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Robert
Thu, Sep 21, 2017, 2:38pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S2: Threshold

Also the warp scale has changed from TOS->TNG.

According to Star Trek: Starship Spotter, the redesignation of warp 10 as infinite speed occurred in 2312. The warp factor specifications prior to 2312 were rated by Starfleet using the Original Cochrane Unit warp scale, abbreviated as the OCU. Warp factors after 2312 use the Modified Cochrane Unit warp scale, abbreviated as the MCU.

Basically it used to go up closer to linearly and then they made warp 10 infinite speed and now it goes up exponentially as you approach warp 10.
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Robert
Tue, Sep 19, 2017, 11:29am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S1: Old Wounds

@OmicronThetaDeltaPhi - I haven't watched it yet, no. I like the idea of what they are trying to do... but Seth MacFarlane's humor meets TNG doesn't sound any more delicious to me personally than chocolate and olives. That said, I'm not totally opposed, just watching the ratings/reviews and thinking on it. I do get that there are things it's doing well though.
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Robert
Mon, Sep 18, 2017, 3:16pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S1: Old Wounds

I don't mean successor in the sense of worthiness, I more mean that many of us have waited a really, really long time for something that scratches that itch. I bailed on ENT in S2, so for me the last time I was regularly watching Star Trek was like 2003? After having done so for almost 15 years straight?

So when I say successor I more mean for the audience.

"But you gotta admit, it hits many of the right notes that Discovery doesn't. And it's not a bad show. If people stopped expecting the Orville to be as deep or meaningful or complex as old-school Star Trek, they would enjoy it a lot more."

Ya, this! This is what I mean. So far the Orville sense of humor is putting me off of it, but it's hitting a lot of the right notes that DSC doesn't sound like it will. That's exactly what I'm thinking.

Some people will watch Orville because they want the "light hearted exploration". Some people will watch DSC (though I've personally been calling it STD, so maybe I should stop finding Orville's humor so off putting...) because they are desperate for new Trek and may or may not find what they are looking for.

"Within a few years, you'll get your "worthy Star Trek successor" and it will be breath-takingly wonderful. Either CBS straightens-up in the face of the competition and starts producing offical Trek worthy of the name, or some new excellent show will fill the same niche."

Sign me up. I don't care if it's a modern TNG or a modern DS9... I'll take it.
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Robert
Mon, Sep 18, 2017, 12:25pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S1: Old Wounds

@Cosmic -

"Great! Which is one of the big reasons why I take issue with the pre-judgments that I've seen regarding Discovery. Some fans (not anyone I've necessarily seen around here) are deciding to write off the show just because the Klingons look different. That kind of attitude baffles me. Give the show a chance and if it works, it works."

What does works mean? For me... in order for this show to work it will have to heavily respect existing canon. Is it possible to do that AND redesign the Klingons. Sure. Is a good sign? No it is not.

And ya, it's sort of OT here but.... I feel like in a lot of ways for many of us it's going to be ORV or DSC (or possibly neither). They are vying for the position of what we want in a Star Trek successor. I'm becoming increasingly sure that neither of them is going to be what I personally would want out of a Star Trek successor, but we'll see. I'll continue to monitor the situation.

But regardless I expect a lot of compare/contrast over the next year. And I don't know it that's OT.
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Robert
Fri, Sep 15, 2017, 10:32am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: General Discussion

" If DIS is like that I'm dropping it out of the gate. It also doesn't help that the people running it are tied to Abrams who I don't think much of as a creative force. "

Actually it's worse than that. Abrams has a lot of creative genius in his TV shows (look at Fringe/Alias/Felicity/Lost)... but he inevitably leaves said critically acclaimed brilliant shows after he gets bored of them and leaves them in the hands of Orci/Kurtzman/Lindelof where they plummet in quality.

And this time we don't even get the benefit on Abrams giving us a creative boost head start....
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Robert
Thu, Sep 14, 2017, 2:57pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S1: Old Wounds

When DS9 was on many people were negatively comparing it to TOS, TNG and VOY. Now? I almost think it's a universal consensus that DS9 was awesome and has aged the best. Some people might enjoy other ones of course (personal taste and all that), but it's a small minority that actually thinks DS9 was BAD. Whereas VOY and ENT are very divisive.
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Robert
Wed, Sep 13, 2017, 9:12am (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S1: Old Wounds

@N - I agree with a lot of what you say, but I think a lot of it misses the mark. First ENT. I don't know that S4 is worse that S3. It's really, really different. But what people liked about it was that it did what the show should have been doing all along. Found the Federation. With Star Wars a prequel needed to be Anakin's story. With Star Trek I think the prequel needed to tell us how something critical to Star Trek's mythos happened... but they didn't want to do that. And I'll get to that in a minute.

First off, full disclosure, DS9 is my favorite show ever. The only other show that comes remotely close to having the same place in my heart is Buffy. I bought the DS9 DVDs when I was a poor college student and they were $600. I saved up for a ridiculously long time and sold some of my other stuff to Gamestop and whanot. I bought TNG when it was down to closer to $250 and I had a lot more money. So that gives you an idea of how I feel about dark shows with black leads, DS9, etc. And though I am a white male my second favorite show is Buffy. So a black lady in the lead spot on a dark show is totally fine for me.

So I'm going to tell you why I soured on the idea of Discovery. First we'll go with what I consider it's biggest problem. It's a prequel. Prequels suck unless they are written by somebody who wants to fill in the blanks in a cool way. Writers don't seem to like that. The first sin of Enterprise was starting with a temporal cold war. Time travel is involved! The future can still be in peril even though we're in the past!!! Time can change! Maybe the Federation will never be formed! Well screw that noise. Really? The best you can do to raise the stakes is that Picard/Sisko might get erased? Well I guess that's a pretty good idea since you don't plan to make us care about any of THESE characters? Right?? And then their second sin was wanting to make TNG episodes even though it went against their premise. Ferengi! Borg! Really guys?? You know that TNG made first contact with those races.... DS9 and VOY tried to make TNG episodes too. They sucked. You guys aren't going to do any better. At least DS9 figured it out fast.....

So I'm going to tell you right off the bat that I'm going to be shocked if Discovery doesn't rebel against their premise and retcon crap so they can have popular TNG things that shouldn't be there. So ya... I think maybe people enjoyed ENT S4 because Coto was actually enjoying writing a prequel. And he was the first one.

So for starters I hate the idea that it's a prequel.

Next up. We're off network now! We can be racy!!! Ooooh!!! I can't wait to see what a decontamination scene off network looks like!! You know those are the only reason we're still in the past right? Because in the future they don't have the decontamination rooms..... I started watching Star Trek TNG with my Dad in 3rd grade. So pretty much screw this. Is there some good reason Discovery can't be a family show? I know some of DS9 was a bit dark for kids but do we need to get racier than that? I don't. How boringly edgy....

And then there's CBS All Access. Which they can pretty much shove up their asses. If Discovery gets fantastic amazeball reviews and Jammer 4 stars half of it I'll buy the damned blu rays after the season is over. But All Access? Nope. Not happening.

And that's before I get into the nerdy nitpicking like WTF do the Klingons look like that???!!

As for Orville? I decided not to watch that when the review mentioned exploding blue ejaculate in the first scene. Discovery is trying too hard to be mature and Orville apparently isn't trying hard enough. Sigh. At least I have my DS9 DVDs.
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Robert
Tue, Sep 12, 2017, 10:22am (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S1: Broken Bow

And actually, there was a lot of talk of adding a chief engineer in S1 and they were auditioning women. In fact, the first chief engineer we ever saw in episode 3 was a woman. The cast shook out a little differently than we expected, but had everyone fallen in love with her we could have ended up with a woman engineer, a woman doctor and a woman security chief.
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Robert
Fri, Sep 1, 2017, 10:13am (UTC -5)
Re: BSG S2: Pegasus

@ Peter

100% agree. The kind of rape we're hearing talked more about NOW is blurred lines rape. "She said no a couple of times but then she kept kissing me and didn't stop me and she was drunk". That stuff isn't about power, that stuff is about people not grasping consent. It'd be nice if everyone understood that once you had a verbal "no" you need a verbal "reversal" of that no (for example). But those kinds of situations aren't the same as forcible rape. Date rape CAN be forced, but in the cases of some of the stuff we hear about in college it doesn't have to be.
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Robert
Fri, Sep 1, 2017, 9:51am (UTC -5)
Re: BSG S2: Pegasus

@Jason

I dunno... comparing a prostitute to marijuana or methadone isn't really fair. A prostitute is heroin. She's the real deal. To imply that the prostitute isn't the real deal is to imply they are getting something more from the rape encounter. But it's not the chemical addiction to sex, nor is the chemical release from sex.

Absent knocking down a person's morality and empathy (I don't care much about law, since I am a relatively upstanding citizen who has no problem breaking laws I find inconsequential if I don't think I'll get caught) which would leave you literally finding raping a human being to be the same as raping a holodeck character.... if a person has any morality/empathy they are getting more out of rape than sex.

To divorce it from power/violence is almost worse than divorcing it from sexual desire. I have never desired a human being sexually so much that it would change the fact that hurting them would be physically uncomfortable to me. In order to get over that hurdle I think I'd have to enjoy hurting the person. Which I suppose could be accomplished in wartime via demonizing the people you're fighting. I have obviously come around to agree with you that it's more about sex than I originally gave it credit for though.
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Robert
Fri, Sep 1, 2017, 8:36am (UTC -5)
Re: BSG S2: Pegasus

@ Tara

"the vast majority of rapes have power as either an augmenting thrill to the primary drive for sex, or power as the primary motivator"

Ya, the augmenting thrill thing is basically what I was getting at in my last post. I also agree with you that likely they aren't ALL about power/violence. But I think most in the bounds of modern society are occurring because the person is getting off on hurting their victim. As I said in my first post, if you're not enjoying inflicting the pain you've still got your hand.
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Robert
Fri, Sep 1, 2017, 8:23am (UTC -5)
Re: BSG S2: Pegasus

I guess what I was trying to get at is that choosing rape over the alternatives can't JUST be about sexual pleasure. It has to be about violence/power/collapse of social norms/etc. as well.
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Robert
Fri, Sep 1, 2017, 8:21am (UTC -5)
Re: BSG S2: Pegasus

I think I agree with all of you a little bit?

Tara is right in that the willingness to rape is about power and or violence. Your morals have to be weak enough that you think taking what you want from somebody else is acceptable (this goes along with Jason's heroin comment, though obviously sex doesn't contain the same kind of need as a withdrawing heroin addict) AND you have to lack empathy to the point where you think hurting someone else is a neutral or (worse) pleasurable act.

So the initial urge may not be related to power/violence, but the willingness to commit such an act... to choose it over the alternatives is likely saying you're enjoying taking what you want from another person and/or hurting them as well as the sexual release. Because you don't need to get it that way.
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Robert
Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 1:26pm (UTC -5)
Re: BSG S2: Pegasus

"Well because it would be wrong (morality), you'd feel bad if she cried and was in pain (empathy) and you'd be afraid of being sent to jail (law)."

Maybe you're right, maybe b (empathy) is the reason I don't feel it's sexy or related to sex, or anything like that. I mean.... it's obviously related to sex, but I feel about it that it's more along the lines of assault than sex.

I find the idea that maybe it would just be sex if I didn't have empathy to be somewhat disturbing. Because it's fairly easy to get people to behave immorally or lawlessly, but it's not as easy to strip away empathy.
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Robert
Thu, Aug 31, 2017, 9:56am (UTC -5)
Re: BSG S2: Pegasus

I think I'm with Tara when it comes to rape with regards to sex/power/assault/etc.

For me, personally, as a male... sex ceases to be sex when it's not consensual. If I wanted sexual relief and could not find someone to take care of that for me... I can take care of that myself. There's nothing sexual or sexy about non-consensual sex. I've never felt an urge to "take care of that" in a non-consensual way.

I CERTAINLY understand the urge to hurt someone. I feel like I'd have to remind myself constantly not to punch a Nazi in the teeth for instance (to use the current US politics discussion of... "is it wrong to punch a Nazi"). Evil others are easy to dehumanize, and the urge to "hurt them" for the harms they cause to you and your society, both real and imagined can be strong. When you are fighting an enemy as evil as Nazis... I can imagine the urge to hurt them, in any way possible, to be great. Rape is violent, not sexy. It's not any different (except in that it's worse) than slashing someone with your knife. You're trying to hurt them, leave a scar (emotional or physical). It's violent.

"What historic facts say about the men around you, and what they (or any of us) are capable of (or even eager for) when social restraints are released, is a bit chilling."

Chilling, but not surprising. We send people overseas to terminate the life of evil others in increasingly horrific and violent ways and then are shocked when their brains have, as a coping mechanism, allowed them to think of these people as not deserving of empathy. As Jason said....

" If morality, law and empathy are the three pillars separating the good men from the rapists (and indeed, most human beings from other atrocities) then as you knock those pillars down, one by one, it is to be expected that a greater and greater number of people are going to act out in more and more antisocial even egregious ways."

We have to assume that war knocks the empathy pillar out since it's difficult to send people overseas to murder those that we are not demonizing. And most of the law pillar as well... if nobody is getting in trouble for this sort of thing. So that leaves morality. Well hell, my morality says killing is bad, if we've gotten to the point where I am overriding THAT PART of my ethics subroutine.... WTF else is left?

I don't think acknowledging that soliders can end up in a very bad and violent place takes us to "everybody is secretly a rapist". Well, everyone can pick up a gun and start killing people too. But they don't.
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Robert
Wed, Aug 30, 2017, 8:58am (UTC -5)
Re: BSG S2: Pegasus

I actually wonder if, in those situations, people who are ordinarily so good that they view rape as one of the most evil acts can actually be convinced that the "other" they are fighting is so evil that they deserve to have one of the most evil acts committed against them.

Never actually seen BSG, so I can't speak to the episode, but based on the level of atrocities that occur during certain wars one must assume that more of society is evil than I'd like to ponder or certain conflicts allow people to turn off their ethics subroutines.

I don't know that I have an answer at all, just reading your discussion and had a passing thought I decided to share.
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Robert
Fri, Aug 25, 2017, 1:21pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: For the Uniform

@Chrome - I was just joking about Yanks' secret admirer that keeps mucking up the comments for this episode.
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Robert
Fri, Aug 25, 2017, 1:00pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: For the Uniform

@Chrome - Like spamming an entire website to get to somebody who pissed you off? :P
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Robert
Tue, Aug 22, 2017, 12:59pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: The First Duty

@Yanks

Picard was totally looking out for Wes, I just think the threat was excessive and that the choice should have come from within.

@ Chrome - "On the other hand, Wesley may not have confessed if Picard hadn't made that threat. He was pretty far deep into the lie at that point anyway."

That depends on how the writers wrote his conscience :P

It's a minor point, but I would have preferred that Picard guide him to what was right, not strongarm him. In the end his 2 choices were tell the truth or call Jean Luc Picard a liar to his face. I'd have preferred that his choices were tell the truth or lose Picard's respect is all.

Minor complaint.
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Robert
Tue, Aug 22, 2017, 9:17am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: The First Duty

I liked Picard's speech and Wesley confessing. What I didn't like was Picard threatening to tell if Wesley didn't. I always felt that Picard should have given Wesley the option to save face and lose Picard's respect or to tell. It felt like Picard took the agency out of Wesley's hand.
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Robert
Tue, Aug 22, 2017, 9:14am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S7: Author, Author

FWIW I always viewed holonovels as choose your own adventure books. I think that yes, if you wandered off and completely ignored the plot it would somehow railroad you back. But if you look at Tuvok's training program that Seska co-opted, everyone thought it was a holonovel. And you could play it out different ways.
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Robert
Thu, Aug 17, 2017, 2:11pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S4: Paradise Lost

My 2 cents.

First, I took it to mean they a) are working on countermeasures (they study Odo a lot) and b) that they MIGHT be able to prevent further attacks, but they shouldn't.

Sisko is like the guy that decides we should all take our shoes off in the airport and his crotchety old Dad disagrees. Then when his Dad gets the piss scared out of him and complies readily with having a little less freedom Sisko realizes how disturbingly easy it is to get people to trade freedom for security. That one scene, for me, where Sisko feels unsettled by his father's compliance tells me what the episode is actually about.

"The episode never addresses how Starfleet will try to prevent that from happening again."

They will work on it, continue to study the results from testing Odo and continue to live their lives in a way that doesn't let the terrorists win. I thought all this was obvious and didn't need to be spelled out.

One could argue if it is satisfying or not, but I believe it is the intent.
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Robert
Wed, Aug 16, 2017, 8:33am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: The Masterpiece Society

"So I think you're stuck with getting both or neither, which why I'm left wondering what the heck the Federation does to prevent eugenics in the breeding sense. It's not as bad as genetic engineering...but it still feels pretty bad to me. "

We are in agreement. The point of my story was that the only way to actually get one and not the other is to hide information from the patient. They let people take the test I mentioned under specific circumstances, but not others. Our case wasn't covered (for a variety of reasons not worth going into).

Other people think that people should be allowed to take the test, but only to identify birth defects. The doctor shouldn't tell you the sex. I feel very uncomfortable with the idea that doctors can withhold results of your own blood tests from you, but there we have it.

But you are 100% right. In old D&D like video games where stats were randomized if you wanted to have different stats you could use an editor or re-roll. Re-rolling likely didn't get you the stats you were looking for EXACTLY, but if you were willing to re-roll enough times you could certainly get closer. Selective abortion, could, in theory be used to re-roll your baby if you were heartless enough.
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Robert
Wed, Aug 16, 2017, 8:20am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: The Loss

@Mikey - Do you enjoy the Picard, Riker, Geordi, Data or Worf episodes? I mean... you probably don't right? Do you find Worf attractive?

Sorry all, that was borderline trolling, but I couldn't resist.
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Robert
Mon, Aug 14, 2017, 1:41pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: The Masterpiece Society

@ Peter G.

"Certainly in terms of law you couldn't distinguish between selective abortion and elective abortion, and since eugenics is illegal in the Federation it makes me wonder how they would govern such things."

I suspect much like they do now. My wife is a carrier for something that can cause severe birth defects, but usually does not affect girls (being X linked... girls with a defective X are usually fine if they have a normal X).

We wanted to take a maternal blood test to check the baby's sex (science is cool) and then decide if we were going to go the additional step of having an invasive amnio. Surprise! Anti-legal abortion advocates pushed legislation that says we cannot have the blood test because they don't want people have sex selective abortions (this was revoked in mid-2014... too late for me, but you can have it done now). I have 2 little girls and did no further tests (we decided not to have the amnio) but it was a much tougher choice than it needed to be.

We are going to have to, as a society, decide if we want to continue to prevent people from accessing information about their own bodies because of what they might do with it. There are fetal blood cells present in the mother's body. This is a fact. In how many years will I be able to use them to see if my baby has blonde hair.
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