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Alan Roi
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 7:47pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

And Cody, I mean that on a guy level.
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Alan Roi
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 7:46pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Cody B

I would only be lying if I claimed I expected you to get anything at all out of what I've written here.
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Alan Roi
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 11:24am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Gladriel

I will check that out next week if there is anything official about if there is any evidence presented at all or just continued rumors of the firing of the showrunners having anything to do other than their budgets going over the top and them abusing their underlings that has been officially stated and that Paradise was allowed to change anything more significant than ramping up character bits (although reaction here has been overwhelmingly angrily and negative to these inclusions) and/or minor tweaks to where the season was already going.
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Alan Roi
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 10:36am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Galadriel

I appreciate that I both appall you and make you envious. I do recall the ability to contain such contradictions was a human trait that often confounded Spock.

As for your research on the web, I can only conclude the likes of Midnight Edge and or Doomcock have been your sources or the sources of your sources (which I expect you aren't naming because of the ridicule that would engender your theory). And if you are going to take them as your 'sources' regarding the idea that the series changed horses in midstream this year I can only be appalled, sorry, these are the same people that stated Disco would be cancelled 2 years ago, and have repeated it every 2 to 3 months ever since among other actions that any rational mind can only see as satire.
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Alan Roi
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 10:27am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Midshipman Norris

My irrational human brain runs things like this

A - I like shows that offer me something useful
B - I don't watch shows that bore me
B - I like the idea of Star Trek, but as often or not its B as opposed to A
C - Does this Star Trek offer me A or B
D - If this show is Voyager or Enterprise was pretty much always B
E - If this show is TOS, Disco or post seasons 2 of TNG or DS9 the answer was mostly A
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Alan Roi
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 10:20am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Amala

Seriously, speaking for the dead? Nimoy happily passed the Torch when Trek 2009 came along. He obviouly did not want the character to die with him. Nimoy was not as selfish as you claim him to be.
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Alan Roi
Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 10:17am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Mertov

As possible answers to your questions

1. When Tilly tells Michael she specifically says "All of us" not "some of us" you can't fit an entire crew, most of which are pretty busy anyway in a corridor intersection.

2. Cornwell could have asked for a beam out attempt to be made. She didn't. This forces one to look at what's happened to her over the past two years. The horrible mistakes she made that did/would have cost so many lives. Ask why she joined Enterprise on what was essentially a suicide mission where there was no need for an Admiral. IMO, she was done.

2. If you watch his scenes with L'Rell carefully in Valley of Shadows, you will see a major reconciliation going on, especially once he's given back the Torchbearer sigil.

3. Well, its the last time they might ever see each other again. I've seen many TV shows and movies where this is done, but YMMV.
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Alan Roi
Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 10:19pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Anthimos

I watched the first four seasona of Andromeda. It had some interesting ideas but suffered from a degree of cheapness. The AI's the had to fight were kind of creepy as I remember they had to use human brains in bottles to use the FTL drive in the series. The ideas that suns were sentient appeared to have come from an old French scifi novel and the Nietzschian's had a knack for coming up wwith amusing names for themselves (Ghengis Stalin for instance). It wasn't, however, close to as contemporaries like Babylon 5 or Farscape, but I enjoyed it a lot more than Voyager.
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Alan Roi
Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 8:56pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Tim C

I pointed out that the show isn't for everyone. And perhaps I'm a lot more prepared for this kind of challenge because I writer/ghostwrite science fiction for a living so coming up with answers that connect ideas come as second nature to me.

And none of the things I delivered here took more than a few seconds of thought. And I can answer all your questions in a blink of an eye without breakinging into mental sweat. Took me all of 10 seconds, no contorting involved.

But again, it appears that you, like the others who responded after I posted consider it an insult to have to interact with any sort of show in this manner. That's OK, I never said everyone would respond positively to the challenge.
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Alan Roi
Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 7:33pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Galadriel

You thought Spock seemed surprised when it was reported the seventh signal had shown up? We get a poker face and him turning to Pike who is wearing a shit-eating grin. it seems clear to me that neither of them or Number One are suprised in the least. As for the argument between L'rell and Tyler, that was done in front of Pike, and could be interpreted as her inflating the threat of sedition in order to protect her son or put Tyler down a peg. It turns out, their kid no long needs protection of any kind. More notably, you ignore the other interactions between Tyler and L'rell throughout the episode, most importantly at the end where they appear to reconcile over the fact that their son gave him back the Torchbearer sigil. Stands to reason that broke the ice between the two and Tyler wasn't asking Pike for permission to contact L'Rell but about to tell him what he was already brokering between himself and her to aid Discovery and Enterprise.

And yes, this isn't stated explicitely, but so what? This has been Discovery all along and it hasn't changed. IMO, its designed to force the audience to think where previous series were spoonfed everything they needed, so little was in question at the end of each ep. Honestly, I haven't been engaged this much in a Star Trek series since DS9 excactly because it keeps me thinking, excercise my brain, which is a *good thing* IMO. Not an easy thing, I'll admit

And why couldn't Michael make her promise or create the 7th signal or finish connecting with Spock young or old? She still has a Red Angel suit at the end of the season last i checked, so what exactly will prevent her from using it if she manages to get her hands on another time crystal in the future?

As for the Empress? How do we even know that it is the Empress who showed up on the Enterprise and fought Leland? For all we know, she's an android using the same tech that Harry Mudd used to create all his androids in The Escape Artist. And even if she is the real MU Georgiou, if past Trek's are any indication, odds are if you toss a cat in the Trek Universe it will hit something that will send it back to time (a slight exaggeration there on my point).

I admit, I'm not a young man, as I started watching Trek as a kid in the 70s, so this requirement to fill in the gaps with hints spread across the series is a boon to my not so young mind. But I will agree, that people who are accustomed to TNG era Trek and even TOS will initially struggle because the shows before never asked viewers to do this much thinking just to get through a season. We were always told what the lesson was each episode and maybe mull on said lesson. Disco is a different beast entirely. So yeah, you either learn to play the game of connect the dots that it deliberately (in my assessment) doesn't fill in (such as were we go from L'Rell's and Tyler's reconciliation with him receiving the torchbearer sigil back to him on the bridge of her ship back in the role of the Torchbearer once again, or I suppose you play the frustrated viewer. I know which game I prefer to play.
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Alan Roi
Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 5:50pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Trent

All the crew of the Disco already abandoned the ship on preparation to blow it up. The only ones who are likely on it are the ones who agreed to go back for the time jump.
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Alan Roi
Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 4:47pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@5

Pike is a exemplary Starfleet officer. I expect he wrote up an accurate report of his experienceon Boreth.

Burnham actually made all the seven jumps within moments of each other. I would theorize that might make it seem like they took place at the same time to the equipment Starfleet has to pick up and measure such phenomena.

Time loops are funny that way. But she stated that they all should "Trust the mystery" so IMO, she walked the talk.

I agree the interrogation was pretty silly at times, but in a very TOS kind of way.

Star Trek, IMO, has always thrown in some fantasy into its science fiction from Catspaw to Q sending the crew to Sherwood Forest. IMO, its a feature following Clarke's Maxim, not a bug.
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Alan Roi
Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 4:39pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Wolfstar

To answer your question about how the Red Angel suit can move through both time and space:

Einstein stated that time and space are two descriptions of the same phenomena. This is basically a science fiction swing at that theory, IMO.
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Alan Roi
Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 4:36pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@ Dragana @Kinematic @ Booming. @Quincy

I don't act like Discovery is perfect. I specifically pointed to one of Trents complaints that I agreed with. I'm just pointing out answers to people's questions as I see them when I have worked out such answers. I will admit that often this series doesn't answer every single question that it brings up, and part of the fun for me is working those non-stated questions out, as opposed to immediately throwing my TV out the window.

Why aren't all ships made of blast door material? maybe take that up with Starfleet engineers, every series they've had some parts of ships that were tougher than others. No one would ever make a blast door with a window? Do a google search and check images, you'll find a number of blast doors with, you guessed it, windows. Kirk and Spock saved the galaxy/universe/federation several times. So did Picard and super Data saved the federation/universe as well on several occasion. Are they not puke worthy gods then themselves?

As for the seven signals, throughout the series the characters have stated that they didn't know where the signals would show up, so I am theorizing that the original estimate of where they were sourced was a widlly inaccurate scan produced by equipment designed by a cuture that doesn't have a firm grip on how time travel works.

But again, I find figuring out how things work is more fun than yelling at my TV. Of course, your mileage may vary.

@jammer @Quincy

Yes Jammer, The Expanse is probably the most envelope stretching space opera on today (at least maybe until Consider Phlebas comes out on Amazon and people get exposed to Ian Banks Culture) even if it also has a plot driven by its own brand of applied phlebotinum that many here complain is too prevalent in Discovery and is definitely worthy of your attention. Much of it is fucking awesome!
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Alan Roi
Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 10:34am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S2: Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow

The show does have lower ratings than Rel, which Fox cancelled. Fox also no longer owns the studio producing the show (they sold it to Disney) so its unclear who would get the tax credit. As well, the reason why the tax credit is so big is that it is a very expensive show to produce. It will be interesting to see how much convincing Seth can do, because I can see him having to also convince Disney as well as Fox to keep this show going.
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Alan Roi
Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 10:26am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@James Smith

We got as much as any Star Trek stories give us. We got to see more of the Star Trek universe and we learned more about the characters.
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Alan Roi
Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 10:24am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Lynos

We all become the people we are by the influence of people we have known.
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Alan Roi
Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 10:23am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Kinematic

We've seen plenty of ships in Star Trek that have been damaged by photon torpedos and are still partially intact. However Federation starships are built, its enough not to be hit by a photon torpedo and go poof.
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Alan Roi
Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 8:20am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@ Trent

1. I won't defend that

2. Which they put in a box, as they regularly do with overly messy technology and have done so in every series.

3. Its been some time since she 'killed him'. So she's a bad emperor, been there done that. Or she's had time to kill off all those who opposed her. Been there, done that.

4. Saru learned how to operate Kelpian tech all on his own in a short period of time, went on to learn 100 languages and be expert at all sorts of advanced tech. Precedence was set at their race's potential.

5. The door is called a BLAST door. What do you imagine a BLAST door is capable of stopping. A BLAST maybe? Pike also admires acts of self-sacrifice. We've seen him display this admiration all season.

6. So what? Do you think there are anti-augment laws in the Terran Empire like there are in the Federation. That's like complaining a person who spent their formative years on Vulcan, a planet with a heavier gravity than Earth, wouldn't be stronger than a typical human being.

7. Its the 23rd century, they can decorate the Golden Gate Bridge however they want.

8. Lots of characters have created loops in Time Travel stories, and in Trek as well. But only Burnham gets called a God? Such worshipfulness.

9. The Enterprise and crew saves the Universe just as much and repeatedly during Kirk's era. This is what the Enterprise does. When was it ever a humble exploratory vessel. For example, In Erand of Mercy it was the vanguard of the fleet in a war that was about to start with the Klingons.

10. The Enterprise and Disco have been established as capable of taking a pounding. And none of what Control threw at them could be described as capital ships.

11. Its clear to me that the best way to take out Control was to get all its ducks in one place. I imagine that occured to Admiral Cornwell and Captain Pike as well.

@Daya

12. Precident was set that the nanobots have been prepared every time before they are injected. Not prepared, perhaps not easily injectable.
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Alan Roi
Sat, Apr 20, 2019, 8:04am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Daya

This season's temporal logic isn't any crazier than City on the Edge of Forever's IMO, its just a little more complex.
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Alan Roi
Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 3:33pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Chrome

What are you talking about re: forgetting the Spore Drive at the end of the episode? The only person who can fly the thing is in sickbay in a coma with a sucking chest wound. Exactly how were they going to use it with him in that shape?
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Alan Roi
Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 6:10am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Booming

"Georgiou laughing about Lecon slowly disintegrating. Georgiou highlights the problem that shows or movies who make everything dark often have. You start to like the bad guys/gals because they are the only ones who have fun."

Its not really a big problem. All you need to do is watch Blakes Seven to see that characters like Avon and Villa who aren't 'good guys' can work just as well as their far more more moral counterparts Blake and Jenna or Cally
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Alan Roi
Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 4:38am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@MadManMUC

..."Saint Michael Fucking Burnham"...

This is the best reason I can see that CBS needs to stop making any furhter attempts to offer any deference to thr detractors of their efforts.
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Alan Roi
Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 2:46am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Trekwatcher

We do get small scale intimat stories with the Short Treks. FYI, there will be two more short treks coming up shortly, and it appears that there will be some being prepared in advance of the Picard series as well.
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Alan Roi
Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 2:43am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S2: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2

@Uxbridge

Yes, you missed the scene with Burnham's mother's log where Dr Burnham stated she saved the churchpeople in an attempt to prove that she could change the past.
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