where they were? Maddox said something about sending them out to monitor anti-synth activity. Why then send Soji to a derelict Borg cube. More importantly, why were they sleepers? That is never addressed and as it stands makes no sense. YMMV whether these supermassive plot holes affect the overall experience, but to many of us, when the narrative is geared around the mystery these things matter.
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Glom
Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 5:12pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

I think Picard looks better than Discovery overall. Something about the way Discovery is shot makes the picture look murky. It's just a bit too stylised. Makes me think of early web 1.0 websites that would use all the visual tricks imaginable like flashing headings and such to make their site look "cool" but it just ended up being obnoxious and painful to read.

Otoh, the production design is excellent. The sets look great and those uniforms are my favourite after the TOS movie uniforms. Also, the way they did the Enterprise bridge was very impressive. Unlike the Abrams movies, it was a credible modernisation of the classic design.
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Glom
Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 1:04pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

James White, I like Keiko.

Better punishment. He watches Duet on loop. He'll either have an allergic reaction to the quality or actually learn something.
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Glom
Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 10:53am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

That was actually handled well in Balance of Terror. Kirk made the decision to enter the Neutral Zone, which would have severe consequences, but the relay time from Starfleet Command was too long he had to make a decision and the burden of making that decision was shown. At the end of the episode, they receive a belated message from Command giving him permission to act on his judgement, which provides resolution.
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Glom
Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 10:25am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Tim, I have gotten a lot of that in recent rewatchings of Deep Space Nine. Particularly in The Way of the Warrior when Sisko defies the Federation Council to intervene in the conflict, thereby dragging the whole Federation into it. A base commander shouldn't be running their own foreign policy.

It was the problem with the series telling bigger stories about the interplay of the great powers. These are decisions for Presidents, but the story still needs to turn on the decisions of our lead captain.
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Glom
Fri, Mar 27, 2020, 9:22am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

Picard solving the problem by Picard-speeching Soji down is a good thing to do in principle. However, it is undercut by the OTT situation that led to it. Soji is trying to commit the genocide of trillions of people. That is seconds away from happening. Picard insisting on trying to solve the problem by telling Soji he believes in her just looks reckless. Someone fire a phaser at that thing, even if Soji is collateral damage! The disappointment of having to take the life of the genocidal maniac doesn't trump the trillions seconds away from death.

If the writers had resisted their compulsion to make it all about the galaxy 'sploding, the scene could have worked really well. Picard is idealistic, but he wasn't a naive idiot and applauded for it on TNG. This was avoided by not creating situations where his idealism would appear to be naive idiocy.
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Glom
Thu, Mar 26, 2020, 2:07pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2

On Daniel's point about the Borg. There are hints of a good story in there. Reclaiming a Borg cube and its victims has a lot of potential. So make that the story of season 2. It is nothing but padding here that only touches on the subject. It wrecks the flow of the primary narrative and really is only there because BORG! What a waste.

Filip touches on a point about the creative process ever since the reboot. It is all writing by checklist. It is all about beats or moments they want to hit and the plot is just an excuse to hit them, no matter how disjointed it ends up being. The beats could be stock like action scenes, emotional scenes or Trek specific things to endear itself to fans like bringing back the Borg or bringing back beloved characters or giving Picard a moment to talk all Picard-like.
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Glom
Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 4:28am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 1

The portrayal of Picard as a character isn't a problem for me.

But I don't think referring to the showrunners' intent necessarily is a response to those who are botheree by it. Even if Picard being different is a decision, it is still perfectly legitimate to say that was a bad decision.
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Glom
Tue, Mar 24, 2020, 8:59am (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 1

More than Soji's mission, why was she made a sleeper? If she was sent out with full knowledge of who she was, she wouldn't have accidentally delivered the location of her homeworld to people who want to annihilate her. Obviously, the same for Dahj.

The reason is likely so they could add another box to their Amazon distribution centre of mystery boxes. If they knew exactly who they were, there would have been no teasing of reveals to come or dramatic scenes of discovering the truth.
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Glom
Mon, Mar 23, 2020, 10:20pm (UTC -5)
Re: PIC S1: Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 1

The problem is that what we see is that Picard is always wrong.

I thought they were going somewhere neat last week by subverting the AIpocalypse. I thought this was turning into an allegory for fear of the foreigners, which is rife at the moment. The Romulans hear a story about synths destroying their creators and then assume that all synths must be like that. That's analogous to the way that people see stories in the news about migrants and refugees committing crimes (think Calais Jungle, think the incidents in Cologne) and think that all migrants are rampaging hordes of rapists. And that fear leads to inhuman hostility to people fleeing terrible wars in their home countries. As messy as the storytelling has been, there seemed to be a theme coalescing. Good solid Trek stuff, tackling contemporary issues through exciting space adventure.

But no. The AIpocalypse is real after all. Picard's Picard speech last week looks like a joke in hindsight. We mustn't give in to fear? At this stage, Narissa looks vindicated. The synth ban was wrong? If Maddox hadn't illegally created synths due to his believing his vanity is above the law, all organic life in the galaxy wouldn't be facing destruction.

Then add to that the fact that Picard delivered the very information Sutra needed to go on a genocidal rampage right to her. Good job breaking it, hero.
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Glom
Sat, May 18, 2019, 2:42am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: The Road Not Taken

Does anyone else think it dumb that alt-Mercer is hung up on Kelly. They went on one date. He had a good time and wanted another but she turned him down. Then he spends the next seven years being lovesick about it.

Because of one date.

Even I think that's pathetic.
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Glom
Thu, Apr 11, 2019, 1:07pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Through the Valley of Shadows

Oh Booming, if only you knew more about Roddenberry, for example the way he enriched himself by screwing over Alexander Courage.
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Glom
Fri, Apr 5, 2019, 6:21pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S7: Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang

I've been moved by some of the comments here. I had thought the Sisko bit was jarring for the longest time, but rewatching the episode, I thought the conversation was succinct and something worthy of further discussion. And now from this thread, I find it less out of place.

Part of the problem is that Star Trek has been poor at world-building for humans. We don't really know much about what human society is in the 24th century. Watching the next episode, I was thrown off by Ross's line, "He'd like nothing better than to see the Romulan banner flying over Earth." This made me picture a 5000km flag mounted at the North Pole like something out of a Bugs Bunny cartoon. I would have preferred him say something like "flying over the Quartier d'Elysée, referring to the President's office (yes, I know there is no such place in Paris now, but rebuilt post WWIII Paris could have such a locality.)

Post-racial needn't mean colour blind, and if human society had been more fleshed out to reflect that, Sisko's perspective wouldn't seem more fitting. Human ethnicity was the concept that dared not speak its name in Trek for so long (unlike nationality) that this occasion certainly stood out. But it didn't need to, and this is a perfect topic for Trek to explore.

Also, there is no reason why they shouldn't have been able to freeze the programme. Felix should be arrested for selling malware.
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Glom
Fri, Mar 22, 2019, 2:17pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: The Red Angel

First, we had magic mushrooms like in Super Mario, now we have time crystals, like in Zelda (specifically Skyward Sword). Clearly the makers are Nintendo fans, so that endears them to me.
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Glom
Thu, Mar 14, 2019, 3:47am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Blood of Patriots

Jammer cuts through to something I've been thinking about the Union. It reminda me of eight year old me's ideas for my own Star Trek. It was as poorly conceived as you'd expect from an eight year old. I didn't even understand the difference between Starfleet and the Federation in those days. It's just "peace" "exploration" and no thought into how that manifests. It means I can't feel like this is a real lived in world.
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Glom
Sat, Mar 9, 2019, 2:19pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S2: Home

Jammer, you know about GDPR? I'm curious how much this has affected people outside of the EU.

Anyway, even as someone who gets triggered by anti-vaxxers, I thought the portrayal of Andrew Wakefield (Disgrace Be Upon Him) as the son of sadistic psychopaths was a bit too much. Also, I am far, far too squeamish for torture porn, so the episode going in that direction out of the blue was most unwelcome, though that's just me.

I was also a bit confused by Mercer and Grimes reacting to the sites. Sure the planet is nice, but it's nothing particularly distinct. Surely you could see similar sights on Earth at the time of the show.

But this show does clearly work better when it plays itself straight. It felt like a very different kind of send-off show and I like that.
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Glom
Thu, Oct 3, 2013, 5:00am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek Into Darkness

E2 "In this case, it felt like the writers wanted to be in the theater with us, elbowing us in the ribs, saying: "see- we include that line, from that thing you liked, see!""

That! Exactly that! My ribs were aching afterwards.

I just found that rather insulting. It's like they thought all that had to do for the fans was drop in references (and incredibly shallow references at that) and we'd be all giddy.

I didn't pay £10 to see an anniversary special. I paid to see something new.
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Glom
Sat, Aug 31, 2013, 9:15am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek Into Darkness

More to the point, is there much evidence of nuTrek getting its own cult following? Agnostics may like these films, but simply liking a film, even liking it quite a bit, isn't the same as becoming a Trekkie-esque fan for them.
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