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Nukey Shay
Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 3:48am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S2: Samaritan Snare

@Peter & William
There's nothing so deep in this episode. The whole cast knew it was a dumb excuse to have two completely avoidable crisis situations going on simultaneously. Besides, it was already established in Conspiracy that Picard didn't know Beverley at the academy (one of the initial questions to prove he's not an imposter)...so at least they didn't later try to recon that into the brilliant Tapestry story. A cookie for trying tho...which showed more effort than McCullough put in.

Wheaton or Stewart shared a bit of trivia about filming this travesty. They did a little adlib when they arrive at Starbase Whocares...just for kicks. When they go up to the door, Wesley glances at Picard when the conventional door doesn't open automatically. Annoyingly, Picard opens it for him. Like Crosby's wave goodbye to the audience in the final scene of Symbiosis, you can't unsee it now.

"Our door is broken...can you make it go?"
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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 2:56am (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S1: Broken Bow

@Nukey Shay

Glad to see a fellow Trekkie rediscovering Enterprise! That show is criminally under-rated in my opinion (and yes, "Marauders" is regarded as one of the weaker episodes of the series).

By the way, TOS's "The Man Trap" was never intended to be the show's first episode. The true pilot (and first episode by production order) is "Where No Man Has Gone Before", which is a far better introduction the ship and crew than the salt vampire one.
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Nukey Shay
Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 12:47am (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S1: Broken Bow

Longtime ST fan. Grew up with TOS already in syndication, stuck with TNG even after suffering though it's first season (never understood why EAF is often regarded as a strong opener, when it's plot was so painfully obvious to me!), enthralled with DS9's intricate series arc after initially dismissing it because "this is no starship"...and hoping that VOY would eventually shape up. The latter could have been so much better if they stuck to the original premise...stranded in the DQ and forced to limp back to AQ...enduring accumulated battle damage and dwindling resources the entire time. So when Enterprise came along and I heard the opening theme...I was reminded of Buck Rogers immediately and switched it off. Only catching glimpses of the show here and there. Usually, during some racy sequence like the decon chamber nonsense which only reinforced this comparison. Tho I did catch the Marauders episode nearly in it's entirety. The "Klingon bullies" pretty much sold the series as being a Buck Rogers ripoff as far as I could tell. Oh yeah...they won't be coming back now that Archer and co taught you guys to fall gracefully.

Giving it another shot, after seeing that DISC is such a jumbled mess of a soap opera.

To my amazement, this was a pretty strong opener that sets up it's characters well. Even though nothing was ultimately accomplished in that Klingons would "rather die than be rescued"...all of the crew is effectively defined right when you first meet them. Could be the strongest starting episode of any ST series, in that regard (I wasn't out of diapers when Mantrap first aired, but I can't see how that story impressed anyone very much). Voyager's opening comes close (yes, really!), but the whole "Caretaker" thing is rather forced instead of using an established method of stranding them (like DS9's own wormhole, for example).

I still don't like the theme, tho. I keep having flashbacks to all those models making doe eyes at the camera.

One additional gripe:
Didn't early TOS episodes refer to them as Klin-Gon instead of Kling-On? The correct pronunciation used here kinda ruins the theory that they were just reflecting their own inexperience in dealing with little-known species in TOS S.1.
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Nukey Shay
Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 11:37pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S1: Sleeping Dogs

No. They developed it on their own after the time of Kahless. Even non-fictionally, war is a boon to developing tech...the "enlightenment" they gained from Kahless kept them honor-bound enough to prevent them from annihilating themselves. Developing warp capability in order to conquer new worlds.

In Kirk's time, there was an exchange of technology going on with the Romulans...but not as much as to declare them allies canonically (at least, not at that time). More like a mutual respect between the two, I guess. So you get Klingon-inspired Romulan ships in TOS, Romulan-provided cloaking by the time of STIII (yes, I know that the "S.S.Bounty" was originally scripted to be a Romulan ship helmed by Romulans). This respect would be challenged somewhat when the Khitomer conspiracy revealed that Romulans were partially involved in the attempted takeover of the Klingon Empire...the "mutual respect" completely dissolved following the attacks on Narenda III's outposts, and subsequent Khitomer massacre. Worf does state that the Romulans "were supposed to be allies" at the time of this massacre, tho…so one existed between the two Empires at least before those attacks.
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SouthofNorth
Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 10:00pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S2: Samaritan Snare

The Pakleds are the only species the Borg decided not to assimilate.
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Trish
Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 8:20pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S3: Is There In Truth No Beauty?

@Chrome

I even checked to see if the same composer was involved with both shows, but nope.

Subconscious plagiarism?
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Trish
Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 8:08pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S3: For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky

I think Springy has a good point about the title. Think of it as spoken by McCoy himself: "My world has been hollow, but I have touched the heights of happiness."

I think it was meant to be his Paradise Syndrome, but it didn't really convey the poignance of the road not taken. Perhaps if Natira, like Miramanee, had died … But that would have been just the same story, wouldn't it?
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Mike
Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 4:50pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Rapture

I enjoyed thie episode a lot, but kept waiting for the inevitable reveal that Sisko was somehow being manipulated by anti-Federation Bajorans trying to prevent Bajor from joining the Federation. I still think that bee-yotch Winn may have had something to do with it.

Anybody have a list of all the DS9 episodes touching on Bajoran faith, the emissary, the prophets, orbs and stuff?
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Eddie
Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 4:40pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S3: Destiny

I think DS9 suffers from some seriously lazy writing. I understand the Bajorans seeing the Prophets in religious terms. If some incorporeal alien that could tell me the future showed up I'd probably think they were God, too. But the Starfleet crew (especially Sisko) shouldn't be feeling this religious awe that the writers are so desperately trying to force.

Starfleet has tons of experience with incorporeal lifeforms, energy beings, etc... all the way back to TOS. And beings that can tell us the future or are weird about time? Tons of those on record, too. Remember that guy Q? He's been around and well documented for years at this point. Sisko talked shit to him and punched him! Now I'm not saying Sisko and crew should ignore the Prophets. If someone is trying to relay future intel to you, even if it's heavily couched in metaphor, you wouldn't just ignore it. But the sense of religious awe is completely misplaced.

No Starfleet officer would give this subject matter a second thought in religious or spiritual terms; everyone's used to various intangible time-aliens by now. This is all probably required first-year reading at the Academy or whatever. The idea that anyone other than Bajoran civilians would have this wide-eyed look of mysticism on their face as they wonder to themselves "Maybe they really are divine?" is absurd. It all seems forced and that's not a good way to develop characters.
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Nukey Shay
Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 3:18pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: A Matter of Time

Has anybody considered the alternative explanation to why the crew appears to be so boneheaded in regards to giving Ras so much freedom to wander about the ship to take whatever he wanted?

Initially, Troi senses that he's hiding something. Picard notes that somebody from their future would have many things to hide...but many things does not equal something. So they would already have cause for concern...a tipoff to keep watch on his behavior.

Then there are things that he unconvincingly tries to act impressed about...such as the placement of objects in the ready room, and the painting of the EntD…"The original!"...Picard's reaction is that there is nothing special about it.

At the same time, he acts unimpressed by 24th century tech, comparing Data to a Model-T (or A, as Data corrects him). Soon after, scoffing "Is that the fastest he can read?". This doesn't quite mesh with his claim to be a historian...where period artifacts are given careful attention.

But later, he's surprised that Data can follow nearly a dozen symphonies simultaneously (?).

Meanwhile, tech devices start disappearing. Often when characters are preoccupied, but Data in particular -would notice- when something is missing after his visits. Especially the tricorder in engineering.
Heck, he just takes a regenerator in plain view of Crusher...waving it to her on his way out of sickbay.

Anyway, the plot B plan fails to fix the planet and puts an even worse crisis into action. Picard uncharacteristically begs Ras for the correct solution...and is turned down flat. I happen to believe that Picard is smarter than the average Ferengi, tho. He could have been using this opportunity to see if Ras is going to slip. And he does. Simply by being there, he is already influencing how things are playing out...a fact that Ras is virtually oblivious to.

It could very well have been that Picard and co. were just giving him lots of rope to hang himself with. It is mentioned that as soon as he opens the door to his pod, everything he'd taken was deactivated by the ship's computer. So he was never going anywhere except to the nearest starbase.
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Mike
Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 1:40pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: The Ascent

Below average episode for me. I’m a Quark fan, Odo is so mean to him. OK Quark is a shady character, but Odo hates him so much he takes such perverse pleasure in seeing him go to jail, he’s willing to travel 8 days just to see him get what he deserves. Than it turns out Odo wasn’t even told what the proceedings were really about. Yeah right.
Quark for the win!!
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Nukey Shay
Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 6:47am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S1: Conspiracy

@Peter

Behaving like children? Yeah, that could fit for acts 2 and 3. Yet this takeover had been in motion for months without anybody "in charge" noticing according to act 1...apparently so inconspicuously that the pattern had surprised Data as if it had been akin to a genius masterwork. It doesn't fit that they were so ill-equipped to be brought down by 1 lone hero and his sidekick, 50's B-movie style. According to the aliens themselves, they were waiting for the Enterprise to come to them...the attitude of those who believe that they'd already won. The pieces don't fit.

And why was only one parasite brought on board? Why was it meant for Crusher anyway? It's not like she was in any real command of the ship. True, she had the power to pull people out of command when deemed unfit...but with the aliens acting so irrationally, it would be a hard sell to convince the rest of the crew to go along with such a decision.

Anybody else notice that the Vulcan admiral's neck pinch didn't work on Riker? WTF is up with that?

Lamest invasion ever...after such a promising opening. Not worthy of a followup.
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Springy
Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 12:18am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S3: Captain's Holiday

Eh.

An OK ep. Sorta boring.

The lighthearted moments were good. Watching Picard try to relax was funny, there were some humorous lines and nice moments.

Not a fan of Vosh. She's basically a dishonest person, no matter how you look at it, and I can't see the charm. It's the false charm, the fake bravado, of a grifter. I liked Picard much better with that lawyer . . . Phillipa.

The technobabble and time travelers: Not Good.

Onward.
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batfunk
Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 5:35pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S7: Endgame

I watched it. His new version of Endgame is much better. Janeway trying to save Galaxy from Borg Apocalypse is more relevant than destroying future to save egoistically a few friends.Borg Apocalypse reminds me a fine episode of Tng, where Riker tries to survive in an alternate reality.
If you add the promised reunions(Paris father and son, Tuvok and his family...), Voyager destruction and my bittersweet moments and ending, you obtain a fine episode, with great issues, action and believable human behaviors.
On the other end, his original final episode is underwhelming:no great issues and it's a rehash of a previous Barclay episode. Not good.
A finale episode and preferably a last season should resolve all issues satisfactorily.last season and Endgame does not:Paris/ father janeway/chakotay doc/seven Tuvok/family and on and on... Strangely, only Neelix got a great conclusion in a full episode!!!

Finally, my re-watch of Voyager didn't change my first opinion :it's a fun but inconsequential show, far behind Tng and DS9, with very few great episodes.
But better than Enterprise and Discovery (ugh)

See you in a few months to deliver my own finale episode of Enterprise, after it's first re-watch.... Lol
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MusicalTurtle
Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 4:28pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S3: The Search, Part II

Whether it was intentional or not, the scene when Bashir/Sisko and Dax/O'Brien were reunited felt a bit off to me - it was the big grins and everybody seeming just strangely light-hearted, but I can't quite put my finger on exactly *why* or really justify it. If it was intentional, well done to them giving a subtle tip-off. If it wasn't ... heh, maybe a happy accident? After that everything seemed to be happening too quickly with our main characters almost a bit out of the loop, so I was wondering what the twist was right up until the reveal.
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Yanks
Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 3:11pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S7: Endgame

Very nice discussion all.

Steve Shives has a couple of interesting ideas here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqpjYFki2Pg
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Batfunk
Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 8:08am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S7: Endgame

I love your ending, grumpy_otter, specially the Tuvok part(I thought exactly the same scene).
But I think your version is not enough bittersweet. We learn with Endgame that Voyager lost a few officers, I think it's fair.My version would include the loss of the innocent Harry.
The loop wouldbe complete with another Caretaker sending the crew back. Janeway must destroy Voyager to permit the crew's return(I don't know how and why...), another heartbreaking scene. Maybe with Chakotay preventing Janeway to sink with her ship, (by declaring his love?) .
I imagine Harry's parents looking for him in the crowd at the dock.Then a sad Janeway arrives in front of them... No words.. Just her sad face. Heart breaking...
I think also that some officers, after so many years of action,as war veterans, will not adapt to civil life, specially Janeway. After a year of living with CHakotay holidays, unsatisfied with her new life, she broke and take the command of another ship.
A final meal scene, with the ancient bridge crew, before Janeway departure, with a vacant seat for Harry, a toast to the lost crew, emotional crossed looks and a large final shoot of the table, where life resumes with enjoyed talking and smiles.
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Booming
Wed, Oct 16, 2019, 1:31am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S2: Shadowplay

@MusicalTurtle
To be fair Bareil is good looking and Vedek's for the Bajorans are revered figures.
I think they really clicked in the episode "the circle" in the monastery. I think that episode shows that Kira because of the her life of fighting feels inner turmoil. Bareil is the cure for that. He is good and kind man but he is most of all calm, has inner peace and is in harmony with the world. Three things Kira, the war veteran, definitely wants.
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Springy
Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 11:18pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S3: Allegiance

Watching and commenting

--Picard gets xeroxed. Yuh-oh.

--He's being kept in a box and fed cherry jello discs.

--Xerox-Picard acting just ever so slightly off, takes them off course.

--"STOP, we mean you no harm!!!" Some really, really hokey dialogue in the box.

--Xerox Picard asks Beverly to dinner. Intimate dinner. In his quarters. Low lighting. Sexy clothes. Sexy talk. Romantic music. The old "would you care to dance" maneuver . . . a kiss, followed by . . . showing Beverly the door. Beverly looks mystified. Don't try to figure out, Bev.

--Xerox-Picard seeming less and less like the original, as he sings in Ten Forward. Riker is suspicious.

--Lots of boring, badly written, predictable dialogue in the box.

--The part on The Enterprise is definitely more interesting, as we learn a bit about how the crew sees their Captain.

--The "we're in a lab, being studied," solution very hokey and reminiscent of an old Twilight Zone.

Prisons: Self made, other-made.

Allegiance? The captors say they're studying leadership - leaders and followers, how it all works. I suppose the ep is meant to study that too? What allegiance costs, and demands of, both leaders and followers, what its limits are, how priorities are established.

I wonder what they were studying by asking Beverly to dinner?

Some nice moments, but below average overall.
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HC
Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 8:58pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S7: Phantasms

Just caught this one again on TV, it's fine. Stewart's direction does a lot to elevate a fairly mundane script, though I did enjoy Data's new developments, even if the resolution sees him doing a plot thing rather than evolving as a character. Points for outright weirdness, even if the Braga-isms get a bit much (Freud, interdimensional bugs), and I do like this looser later-season Picard. Shame the movies didn't lean into that side of him more.
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LisaM
Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 5:54pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S5: Course: Oblivion

Regardless of how people feel about this episode (it was just on TV today), I kind of wished the crew managed to get the time capsule off safely and that Voyager, upon arriving at the spot where they found only odd debris, did find that capsule. Seeing them find out that the duplicate ship and crew managed to leave their home world and experience adventures different from our crew and ship would have been interesting to me.
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MusicalTurtle
Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 4:16pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S2: Shadowplay

The Odo storyline actually made me cry the first time round! The rest of it was fluff but enjoyable - apart from Bareil. I never understood what Kira saw in him, until we got Mirror-verse Bareil - and then I felt cheated that Prime-verse Bareil was so wooden and uninteresting. Very strange.

I'm glad they didn't delve into the issue of sentience/life for holograms. It was sufficient that they were real and worth restarting, worth continuing their existence.
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Brian Lear
Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 3:41pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S1: Dear Doctor

Imagine there are two patients, both in need of a heart transplant to live. One of them has a lethal disease that will kill him in just a couple years. The other patient does not have the disease and will likely gain decades of quality life years with the new heart. There is only one heart available. Which patient should get it?

This episode initially asks us to judge the relative utility of saving a race that will eventually die out anyway, versus doing nothing. It then seamlessly transitions to asking us to consider the larger question of whether we should even be concerning ourselves with the first question in the first place. And I think that's where a lot of people fell off the train. The first question wasn't really answered. But the second question was. They decided not to answer the first question, because they couldn't. Not that time, not that place.

That non-answer is what really threw people off this episode. But I urge those of you in that category to reconsider. My enjoyment of this episode does not hinge on the decisions made. If it does for you, I suspect you are too close to the material, and not seeing the big picture. Take a few steps back and re-watch it. Try not caring whether they answer the question or not, and just enjoy watching them wrestle with it. It's the journey people, not the destination.
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Chrome
Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 10:22am (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S3: Is There In Truth No Beauty?

@Trish

Your comment inspired me to watch this and it’s very close indeed. I believe the music you’re referring to is called a leitmotif. It’s used whenever Dr. Miranda is on screen (especially when we see her power).
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Chrome
Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 10:10am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Let He Who Is Without Sin...

It’s really just another problem with the episode. Here’s a chance to get into Risian culture and explain why people are freely giving away their bodies and why that might be “decadent” from a certain point of view. But it never gets there.
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