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Jammer's Review
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
"Children of Time"
****
Air date: 5/5/1997
Teleplay by Rene Echevarria
Story by Gary Holland & Ethan H. Calk
Directed by Allan Kroeker
Review by Jamahl Epsicokhan
"Are you the son of Mogh?"
"Yes."
"Is it true you can kill someone just by looking at them?"
"Only when I am angry."
-- Inquisitive kid and Worf

Nutshell: An excellent, original science fiction story with hard choices and well-realized arguments. Very, very intriguing and powerful.

Color me impressed. "Children of Time" is another highlight of the season, and, again, another show that ranks among the best of the series' installments, a praise that I've now used four times this season--and meant every time. This is one of the most fascinating, original science fiction stories I've seen in quite some time, and it's absorbing and compelling pretty much from beginning to end. High praise is in order for another wonderful script by Rene Echevarria (as well as to Gary Holland and Ethan Calk for story credit).

The episode is another Trekkian time manipulation episode, but one of the best ones on record, up there with the likes of emotionally gripping time-travel character shows like "The Visitor" and "Past Tense, Part I."

The setup is as follows: Returning to the station from a reconnaissance mission in the Gamma Quadrant, the Defiant (carrying all the DS9 senior officers, of course), deviates from its course to investigate a planet with some odd energy readings. Dax assures Sisko that the risk of entering orbit is minimal--definitely worth investigating for what may be a rare scientific discovery. The Defiant is snagged in an energy field, and seconds later they receive a hail from a human colony with more than 8,000 people. The crew beams down to the planet, where they're told by the colony leader (Gary Frank) that the entire settlement's citizens are descendents of the Defiant crew. According to the leader, in two days when the Defiant attempts to leave orbit, the ship will encounter an anomaly that will send it back two centuries through time. The Defiant will then crash on the planet. With no means to escape (the wormhole doesn't even exist at that point), the crew will decide to begin life anew. Two hundred years later, this history is revealed to the crew before it happens. The leader of the colony, by the way, is Yedrin Dax--the current host for the still-surviving Dax symbiont.

Yedrin has a theory that will allow the Defiant to escape this destiny and still preserve the colony. Through a complicated technical procedure that can be executed at the time the ship encounters the anomaly, a duplicate Defiant will be formed; one will travel back in time and crash, while the other will safely break orbit and resume its course.

This is a clever concept to begin with. It's another interesting example of the time paradox that leads one to question where and when events begin and what true causality is based upon. (Is Yedrin, for example, changing "destiny" by informing Sisko what will happen before it does?)

But this is only what begins to make this episode the success that it is. "Children of Time" takes a turn that makes it a real classic--a truly compelling story that seeks to raise some very tough questions.

It turns out that Yedrin is lying. Dax discovers Yedrin's logs are forged and the theory will never work, and that he has hidden his attempt to preserve his colony at the expense of the Defiant's imminent crash--and also Major Kira's life. Kira will die, it's revealed, in the next few days if she doesn't receive some serious medical treatment for a radiation surge she was subjected to on the Defiant. Her grave just outside the settlement proves it.

The rest of the episode is about this dilemma. If the Defiant avoids the anomaly and doesn't go back in time, the entire colony of 8,000 will cease to exist--or, rather, will never have existed. Yet if the crew chooses to save the colony, they also choose to abandon their lives as they know them--and Kira suffers a death sentence.

Questions arise. Difficult questions, such as: Who has the right to ask Kira to die? Would it be worth it? Is this colony even truly "real"? Would preserving this colony be the "right" thing to do? Is it the crew's destiny to do so?

Such questions define this episode, but what's also stellar is the way these questions are presented by the various characters' situations. For example, Yedrin's deception turns out to have a very personal concern beyond his obvious need to preserve his society: He has repressed guilt--Jadzia Dax's guilt for getting the Defiant into the situation in the first place, without being certain of the risks. A very interesting notion. Yedrin explains to Sisko how for months Jadzia couldn't even look at him without thinking how Jake would never see his father again. Gary Frank's performances is one of the scene's highlights, and Terry Farrell's reaction shots are quite emotionally revealing.

Then there's Kira's dilemma. She visits her own grave, wondering if perhaps it is her destiny to give her life to save this colony. She asks herself how she can justify saving her own life at the expense of 8,000 people. Have the prophets laid out this path for her to take? Would avoiding the time anomaly be avoiding her destiny? These are some very appropriate and well-realized questions--and completely consistent with the major's character. This aspect of the episode truly had me fascinated.

In fact, everything about this show just clicks right into place. In addition to Dax's and Kira's binds, Worf finds himself sympathizing with some colony residents who have chosen to live the Klingon way, following the traditions of the Sons of Mogh. I appreciated the episode's nod to cultural identity within this colony, and I felt for these Klingon followers when they revealed that ceasing to exist because their parents were never born does not constitute an "honorable" death.

There's also interesting, substantive discussion once Kira goes public with accepting her fate to die. The crew argues the situation further in a wonderfully thoughtful scene that displays the main characters all being honest with one another (although I must admit that I also wondered what the Defiant's unseen 40 crew members had to say about the situation). Kira believes that they should follow the path of the prophets. "With all due respect, Major," O'Brien replies, "I don't believe in your prophets. I have a wife and kids back home." There is, of course, the question of whether these people are as "real" as people who "already" exist.

Hearing this dialog was fulfilling. Here was a time story not mired in technobabble plotting (cf. Voyager's "Before and After") or superficial adventure romp (cf. Voyager "Future's End"), but about looking destiny in the eye and making tough, important choices. I greatly appreciated how every character felt big pressures.

The Arbor Day commercial--er, "planting day" scene, featuring the colonists and the crew working together in the final day before the big decision, was a tad overlong and slightly exceeded my syrup tolerance. I would not, however, call this a weakness of the episode--just some schmaltz in a good-sized dose. It serves its purpose by making the crew realize they can't simply go home and snuff this colony out of existence; instead they suddenly find themselves obligated to travel back in time.

But that brings us to the issue of Odo. That is, Odo from the alternate timeline. He has been living on the planet 200 years, and has been longing to see Kira again. This Odo is quite different. He's much more open with his feelings, and he immediately reveals to Kira how he loves her, and has always loved her. (The Odo from the normal timeline is in no position to intervene; he is incapacitated by the planet's energy field--something the alternate Odo overcame long ago.)

Now, as some may know, I've never been terribly enthused about the writers' hints for pairing up Odo and Kira (and I realize I may be in the minority as fans go). I preferred their sibling-like affection back in the second season, and I'd thought with last season's "Crossfire" we had seen the situation put to rest. When I saw the trailer last week featuring the big "declaration," I thought we'd be in for the beating of a dead horse taken to a new level.

However, I couldn't have been more wrong. Everything about Odo's feelings in this episode rings absolutely true and fits beautifully in the context of the story. Plus, there's no simple solution to Odo's fear of not having his feelings returned (despite the fact the show reveals early on that Kira and Shakaar have broken up). Kira does not throw herself at Odo or any such nonsense--she is understandably confused. In a reasonable notion, Odo tries to convince Kira to change her mind--so that the Odo from the normal timeline won't have to watch Kira die again. But Kira can't do it if it means wiping away the colony's existence.

The most fascinating thing about this episode is that it's 100 percent character-driven. This is not an episode where a technicality saves the day, or a last-minute solution makes the choices easier. This is a show where a decision must be made, and everyone has to live with the consequences. I can't stress how much this worked in the episode's favor. A lesser effort might've taken the easy way out, but "Children of Time" does not cheat, and not cheating makes the drama that much stronger.

The ending (since, obviously, the crew must ultimately not be stranded in the past) throws a twist on us that manages to preserve the necessary requirements of the series while also being completely satisfying. The crew's flight plan is unsuspectingly reprogrammed, causing them to veer away from the temporal anomaly and break orbit. The colony vanishes without a trace. It never existed--period. The irony is that the person who reprogrammed the flight plan was someone from the alternate timeline (now there's a paradox for you)--or, more specifically, it was Odo. He did it so Kira wouldn't have to die.

Frankly, the implications of Odo's actions scare me a little bit. And, in the rather intense final scene, Kira's reaction when the "normal" Odo informs her of his counterpart's deed is absolutely believable. ("He did it for you, Nerys. He loved you," Odo tells her. "That makes it right?!" she demands. "I don't know," he replies, desperately. "He thought so.")

In fact, it's hard to imagine how Kira will look at Odo again without realizing what his counterpart did, and thus what Odo himself may be capable of. The implications here are neither pretty nor easy--and that's exactly why they're so wonderful. There's almost the sense that Odo passed a judgment that wasn't his to make, trading 8,000 lives for one. There are many interesting dynamics to ponder concerning the alternate Odo's actions, and this thoughtfulness is perhaps the most interesting aspect of "Children of Time." The episode is a tragedy of sorts, and once it's over, it leaves behind questions with tough answers that resonate, working completely plausibly with character history, and making extremely good use of the given situations.

With compelling performances all around and its brilliant script, "Children of Time" is stellar work--nearing perfection.

Previous episode: Soldiers of the Empire
Next episode: Blaze of Glory

38 comments on this review
Ospero - November 3, 2007 - 10:18 pm (USA Central Time)
I recently saw this one again. Absolutely stellar piece of character work, and proof that Star Trek in general, and DS9 in particular, CAN do innovative science fiction stories without tossing plot and characters out the window. One of the series' very best.
Admirable Chrichton - November 21, 2007 - 08:34 am (USA Central Time)
I can't understand why this episode is so popular. I've watched it a few times now and it doesn't do anything for me. I don't hate it, but I'm not enamoured with it either. If there is some profound "X factor" to this episode its gone right over my bloody head.
Jayson - February 12, 2008 - 04:32 pm (USA Central Time)
I agree with Admirable, this like most DS9 is a good episode but it doesn't rank up there with In The Pale Moonlight. But the difference of opinion is interesting when it comes to this series. Alot of fans seem to love The Vistor while I don't and Jammer in particular isn't a big fan of Ferengi episodes but I love them. Point being the fans of this series all have their favorites yet still love the show just the same.
Anthony2816 - April 23, 2008 - 02:39 pm (USA Central Time)
Plot hole: At the end, Odo tells Kira that it was the later version of himself that reprogrammed the Defiant, dooming the descendants. However, that means that Odo knew that *before* the Defiant left the planet, as he learned it from his later self. Therefore, he could have warned the crew before it happened.
Andreas - April 27, 2008 - 05:24 pm (USA Central Time)
No he couldn't, Anthony2816, because Odo couldn't take his solid form while being inside the barrier
Dan - February 2, 2009 - 04:54 am (USA Central Time)
A nice episode, not sure if worth the massive praise here but it is good.
The thing that gets me is how 48 people become 8,000 in two hundred years. I mean, that's seriously going for it.
Ram - February 8, 2009 - 08:52 pm (USA Central Time)
Dan's question is interesting. Being a geek, I did some simple calculations, assuming people have kids by 35 yrs and live for 70 yrs, 48 people will become ~350 in 200 years if couples have 2 kids each. But if they have 3 kids each, they'll become around 8000. 4 kids each, they become ~30000!
Kyle - February 19, 2009 - 07:38 pm (USA Central Time)
Ive just been watching DS9 recently. I have a huge problem with this ep. Like many, I cant believe future odo will be that callous to wipe away their timeline. Its easy to just say "All for Love" and write it out that way. But if you think about it, in-story, Odo (along w/ the Dax symbiote) are the longest living colonists. He KNEW all those people. Watch them marry. Be happy. Have kids. Have grand kids. Die. He knew them for 200 years, he's know the present DS9 crew for 5-6 years, Major Kira for what, 10-15 years? Versus 200 years and 8,000 people. Thats worse than 8,000 abortions. Its just not possible and i dont buy the "All for Love" crap. Thats just Lazy Writing. I'd rather have them fail bec of some anomaly or scientific reason. 0 out of 5 for me.
EP - March 1, 2009 - 08:37 pm (USA Central Time)
Jammer's always hammering away about consequences and difficult choices being linchpins for great episodes, and in particular, takes many episodes of VOY to task, and deservedly so, for ignoring these tenets.

Given his position and fondness for these traits, then, I don't understand why he likes this episode, much less give it 4 stars. There are no lingering or serial long-term consequences for any of the "regular" crew members after this episode ends. There are no difficult choices, since you KNOW that the crew isn't going to elect to stay on the planet. Yes, "alternate" Odo makes a questionable decision, but since he'll disappear as soon as his plan's completed, badda bing - no consequences for him.

But shucks, I'm biased because I hate Trek love plots. Even Nana Visitor and Rene Auberjonois didn't like the overt romantic themes presented in this episode (ref: DS9 Companion).
Ian Whitcombe - March 1, 2009 - 11:47 pm (USA Central Time)
Even granting all that (which I don't), the ending would still be a masterpiece compared to the end of VOY's "Endgame".
Jay - August 8, 2009 - 06:41 pm (USA Central Time)
I liked the story, but something about the characters on the planet bugged me, and the actor who played Yedrin Dax annoyed the hell out of me.

Plus, it's hard to believe that the Dominion would have ignored this planet and it's curious and sudden settlement for 200 years.
Jay - August 8, 2009 - 06:46 pm (USA Central Time)
@ Andreas...Anthony still has a point. The alternate Odo learned to adapt to the barrier, and even came on board the Defiant, and was in the same room as the other Odo in the chamber...he could have linked with "our" Odo and showed him how he does it.
Bill T - September 7, 2009 - 05:23 am (USA Central Time)
This is a fantastic episode, has far less plot holes and is far more interesting and well-written than most time-travel episodes.

- 48 -> 8000 people is no problem, so shut up
- Young Odo couldn't warn anyone, he couldn't do much more than languish in a bucket. As for Old Odo teaching him how -- I'm sure it's a skill which needs to be learned and practiced. I can hand someone a calculus book and even walk them through it, that doesn't mean they'd have any clue how to do it without enough practice
- The Dominion didn't know about the wormhole until 5 years before this, so for 195 years of its existence this was just some lonely colony out in the middle of nowhere. For the remaining 5 years, they could have either not discovered it, not cared about some small primitive colony living behind a dangerous energy barrier, or not had the ability to get past the barrier. And what would the Dominion gain by penetrating the barrier -- stealing some bushels of wheat?
- If the Female Changeling can go from waging pre-emptive war on the Alpha Quadrant, and committing genocide against Cardassian cities to surrendering and sending Odo home, then Odo can certainly change a timeline to save his true love. And think about the changelings that infiltrated Starfleet. They had to work along side humans and the Federation for months, years... think of the Bashir changeling, all the solids he was interacting with on a daily basis, getting to know them as people, their hopes and fears, and that what they really wanted was peace. And he was still very willing to fly his ship into a star to blow up their entire star system.

Changelings are !@%$%@! HARDCORE CRAZY. (9/11 parallels I will leave to your own imagination.)
Athena - September 17, 2009 - 09:01 pm (USA Central Time)
The story is okay but immediately predictable as soon as we knew where the inhabitants came from. I think those who think we are dead before we are born might see some kind of moral dilemma or conflict here. I don't see it. It is just as easy to believe this settlement survives in a parallel or mirror universe as it is to believe it will never be. Death only comes to those who are first born.
Four stars is way over the top. I would take one of those stars and give it to Ties of Blood and Water - an episode I found emotionally powerful.
I also did not care for The Visitor because it too is like a dream episode - in the end it just never happened.
Durandal_1707 - October 24, 2009 - 03:59 am (USA Central Time)
Not to mention that even if they *had* gone back in time knowing what they were supposed to do, they most certainly would have not conceived children at the exact same times as they did the first time around. There would have been people on that planet, but not the same people we saw.

Summary: If time travel causes timeline branches, the colony’s fine, just in another timeline from the Defiant crew. If time travel doesn’t branch timelines, then the colony was screwed anyway the second they told Sisko et al. who they were. In neither case should this have been a moral dilemma on the part of the Defiant crew.
C1B1 - January 1, 2010 - 02:15 pm (USA Central Time)
This episode makes me cry every single time, and it's one of very, very few TV episodes that manage to do that. The Klingons helping with the planting! O'Brien realizing that just because you want to ignore something, it doesn't go away! Odo and Kira's awkward converation at the end!
Yeah, there are some plotholes and there is some odd acting but overall, it's fantastic and sad and .... ::sigh::
Jayson - January 1, 2010 - 05:43 pm (USA Central Time)
I have to admit, I'm one of those people who likes to nitpick so I don't admonish those who do the same. However, I think what some are overlooking is the point of the story which is what happens to the characters in an unusual sittuation. Also, how said characters deal the situation. So really the story is more important than some minor details.
Nic - April 11, 2010 - 10:01 pm (USA Central Time)
I enjoyed this episode, and I praise it simply for the fact that it has made people think (judging by the number of comments on this page), but I would not rank it among the best of the series or even the season. First of all, as previously mentioned, the moral dilemma was based on an implausible situation. The time travel element doesn't change the fact that those 8,000 people don't exist yet, so no 'murder' was actually committed. On the other hand, if the crew had gone back in time, the Dominion would probably have conquered the Alpha Quadrant with death tolls in the billions. Plausibility aside, it was a nice character outing that I HOPE will have consequences on Kira and Odo's relationship in future episodes. If not, I will be saying "okay, so what was the point of all this?"
dlabtot - July 21, 2010 - 02:39 am (USA Central Time)
The one thing I have a hard time with in this episode is the idea that Dax would lie to the original crew in a way that had these profound consequences. Yes, they give it some justification and yes it is a different host, but it just doesn't ring true with me - it's still Dax, and as I've come to know the character of Dax, it has a strong moral compass and a deep understanding of friendship that wouldn't allow this kind of duplicity in the interest of self-preservation - even though that interest extends to the rest of the colonists.

However, I'm able to put that aside and still give the episode 4 stars for all the reasons articulated by Jammer. You could say that I have a highly developed ability to selectively suspend disbelief - perhaps from long practice.
Larrylongballs - September 6, 2010 - 05:03 am (USA Central Time)
If both Odos linked and one was erased what happened to mixed Odo batter?

Jay - December 25, 2010 - 11:33 pm (USA Central Time)
@ DUrandel...yep.

In particular, O'Brien, who in the first incarnation was "the last to give up hope" and waited ten years, would, presumably, this time, get started much sooner since this time staying was consentual. Also, this time they have the foreknowledge of who they "ended up" with last time, so that would shake things up too.

To put it in coarse terms, different eggs and sperm would be at play this time.
Jay - December 25, 2010 - 11:36 pm (USA Central Time)
@ Nic...yep. If they had stayed, Sisko wouldn't have been around to coerce the Prophets into holding the Jem'Hadar at bay in the Gamma Quadrant in "Sacrifice Of Angels".
Max - December 27, 2010 - 03:25 am (USA Central Time)
A very good episode. While I wouldn't put it in my top ten, it's definitely an episode that makes people want to talk about it.

The Sons of Mogh steal the show, asking Worf to kill them. Honestly, I think Worf might have actually done it under normal circumstances (just ask Kurn) instead of going on about "time" as the enemy. I suppose the shock ending over the future Odo's decision wouldn't have carried as much weight if we had seen Worf slaughter some teenagers earlier in the show. However, since by the end of the show the Defiant crew was set on going back in time anyway, the point becomes moot, but I like to imagine there's some alternate universe somewhere with a much more violent version of this story.

I love the way the Odo/Kira relationship keeps changing in season 5. In Things Past Kira learns Odo got his hands dirty in the occupation. In A Simple Investigation, Kira sees Odo is capable of intimacy with a woman, and here she learns what his emotions are possibly capable of driving him to someday in the future. She must be wondering "who is this guy?"
Elliott - December 28, 2010 - 10:57 pm (USA Central Time)
Okay, first a couple of comments on the opening scene, 1) The Bajorans' religion...again looks absolutely foolish. The prophets said we don't belong together, so that's that. So much for free will, 2) is everyone really that stupid not to notice Odo's feelings? Dax is supposed to have acquired a keen sense of intuition from her lifetimes of observing, but she's clueless. Please...

No, NO NOOOO, you may be able to excuse the "syrup scene" but it's the point at which everyone (represent by stubborn O'Brien) decides not to go through with the escape. Jammer, I don't get it, you complain about taking the easy way out so often, but what happens here? No one who still exists makes a conscious choice not to eliminate the colony, but they all get to survive and go on...what are the consequences, hm?

The episode makes full use of things extant in two VOY episodes about which you were heavily critical ("Course Oblivion" in which the only solace for the duplicate crew is "as long as we remember them..." and "Endgame" where the only character to make a sacrifice is a duplicate who never really existed).

It had a really good start and some nice characterisations, but threw it out the airlock when it decided to have the whole crew crash the ship. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
Neil - January 30, 2011 - 09:22 pm (USA Central Time)
I've watched this a few times now and have to say that it's in the top 2 or 3 of all Trek time-travel episodes. And there's a lot of them.

However, having watched it a few times, it seems obvious to me that the entire premise of there being some kind of dilemma is just absurd. In fact, both groups of people - the original defiant crew and the 8000 colonists - would only have wanted one thing, which was the survival of *their* group.

Taking the colonists first: There's just no way Odo could have developed his emotional behaviour like that without having had some serious relationships during the 200 year wait. Those would mean far more to him than Kira, an ancient memory that would really just remind him what a gruff, unlikeable, and emotionally stunted jerk he had been all those years ago.

Same goes for Dax... the symbiont would have long ago given up feeling guilty and formed much more significant relationships with the descendants than he ever had with Sisko. He knew Sisko for 15 years or so? Obviously there would be people on the planet he had known for their entire lives.

On the other hand, for the members of the original crew, the idea of sacrificing themselves so the 8000 descendants could live wouldn't even be a consideration. Think about it: If they decided to let the past repeat itself, that would cause a ton of suffering and grief to their friends and relatives back on the station and around the universe.

But the sudden disappearance of 8000 people who never had any contact with a single other person wouldn't move the grief meter at all. For them, they would all 'die' at the same time, presumably without any pain or suffering. For the rest of the universe, it wouldn't matter at all.

Why would the Defiant crew ever think there was a choice here?

So, it's pretty obvious that both groups would have no dilemma, and would pursue the course that obviously benefited them the most.

For the colonists, this would mean they should capture the defiant crew, put them all in some sort of stasis that would end after they travelled back in time, then just autopilot the ship straight into the anomaly at exactly the correct time. Dax would have had 199.9 years to plan all this, after all.

For the defiant crew, they would just try to do anything they could to stop that plan from happening.

In fact, I think I would have enjoyed watching *that* script a lot more than the one we got, with all that fake agonising over choices that didn't actually exist at all.

I still enjoyed it though, and as I said it's one of the top 3 Trek time-travel episodes. It had less obvious plot holes and creaky contradictions than the 'Enterprise' episode where they encountered their own ship 200 years after a similar anomaly did the same thing.

Jacob Sisko - February 1, 2011 - 04:46 pm (USA Central Time)
Thank you, Jammer for your detailed analysis of each episode. Usually I'm in agreement with your assessments, but I just couldn't get over one plot hole in this episode.

The gist of the moral predicament the crew finds themselves in is that by choosing to circumvent the time anomaly to live a future on DS9, they are essentially "killing" or "eradicating" 8k of their descendants. However, starfleet officers should know that circumventing the anomaly creates an alternative timeline in which our crew moves forward to DS9. The 8k is not wiped out but merely exists in a different timeline when the original crew of the Defiant remains unaware of the anomaly (ie Yedrin Dax did not tell the crew about their ancestry). The moment Yedrin Dax made the crew aware of the anomaly, he created a divergence in time; two split realities. The biggest beef I have with the episode is the moral high ground Major Kiera takes even though they haven't actually done anything wrong.
Stubb - March 25, 2011 - 08:29 am (USA Central Time)
I find this to be a moving and satisfying episode. But time travel necessarily involves paradoxes, and there are several that I feel are either not addressed or not satisfactorily resolved.
1. Either timelines diverge, or they don't. With advance warning, the Defiant plans to avoid the anomaly this time around (which makes the whole agonizing decision process is necessary). Why not draw lots and load up as many inhabitants as possible, then break orbit and head back to DS9? Would these colonists vanish from the ship upon leaving orbit? Would the Defiant have a time-conniption and explode? I argue this divergence must be possible because when the colony vanishes, the crew STILL REMEMBERS THEM. Which leads to
2. Had the Defiant never gone back in time (which it ultimately doesn't), there would be no colony to remember...nobody to hail the Defiant...and nobody to attract them to the planet in the first place. This is a classic time-travel paradox, which I am willing to overlook. BUT...I contend that if the memory of a vanished timeline can persist, then elements of that timeline (i.e., colonists) could probably be rescued as well. In either case, this possibility was never even discussed although it was the first one that came to my mind.
Stubb - March 25, 2011 - 08:41 am (USA Central Time)
(cont'd from above)
3. This is the Defiant's first visit to the planet, and thanks to temporal displacement their descendants are already there to greet them. But this necessarily creates a time-loop with variances that I feel are not effectively resolved either. The colonists act as if the Defiant arrived, left orbit, crashed, and then started the colony 200 years ago with no interference. And from their perspective, perhaps it did. But there never was a pure, non-colonist planetary encounter for the Defiant. EVERY TIME the timeline loops back and the Defiant arrives, the colonists are always there to greet them. So all the talk about crew behavior 200 years ago (colony's past, crew's future) makes little sense because the crew NEVER had a pure non-interfered encounter. This would necessarily change the loop every time it occurs. As another commenter stated above, why would O'Brien 'hold out' for ten years if he already knows his own future?
Stubb - March 25, 2011 - 12:10 pm (USA Central Time)
(cont'd one more time)
4. OK, final thought re: divergent timelines and taking the colonists with them. By the end, the Defiant crew remembers people who never existed (i.e., neuron imprint). If they had taken video of the colonists, would that video have gone blank the instant they leave orbit? When Odo kissed Kira, he may have left a trace of saliva on her lips. Did that saliva vanish when they left orbit? My extremely belabored point is that they most likely could have taken a substantial number of colonists with them. Heck, maybe they could have stored their patterns in the transporter and thereby saved them all.
Brruceling - May 18, 2011 - 12:50 am (USA Central Time)
Lots of excellent points have been made and this episode certainly deserves extended discussion. It is simultaneously a great and extremely flawed episode.

Here's what I see as a real problem, and I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned...

This should have been an episode about Sisko. He was the ONLY person in a position to actually make the ultimate decision in this episode. I was completely absorbed in thought about his situation, but I think it all really came down to this: (Sisko: I want to go home as much as you do, Chief, I'm just listening to what everyone has to say / O'Brien: So we're not actually considering this? / Sisko: No we're not.)

His obligation was to his crew, and all the argumentation about alternate timelines here proves that there is no clear answer in the Star Trek universe as to what will happen as a result of their actions. I was beside myself when a crisis of conscience on O'Brien's part suddenly became Sisko's decision to give up the lives of his entire crew. Even if his reasoning had been addressed I doubt I would have bought it, but not addressing it at all completely steals the wind out of the sails of this episode.
Some Dude - May 27, 2011 - 07:08 pm (USA Central Time)
Wow, I can't believe there are so many critical posts about this episode. Why does everyone worry so much about if what the characters tell us about the consequences would actually be true in the real world or not? Time travel defies logic anyway, so just go with the writer's interpretation! What's important here is the depiction of the moral dilemma these characters face. You're watching an episode of TV, so learn to suspend disbelief, please! Don't nitpick wonderful episodes like this one to death.

I agree 100% with Jammer, this is one of DS9's finest episodes. It hit all the right notes for me. Pure magic.
Aaron B. - September 4, 2011 - 09:09 pm (USA Central Time)
I enjoyed the episode, but I never bought the dilemma either. Halfway through, they made the only choice they could make -- save themselves and let the future take care of itself (and do their duty by returning to their jobs as Starfleet officers, incidentally). Then suddenly things went goofy. There's no way Chief is going to abandon Keiko and the kids to start a new lineage instead. After The Visitor, we're supposed to be okay with Ben never making it back to see Jake again? For every potential descendant on that planet, who knows how many descendants wouldn't happen because someone didn't get back to DS9 and reproduce there? And without Odo in the Alpha Quadrant to end the war, how many billions or more might have died in a Dominion conquest?

But the basic problem is that you can't say Theoretical Future A is more valid or deserving than Theoretical Future B just because A happens to be visible at the moment, and all these engineer/science types should know that.
Jack - October 9, 2011 - 02:58 pm (USA Central Time)
With the crew essentially already knowing the next two centuries of their future, either they would relive it exaclty, thus taking away their free will, or live a different 200 years, meaning the timeline changes. It's hard to believe that Starfleet's temporal monitoring departments (either the present day one we saw in "Trials And Tribble-ations" or the future one we saw in Voyager's "Future's End" and "Relativity", would tolerate this entire situation, to say nothing of the Q.
Krysek - October 31, 2011 - 02:34 pm (USA Central Time)
Seems fairly typical of finding a paradise which has a flaw but spends a long time convincing you it's people are happy and everything only to destroy it---in this case----in a very convenient way. It goes along with ds9s bleakness without consequences. They keep saying, those people were really alive but who really believes it? It's just another dream sequence, overused in other shows as well but here hanging on us believing they killed 8000 people. If you don't then the dream is a bit pointless.
Captain Tripps - November 2, 2011 - 11:31 pm (USA Central Time)
Aaron - I'd say the future in front of you is far more pressing than one you can't see or predict. Physicist or not. They don't actually have any answers with regard to the effects of time travel anyway, it's not a very well understood topic even in the 24th century. There's a lot of theory, but how effective is that when you're staring your own descendants in the face?

This episode is built on THAT emotion, not the paradoxes or alternate possibilities. Which is kind of why I like it, and why it's better than most others in Trek.
Allison - November 23, 2011 - 12:07 am (USA Central Time)
I love this episode for all the reasons that Jammer gives: it's about honest choices, there's no cheaty ending, there's a lot of character shown, etc. Even with the glaring problem to me, it's an easy four stars.

The problem is that there was a solution that maximizes even more lives: with the replicators that exist both on the Defiant and the colony, some kind of warp-capable vessel must have been possible to construct. The obvious solution is to send Kira in that new ship through the barrier back to DS9 and get the treatment she needed from one of the other physicians on the station. Then, let the Defiant crew go back in time and start the colony... the timeline is mostly preserved, save for one Bajoran grave in an idyllic field of grass.

Of course, Future-Odo would probably object to that plan if only because he spent two centuries mourning his lost love, and rewriting history would allow he and Kira to be together the way he thought they'd always belonged. (Though he could have gone with her, too. Changelings obviously live a hell of a long time.)
Kojac395 - December 30, 2011 - 06:03 am (USA Central Time)
My big issue with this episode: how come nobody from the Defiant mentioned that they had to get back to stop a war? I mean, I would think that would be the first thing that pops into their heads. "Oh shit, the wormhole will be mostly unguarded without the most powerful warship in the Federation on patrol."
Jay - January 26, 2012 - 08:06 am (USA Central Time)
Kojac is right...that they would be so concerned over 8000 lives, that as mentioned above, wouldn't even be the same 8000 the next time because of the foreknowledge the crew would have this time...when the lives of billions hung in the balance, is some twisted morality...
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