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Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 7:16am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: The Drumhead

Every country in the world, apart from the USA, that is considered democratic counts only the votes and the party with the most votes chooses the government, certainly in every majority and basically always in a plurality system (the US is a plurality system). In proportional systems it can be different. Two smaller parties more often form a coalition, so there having the most votes does not automatically mean choosing the government.
Is that really that contentious, that the side with more votes from the actual people should choose the government?

"But then I doubt either the mainstream political parties or the voters would be behaving the same way under different rules, would they?"
Surely. In western democracies federal election normally draw between 70-80% in the USA it is around 50%. So there are quite a few problems with the US system.

"And correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Trump also carried a majority (or at least a plurality) of white women?"
Yes, a plurality because of the low turnout in federal elections the last president that probably came close to an actual majority of the population was William Mckinley.

And to the point about women. Yes, Trump in 2016 had a majority in whites in every demographic. Actually the Republicans always won the whites (they sometimes lost college educated or white women vote) since that was researched specifically in 1976 (Bill Clinton came close once). I was talking about current polling. That is what I meant with the strategic problem of the republican party. They are the party of whites. The democrats still get around 40% of the white vote and often 70-80 % or more of all the other demographics.
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Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 2:22am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: The Drumhead

The problem is that the republican party because of strategic decisions during the last 20 years cannot win federal elections anymore. They willfully antagonized right wing Latinos, conservative blacks and a majority of women. Without the electoral college the republican party would have won only one presidential election since 1992, the one in 2004 and that was mostly because of a war bonus. So what do you do if you cannot win? You become more extreme, so that at least anybody of your dwindling base votes for you. You create boogeyman after boogeyman which they did with MLK back then. Black Lives Matter is marxist, a leftist murderolution is imminent, blacks out of the suburbs, the democratic party is super leftist(which to Europeans is laughable, in Europe the Democrats would be a centrist party, Bernie Sanders would be center left/social democrat). The only group where Trump still has a majority are white men without a college education. Problem with going extreme is a) that it is hard to achieve compromise after that and b) that normal conservatives are really not that extreme, so sooner or later the riled up electorate wants the real deal and that was Trump, kind of. Plus cancel culture was always a thing but in the US, especially in the south, it came mostly from the right. Try to open an abortion clinic in Alabama or make jokes about Jesus in certain parts of Texas or hold hands as a gay couple in rural Kentucky and if you are unlucky your life will be cancelled.
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Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 1:37am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

In the military (of at least western democracies), and I speak from personal experience, it is not only allowed but encouraged to disobey if you think an order is unlawful. Disobeying Leyton (coup), Satie (crazy) would be fine even today (don't know about Decker). You are right about Kirk and one could argue that it destroyed his career. To me it looked like Starfleet command let Kirk keep his old ship because he was such a popular figure. He saved the Federation half a dozen times and still retired only as a captain. Any half reasonable person would have become a four star admiral.

But here it seems it is just about the superiors being douchebags. As you say it is a perversion. I find it all only justifiable if you say that it is just a silly comedy show that uses the name as a prop.
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Mon, Aug 10, 2020, 6:01pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

@Karl Zimmermann
"But when the captain doesn't know his name - and doesn't recognize that anyone other than the senior bridge staff took any of the credit - he decides not to tell on Mariner, deciding that camaraderie with his annoying coworker is better than sucking up to an uncaring boss. He becomes slightly more cynical in the end."
But isn't that another sin not unlike what STP did? STP basically said that what we saw on TNG (or DS9) was one side of the coin, the ruling class, the elite, who live nice lifes doing meaningful things, while there are poor people with shitty replicators with high risk of getting shot by creepy robots. Let's not forget, that were the workers at the most important shipyard in the Federation. Can you even imagine how a worse post would look like...

Now this show makes this even more extreme. It says, hey guys it is really just the bridge were power hungry glory hunters try to secure their claim stomping on the lower ranks.
As you say:" He becomes slightly more cynical at the end."
And isn't that Star Trek is really about. :)
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Sat, Aug 8, 2020, 11:11am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

@James
Don't bother that guy is clearly a troll.
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Sat, Aug 8, 2020, 4:00am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

Maybe the Nu-Trekkers should just move to some reddit safe space. You come in here insult people, insult the guy who made this page just for not reviewing it, and then say that your life was changed forever by this stuff.
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Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 4:15pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

@Guiding Light
"if you need to believe that CBS actually pays me to write that I like the show"
I don't need to believe that. It just makes so much sense. Live long and prosper (That is from Star Trek) ;)

" I'll be over here enjoying the new iteration of Star Trek that's accessible for everybody."
If you really talk like that then maybe you are not the best person to judge who is normal. Oh and by the way it is not accessible for everybody, isn't it.
And by the way you came here to insult people. Let's have a look at your very first post:

- inbred community of nerds (a good start)
- I know people loved TNG in the 1980s, but it was always a silly and honestly pretty bad show. (Seems like you hated Trek)
- And shows like TNG, with their disregard for the views and interests of minority communities, with their baseless techno-utopianism are what made Trump and Brexit and all the other things possible that happen today. (oh, so TNG is responsible for Brexit and the Trump presidency and "all the other things")
- Picard goes into a preachy rant about "humanity" that is obviously intended to mock the high-faluting speeches Picard gave in TNG. Because that's all he did: Give speeches and then never act, never help those in need. (Yeah Picard was a total armchair admiral. Sitting in his ready room, filing reports, sipping tea)
- Punishing those who need punishment. (Kill those that you think deserve it. Nice)
- SHE is the moral center of this episode while Picard still is a nostalgic old fool who has to learn that he and his speeches are part of the problem, not of the solution. (Murdering your former lover in cold blood and being the moral center as well. Groundbreaking. How much more leftist could you be than turning her into a female Dirty Harry killing all the baddies)
- And I just hope we get a spin-off show of Annika Hansen travelling through the galaxy and making people pay who deserve it. (Sorry but at the end of Picard Seven said "that she now understands that killing people just because it feels right is bad". Powerful stuff)
- . This is Star Trek for a modern age and I'm glad it makes people uncomfortable instead of just feeding priviledged fourty and fifty-year olds the same comforting lies they have been fed by this franchise for 50 years. (I'm not even 40 and part of a minority. I have probably eaten more shit then you can even imagine)

All these quotes are just from your very first post.
It seems like you really hated Trek and somehow think that Star Trek is responsible for the rise of the alt right and crumbling of western democracy.
I have a degree in political science so let me assure you, that is not so.

@ Nolan
Yeah. I think most people have not the faintest idea what legions billionaires or mega companies can field. And these people talk like PR people.
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Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 1:59pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

@Guiding Light
"they *have* to be corporate PR shills?"
I wouldn't say have to be.

"That's conspiratorial thinking par excellence."
par excellence is maybe a little much.

And maybe you are right, I mean why would one of the biggest media conglomerates on the planet use it's gigantic financial reserves to turn it's extremely important streaming project into a success.
Crazy.

Now tell us more about the wondrous, inspiring and diverse story opportunities that a more modern version of Trek can bring children and people young at heart. Tell us of how many amazing vertical integration possibilities this thoughtful franchise universe provides. And Let us thank all those hard working people who poured their hearts, and yes, souls into this project to create something really special, that hopefully inspires many generations to reach for the stars. Thank you. *applause*
Then Commander Riker makes pizza.
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Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 12:30pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

@Marlboro
Ok, so it isn't just me. Yeah there are quite a few sentences that sound like typical PR speech.
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Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 11:56am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

Is it just me or do a lot of these Nu-lings sound like PR people?
But would a 30 billion $ company really hire a huge number of PR people to post positive reviews everywhere and harass anybody who isn't in love with the new stuff?
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Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 1:55am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

I thought this was great. The colors, the acting, style and storytelling. If you enjoy suffering, you will love this.

And to the people defending this product I just want to say that the first part of this vid is for you and the second part is for "the hater rest".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwYIMTgGUKk
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Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 1:11pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: Hero Worship

@ Peter G.
Thanks for the write up.

To me it just seemed odd. The kid lost his parents. Probably one of the most traumatizing experience a child can have. So yeah I saw his behavior as psychotic. One of the main gripes with this episode is how the kids development is driven by what the plot needs not what seemed realistic to me. I guess it all depends on if you find the relationship between Data and the kid emotionally engaging. I did not.

To quote from Jammer:"It relies on a child guest character we have no connection to, and then uses particularly unconvincing second-rate psychobabble to justify its lame premise."
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Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 11:41am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: Hero Worship

@Omicron
You are easily insulted. My question was just about if you have received any actual medical training beyond being part of what I suppose is some kind of victims support group for psychological malpractice.
Well, have a nice day. I have *studies* to read.

@Jason R.
I saw it a as a psychosis. That the kid actually believes to be an android. I guess the borders between psychosis and very elevated make believe are fuzzy. But hey for really clearing that up we would need a therapist who would probably say that it's just a show and we should get a life.
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Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 6:47am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: Hero Worship

@Omicron
"Now, you say that we don't understand the human mind? I completely agree."
I did not say that. The Human mind is complex which means that something that works in 90% of the cases is still a viable treatment.

To answer your two questions or one big question. Social science research and medical research have very similar research techniques. Both are probabilistic sciences and not deterministic ones. Which means in effect that you never have a 100% effect rate. Both work within strong boundaries because measures done because of scientists/doctors can be harmful.

To give two examples, If you make primary/elementary schools mandatory (in effect a social scientific experiment) then the literacy rate will go up as high as 90-98% (depending on the definition) but not 100%. Reason here would be: people refuse to learn, low IQ, no official status (illegal immigrants) and so on

If you have a very good medical cure then it will still not work for a few percent
and you will never have a pill that cures 100% because the Human body is also very complex.

Personally I have read hundreds of studies that involved children in some form. So I have some understanding. I also almost studied medicine and read psychological or medical studies sometimes because these fields still interest me.
In addition, quite a few told me that I am like a therapist for them which I don't like but have grudgingly accepted at this point.

What is your expertise apart from the described personal experience? And were these experiences with children or with adults describing their childhood?

See why I wanted to end this. Now I have written a page about stuff most people here aren't interested in and I cut it all extremely short already. :(
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Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 4:29am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: Hero Worship

@Omicron
While I understand the sentiment, even though I don't understand under what circumstances one could acquire your insights, in the end it is not a stretch to say that trained doctors will be right more often, than laymen. In other words only because a bridge collapses every now and then doesn't mean that all engineers are incompetent. But that debate is now off topic. I guess we have to disagree on the subject.

@John
Yeah the Human mind is complex. Many people now learn a lot about medical research.

The depiction in the episode is rather unfortunate because of the interrogation of the kid at the end. That the boy blames himself is also something a therapist should assume as likely. It is a fairly common pattern to blame oneself when bad things happen. But outright calling the kid a liar, forcing the kid to have a mental breakdown in front of several people... ouch. That they find out that way how to save the ship and then it's all "back to normal" stuff for the kid. I just find it very convenient.

"I'm probably in the minority in thinking the decline of Trek is very much linked to its unwillingness to question current paradigms of thinking."
I don't think that NuTrek is interested in questioning anything. These are fast and shallow action shows. What current paradigms of thinking do you think they should tackle?
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Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 2:46am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: Hero Worship

I think there are clear signs of a psychosis, on the other hand we both don't know much about that stuff. We both may be wrong.

The resolution is a little clean for my taste. The people who made it said something like:" Data wants to be human, now a kid wants to be Data." That drives the plot, not what kind of mental problem the kid has.

Still for me the episode did not work and Troy often says stuff that sounds sciency but has actual therapists probably up in arms.

It is interesting how many people here wanted to be Data. I guess it makes sense in a way, being an unfeeling robot who is constantly confused by the emotional beings surrounding him (theme: antagonistic relationship to ones own feelings; not uncommon in males, especially in older birth cohorts). Super strength, smart, fast.

I always identified with Picard, though. Reserved, respectful, thoughtful, baldsexy(tm).
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Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 2:17am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

Yeah, I'm enjoying all this quite a bit as well. NuTrek is like a rich sheltered white guy gangsta rapping. You can't look away...

And the Kurtzmanistas like Chronek are really the cherry on top.
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Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 10:10am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S7: Seventh Season Recap

fair and balanced.

Honestly it is a very bad argument. It is full of mistakes. The authors are clearly biased. It shows a lack of imagination.

This one really made me laugh because it is so obviously wrong.
"Firstly, it is already visible now that Western industrial (secondary) societies are turning into service (tertiary) economies and ultimately into financial (quaternary) economies."
When was this written? 1947? Hahaha.
Anybody with a vague understanding of economics knows that this is just nonsense.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-industrial_society#/media/File:Clark's_Sector_model.png

And that the text praises Star Trek Picard at the end and states that what we saw in TNG was just the shiny side of the coin really takes cake. Did CBS hire somebody for this?!
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Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 9:35am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: Hero Worship

Many even more highly qualified therapists will tell you that feeding a psychosis is not the same as exploring trauma under the watchful eye of a therapist.

Data is literally incapable of empathy and does not understand emotions because he doesn't have any. Sending a child in emotional turmoil to him is probably the worst decision a therapist could make. It is equivalent to sending the boy to a well-meaning psychopath.
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Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 6:21am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: Hero Worship

I agree with Jammer here. Never liked it.

Troy obviously found her degree in a cereal box. Not only does she think that it is good for the kid to follow his psychosis but also encourages other to support that mental state. She's gonna get sued, for sure.
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Tue, Aug 4, 2020, 10:59am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S6: Sixth Season Recap

@Mal
Is this legit? Or is this some elaborate fan fic??
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Tue, Aug 4, 2020, 4:31am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

@Marlboro
Sure, but with 18 most people try to become more independent from their parents. Decent or not. And the kids already said that they find TNG boring which is a legit viewpoint, especially at that age. Again for me it is just peculiar that so many people try to make new Trek fans. If it is a nice and pleasant experience for her family. Good for her.

@Susie Rose
Didn't mean to startle you. Just an observation about people trying to make new Trek fans. Have a good day, as well.

@Sen-Sors
Please, PLEASE watch the three worst episodes of Trek with them, tell them that these are the best episodes EVAH and see what happens.
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Mon, Aug 3, 2020, 6:33pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Lower Decks

@ Susie Rose
I'm not angry, at least not about people bringing others into Star Trek. I just find it strange. What 18 year old teenager wants to watch 30 year old shows with mommy and daddy? I would even argue that having it so glowingly recommended makes it harder to enjoy it because it is stressful to know that a positive reaction is wanted. I guess, you know your children best. We had teachers, professors, friends and family members and whatnot here and they all sound a little like the witch in Hansel and Gretel.
Who here was initiated like that? I just watched it and liked it.
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Mon, Aug 3, 2020, 8:18am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S2: Light and Shadows

Have a little faith in the Federation. Starfleet Intelligence confirmed that Georgiou hasn't eaten any Kelpians for at least two weeks and they are almost certain that she never tried to eat Humans.
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Sun, Aug 2, 2020, 7:45am (UTC -5)
Re: Vote to Rename Voyager

Or Star Trek: Patrick Stewart's Brexit guilt trip.
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