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Elnis
Tue, Sep 3, 2013, 8:36am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S7: What You Leave Behind

Just watched this episode, finishing my first viewing of DS9.

I've loved watching this series, mostly because of the strong characterization, so parts of What You Leave Behind" had a surprisingly strong emotional impact on me. Particularly Kira and Odo saying godbye as Odo merges with The Link ... I'm a gorwn man, but dear lord, I was weaping like a little baby!

Although I was opposed to the idea of Kira and Odo being a couple when they first started being together, I was turned around completely by the writing and the performances. It's a very romantic lovestory, but based on a mature view of love and relationsships that we seldomly see in Hollywood. Kira and Odo ended up being the very best part of DS9 for me - and it's probably my favorite relationship in all of Trek.

Other than that, I enjoyed this final episode's very cool space battle (I didn't notice the use of old footage). I also enjoyed that we got to "say goodbye" to the characters, but I didn't particularly enjoy the way most of it played out. There was a lot of ground to cover, and much of it seemed rushed and messy to me.

Take the way they wrapped up Sisko's story, for example. In the course of just a few minutes we see Sisko "die", then wake up among the "Prophets" (apparatly one of them now?), then saying goodbye to his wife. 1-2-3 cut. Um ... so ... is this what all the build-up about Sisko as the emissary led to? That's it? Really?! Emotinally unfulfilling! To me, Sisko as THE Emissary quite clearly seemed like the main arc of the series, right from the first episode - and it ends with such a fizzle. I mean ... no goodbye to Jake? Seriously?! Come on!

Another example is O'brien and Bahir. I'm afraid O'brien and Bashir's friendship never really rang true to me - the writers seemed to TELL us how good friends they were rather than SHOWING it to us. "See how we have fun together? That's because we are such good friends, isn't that right? And being friends means that we should point it out to eachother and the viewers repeatedly, saying it out loud". Yeah, alright, good for you. A very childish take on a friendship between two grown men. One of the things in this episode that didn't really provoce an emotional response from me, I'm afraid.

All in all a mixed episode with some clear, emotional highlights. An "okay" ending to a very, very good series!
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Elnis
Wed, Aug 28, 2013, 5:26pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S6: The Reckoning

When Kira, possessed by a "prophet", walks over to Sisko on the promenade, there was a moment where I expected her to say:

"Choose the form of the destroyer!"

DS9 meets Ghostbusters - I liked it!
Yes, Star Trek is mainly about moral issues, but once in a while I really long for some cool sci-fi action to give me a break from all the endless talking.
Both Kira and jake looked awesome in their possessed state - not just the eerie contacts lenses and the neat fireworks, but their whole attitude. I was excited!

My only regret is that the build-up for this sweet fight scene didn't really succeed in getting the epic nature of the stand-off across ... not in terms of tension and atmosphere. Could've been done better. We should've learned earlier what this whole prophecy was actually about, and the two entities should've been build up to seem more menacing.

Much of the rest of the story is a bit of a mess, going on in different directions without conclusing much about anything.
And Avery Brooks whimping on the promenade as he watches his possessed son losing a fight between Titans ... man, that was horrible! What a terrible performance by Brooks!

But other than that, I liked it. Once in a while it's nice to get some straight-up good vs. evil action - saves us from suffocating in all the concoluted little plot points floating around the quagmire we call "the grey area". I like the grey area ... but sometimes it just gets too tangled up in it's own juices.

hen we need the Ghostbusters to step in and blow stuff up!

Go Egon Spengler!
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Elnis
Wed, Aug 28, 2013, 1:40pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S6: One Little Ship

Woohooo!

Action-adventure comedy - I love it!

I don't think the premise of a shrunken ship and crew is any more far-fetched than much of the other stuff we usually just igbnore to enjoy our 45 minutes of Trek - it certainly didn't bother me!

This episode gave me the same "vibe" that I got from watching old adventure movies from the 60'ies or 70'ies. A thrill and a half, just a good romp.

I do feel, however, that we didn't see the "bigguns" through the windows of the runabout enough. We got a shot of Giant Worf at the very end, and that was more or less it - kind of disappointing.

The only thing that annoyed me as I watched the episode was that the ship was clearly large enough for a normal person to definately notice - yet, it flew around a room full of Jem'Hadar and no one saw it. What where they, drunk?

But nevermind - a fun adventure starring our beloved heroes! This is what sci-fi can ALSO do very well if only we let it.
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Elnis
Tue, Aug 27, 2013, 5:33pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S6: Wrongs Darker Than Death or Night

Something about Kira's age then (as a small child) and now (as an adult) didn't seem quite right in this episode, so I checked Memory Alpha, and this is what I found out:

Gul Dukat was the last Cardassian prefect of Bajor.
Has was prefect in the period 2346 - 2369 (human calendar years).
In the year 2360 the command of Terok Nor (DS9) was assigned to him as part of his duties as prefect.

Terok Nor (DS)) was build in the year 2346 (the same year Dukat was made prefect of Bajor).

This episode, "Wrongs Darker ..." takes place in the year 2375.

Since the time Major Kira visits in "Wrongs Darker ..." has to be after Terok Nor is build, the very earliest year this can be is 2346. Note that at no points it's said that Dukat is the commander of the station at that point. Sure, the drunken Cardassian with Major kira on his lap says he's seen Dukat seduce girls by posing as the "savior" before, but he doesn't specifically mention WHERE or WHEN he's seen that - it might've been some place else entirely, not on Terok Nor.


Okay, so if Major Kira from 2375 travels as far back in time as 2346 and meet herself, she would meet a version of herself that was 31 years younger. The Nerys she meets in the past seems to be around 4 years old, which would make our present Nerys 35 years old ... and that's the oldest this episode would allow major Kira to be.

Hmm .. yeah, okay, I can buy that. Nana Visitor (playing Major Kira) was around 39/40 years old at the time this episode was shot. Yeah, works for me.

It's noteworthy that there are some inconsistencies throughout the run of DS9 as to when Dukat was what and where. Here's one example:
In the epsiode "Waltz", just a few episodes before "Wrongs ...", Dukat mentions that he became prefect of Bajor 40 years into the occupation. It's been mentioned before that the occupation lasted 50 years, and that means that Dukat was prefect for 10 years, not 24 years. The 10 years coincide just fine with the period of time Terok Nor was under his command, though, so this particular discrepancy could just be considered a slip of the tongue by Dukat (rather than the writers getting the continuity mixed up, as they otherwise did fairly often, according to Memory Alpha).
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Elnis
Tue, Aug 27, 2013, 11:24am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S6: Far Beyond the Stars

I guess the many discussions on this forum show that this episode of DS9 was, if nothing else, thought provoking.

In my eyes it’s an episode with many layers and messages, some more subtle than others – but all of them very well orchestrated!

As many others I was a bit disappointed that the message about racism was handled so ”in your face”. Usually, when Trek works best, I find it to be when the message is conveyed through a (more or less) subtle allegory. A lesson is often times best learned not when preached directly, but when it’s shown through mirrored example.

But then I realized … the main message in this episode is NOT about racism!
Sure, racism is the main vehicle used to power the plot and drive the point home – but, while one of the many messages of this episode, it’s NOT the main point!

To me, the main point is censorship and artistic control. Once I had that thought, all the pieces of the episode seemed to fall perfectly into place.

And what on Earth made me get that impression? Okay, bear with me here …

There are two end-of-episode speeches, one made by Benny as he has a breakdown, the other made by Sisko as he looks out the window of his office.

The point of Benny’s speech is, essentially: you cannot kill and idea! You can try to oppress it, but you can’t kill it. In context with the plot of the episode, this seems to mean that you can’t suppress the idea of freedom and of equal rights – but in the scene, Benny breaks down because he is being denied voicing his opinion, making his point. After all he’s been through, in the very end, he fails because the publisher Mr. Stone (the studio Paramount) didn’t think that his controversial message would prove popular by the readers (lower ratings). Douglas (the producers of DS9) is actually sympathetic to Benny’s (the writing crew’s) situation – but he HAS to defend the publisher’s (studio’s) decision and take the pragmatic standpoint.
In my eyes, the obvious theme driving the plot – racism – could just as well have been any other theme that made for a controversial topic in the setting the story provides. It could’ve been prisoners of war never receiving a trial (set in Guantanamo today), women being oppressed (Middle East today) or abortion (USA today) instead of racism in 1950’ies USA. The MAIN point, as voiced in Benny’s speech, would still have been the same: you can stop an opinion from being voiced, but can’t kill an idea.

Then there’s Sisko’s speech: what is real, the dream or the dreamer? Are both equally real?
This speech seems pretty out of place in relation to the main plot – if the main point of the plot was racism. How would this relate to racism?
The key to understanding what this last speech is really about, I believe, is found in the preacher that Benny encounters in the street. The preacher serves as an angel on Benny’s shoulder, telling him to do the right thing and sharing it’s wisdom in telling Benny to be cautious. It also tells him: “you are both the dream and the dreamer”.
So, according to the preacher, the dream and the dreamer is the same thing and equally important. And what is Benny? A dreamer, a writer. In my interpretation, Benny represents the writers of DS9 … and when Benny sees Sisko in the window and Sisko sees Benny in the window, they are basically the same. The fact that these two characters are “dreaming” about eachother means that the dreamer (writer) and the dream (the story) are part of eachother, dependant on eachother.
In the start if the episode, when Sisko complains about being beaten down again and again and is thinking of quitting, Sisko’s dad says: “well, you’re not irreplaceable”.
At the end, though, Sisko, seeing Benny as a reflection, comes to realize that this is EXACTLY what he is: irreplaceable.
In other words: the writers on the show aren’t just mindless machines that you can put coins into and then get to write a nice, neat package of a story that’ll please everyone. They are people with a voice, and their contribution to Trek is personal and important to them – they can’t just be replaced whenever the studio finds the stories to be to controversial to please everyone in the broad audience.

I get the distinct feeling that the writers of this episode are making a very personal statement to the studio – they are saying that it’s wrong for the studio to tell the writers what they can and can’t write, and it’s wrong for them to dictate what should and shouldn’t be included in the show. Furthermore, the writers are telling the studio that while the writers depend on the studio as employers, the studio’s product depends heavily on the work of the writers – they aren’t just dispensable drones.

Remember how the studio forced Worf on the show? Remember the rumble about the same sex kiss between Terry Farrell and Susanna Thompson in “Rejoined” – would you like to bet that this was cause for discussion between the studio and the writers?
I think it would be naïve to think that this kind of thing doesn’t happen all the time. There’s no doubt in my mind that very good ideas – and even fully written scripts – are frequently shot down because it “wouldn’t please the demographic and would cause lower ratings” – it just is what IS, you know?

I’m convinced “Far Beyond the Stars” was written to voice the frustration of the writers that they get censored and forced to make changes all the time, oppressing ideas that need to be brought up – and that the writers aren’t happy with the threats of being fired and replaced if they insist that their script is filmed in the original version.
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Elnis
Tue, Aug 27, 2013, 7:13am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S6: The Magnificent Ferengi

Great fun!

This episode is certainly one of the most entertaining comedy episodes of DS9 - although it IS over the top. But hey, who cares, we get a laugh a minute, and I certainly was smiling :)

It's funny - there's a cluster here of comedy episodes that are all wel above average as far as story, laughs and thrills are concerned. I'm talking about "You Are Cordially Invited", "The Magnificent Ferengi" and "Who Mourns for Morn?" - these three episodes aren't far apart, and they are probalby the three funniest episodes in DS9 ... in my eyes, that us.

It seems the creators get a better and better handle on the "fun joyride" episodes as the series progresses - particularly the ones centered around the Ferengi.
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Elnis
Tue, Aug 27, 2013, 7:00am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S6: Who Mourns for Morn?

I really, really enjoyed this episode!

It's a hoot, a fun joyride with double-crossing scoudrels that had me both very amused and guessing right thorugh to the very end.

No, I didn't find it predictable. According to Jammer's review, that probably paints me as a simpleton - but then again, it might not.

I didn't take anything for granted in this episode. Why not? Because of Morn. Here's a recurring character that we actually hardly now anything about - and the writers used that to full effect. He could easily have been married to a femme fatale, been a crown prince, been a bankrobber. I was entertained by the twists and turns, because I could imagine any, several or none of the lies his former associates told could just have easily been true.

Morn has been a source for much enjoyment for me. The concept of this character is hillarious - he's sort of like the charcter we hear about, but don't ever see, just like Maris in "Frasier" and the neighbour in "Everybody Loves Raymond". Sure, we do SEE Morn, but apparantly we don't ever see him being himself - since we're told that he talks a lot and so on. That always makes me chuckle.

In addition, whenever we see him onscreen, his mere presence is so much fun! The make-up department did great here, making him look like a cute, grey potato, that noone could ever hate. The slightly scraed, uncomfortable expression in his eyes whenever someone wants something from him is fantastic - I just want to reach through the screen and hug this guy!
My favortie Morn moment is in "Doctor Bashir, I Presume" where he's included in the line-up of people interviewed about Bashir - he suddenly appears on the screen, staring into the camera with a blank expression, just as the interviewing doctor says something like "you're just not being any help here". Hahaaaa! Fantastic!

The creators of the show definately succeeded in making Morn a likeable character - a mascot, as Jammer and Quark mentioned - without him ever taking much fokus at all.

And now he's "dead", with everyone in the bar mourning him (great scene!). He leaves everything to Quark ... but who was he really?

This plot was ingenious, well set up and well executed. 3.5 stars from me!

And always remeber: "keep the seet warm for Morn!"
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Elnis
Tue, Aug 27, 2013, 6:28am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S6: Change of Heart

.. and i completely agree with you, Tiarse, it's great that people are still commenting and discussing this series over a decade after it ended.

Just goes to show that Star Trek is something special ;)
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Elnis
Tue, Aug 27, 2013, 6:25am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S6: Change of Heart

Finally we get an episode, that gives an argument for Jadzia and Worf having a relationship!

Up until now, I just didn't buy it - maybe because Worf has always annoyed the heck out of me. But here, he seems to have more nuances than just "I had fun once - I hated it!" showing in his face and voice. And, given more substance to the character by the writers, Michael Dorn delivers very well!

Terry Farrell's acting is terrific as well! She sells the "humour as a shield" part of Jadzia extremely well. I particularly loved the scenes, where she knew she was pretty much dieing, and tried being her own perky self through the pain and tears. Not all actors can pull off acting several emotions at once like she does here!

I was surprised that Worf didn't end up saving both the informant and Jadzia - and that he chose Jadzia over his duty. I liked it! Good drama, something the Worf character needed - in my eyes, we've never really seen him handled properly, and that includes all the Alexander episodes and the Worf's family honor episodes of the past - they never made Worf work as a 3-dimensional character for me.

So this episode really made some important parts of the Trek universe finally work for me: Worf and the Jazia/Worf relationship.

Good episode!

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Elnis
Mon, Aug 26, 2013, 12:23am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S6: You Are Cordially Invited

To me, this was the funniest episode of DS9 so far.

While the plot left me with a shrug, many of the lines are absolutely brilliant comedy!

My favorite part was probably Bashir and O'Brien, hanging over a fiery pit, talking about how they're gonna kill Worf. Tacky, sure, but well written and well performed!

Oh, and I wish I'd been invited to Jadzia's party .. man, that looked like fun!
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Elnis
Sat, Aug 24, 2013, 2:56pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: Call to Arms

This episode made me think: "finally!"

efore I started watching DS9 I had heard a lot about how this show was different, how the consequences of the actions (or inatctions) of the characters could be seen and felt in the following episodes throughout the series.

I immediately fell in love with DS9 and it's wonderful scripts, characters and actors - but I was disappointed to find that the famous consequences where few and far apart - the status quo was maintained almost as steadily as on TNG etc. It seemed that the writers were jumping up and down on the dreaded reset button almost as much on this show as on any other Trek show.

But then came this episode ...

The sight of the joined Federation/Klingon fleet at the very end made my jaw drop ... I'm almost certain I peed my pants a little. Wow!

If you'll excuse me, I'll have to go see the beginning of the next season. Darn it ... I've become a DS9 junkie!
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Elnis
Sat, Aug 24, 2013, 8:13am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: Children of Time

Lots of interesting points made here by you guys.

This episode got my brain working ovettime as well, about a lot of issues.

There's one thought I can't let go of, though:
When "alternate" Odo linked with "our" Odo (who was in a liquid state at the time), isn't it possible/likely that "our" Odo got access to "alternate" Odo's memories of his 200 years on the planet? If this is the case, then Odo was given a whole lifetime of memories that would probably seem as real to him as his own memories ... and it would make this story Odo's very own "Inner Light" (where Picard gets a lifetime of "fake" memories within a few minutes).

Since we don't know exactly how The Link between changelings works, we dont' know how much information - i.e. how many memories - "our" Odo got from "alternate" Odo ... but the thought certainly is intriguing!

I wish there'd been a line or two about this in the episode - but since there wasn't, I'll think of this episode as Odo's "Inner Light" ;)
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Elnis
Fri, Aug 23, 2013, 4:25pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: Soldiers of the Empire

To me, this was the best Klingon/Worf episode I've seen so far - including all the TNG episodes.

I've never liked the Klingons. I like the CONCEPT of a species that lives for honor and battle - but the way Klingons have been presented has been filled with obvious contradictions. An example: we learn again and again that honor is everything, and Klingons would die in glorious battle before retreating, running away or let themselves be captured and imprisoned. Yet, over and over, we meet or hear about Klingons who are still alive after retreating, running away or being imprisoned. And that's only one eaxample. The logic of the whole Klingon philosophy is full of wholes so huge that you could drive an ice cream van through them.

However, I've always liked the notion that Worf is a more strict follower of Klingon philosophy than any other Klingon we meet - he has not been disillusioned or watered down by the harsh realities of the decay of the proud Klingon Empire, such as his fellow Klingons - who live in that decay - have.
As a consequence, Worf IS proud, just, honorable and spiritual - where just about any other Klingon we meet is NOT. And here's where I get off of the bus. Worf is "the perfect" Klingon, that's all good and fine ... but why does every other Klingon have to be reduced to a cardboard figure, either fitting into the "drooling, brainless brute" box or the "deceptive liar" box?
Sure, they TALK about honor, but their actions are contrary to their statements ... over and over and over again. Surely, SOME Klingons MUST have SOME sense of the honor and spirituality Worf represents?

So, I got fed up with the nonsensical Klingons very early on. With the introduction of General Martok, however, I was intrigued. Here, finally, was another Klingon, that had more complexity to him, and who actually seemed to act according to his Klingon beliefs. At last we get another Klingon who's a good guy, someone we can root for.

In this epsiode, everything aboard the Klingon Bird of Pray made sense - it's the first time a whole Klingon episode actually made sense to me. Except for the fact that this crew was still alive after fleeing battle about a half dosen times ... really? How very Klingon of them to run away! And besides ... when was the last time we saw a defeated starship that didn't blow up?

Anyway, besides that, I felt that the whole "crew is low on morale, needs a victory" was pulled off very nicely - I could almost feel he tension in the air. All the little conversations, about duty, honor, defeat and shame walked a tightrope (between making sense and ... not) and didn't fall.

This episode gets three stars from me - 2 stars for the story, lacking in characterization as it was ... and an extra star for rekindling my interest in Worf and Klingons after 20 years of facepalming.
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Elnis
Fri, Aug 23, 2013, 1:57pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: Ferengi Love Songs

To me, this episode was completely over the top - I agree that it was a farce that just wasn't funny.

There was one thing, however, that made me laugh out loud:

Quark opens his closet door: "Brunt, FCA!"

Somehow jeffrey Combs manages to make every single line he has a hoot, no matter which character he plays. That guy is awesome!
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Elnis
Fri, Aug 23, 2013, 9:58am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: Ties of Blood and Water

Great acting all around in this epsiode! It's funny how really good acting can mean the difference between merely being a spectator and being "sucked" into the story like you were actually there.

Even Brooks pulled off a quite good performance here! (yes, I'm one of those people who think Brooks' acting is, in general, an embarassement to the show)

Combs as the curious, intrigued and light-hearted Weyoun is simply wonderful! What a great charisma that man has on screen!

And Visitor as Kira ... wow, that lady can act circles around most other good actors! The scene where she gets right up in Dukat's face, threatening him in a barely restrained tone of voice - she gets that seething fury across so well that I was half expecting her to rip out Dukat's throat!

And, of course, both Alaimo as Dukat and Pressman as Ghemor also deliver stellar performances.


I'm watching the show for the first time (all seven seasons of it) on DVD. This show has so many wonderful actors, in leading as well as supporting roles - with great characters for them to play! And the production is of a really high standard.

I'm completely hooked!
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Elnis
Thu, Aug 22, 2013, 5:42pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: Doctor Bashir, I Presume

*The episode starts - Leeta walks up to Rom at the bar. My 14-year old self shouts out through my adult mouth ...*

"BOOBS!"

.. sorry, what was this episdoe about again?

*Walks into wall repeatedly*
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Elnis
Wed, Aug 21, 2013, 5:51pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: The Darkness and the Light

I really enjoyed this episode – and I also enjoyed reading the comments you guys made. It’s an interesting discussion.

I’d like to throw this into the Big Bowl of Consideration:

At the very end, in Kira’s cryptic last speech, she’s not just talking about Prin … she’s ALSO talking about herself.

Odo asks why she was given a sedative, and this is what Kira replies, word for word:
”He wanted to protect the innocent … and separate the darkness from the light. But he didn’t realize … the light only shines in the dark … and sometimes innocence is just an excuse for the guilty.”

Cryptic indeed! What does it mean? Well, a speech like that can be interpreted in several ways. Here’s how I see it:
Kira’s talking about how Prin tried to divide the world into black and white, good (or just) actions and evil (or unjust) actions. But that’s not how the world works – the light (good/just) cannot exist independent of the darkness (evil/unjust). In other words, there’s always a grey area … and when it comes to the actions we’re talking about here, “doing the right thing” or “doing what is necessary” is an excuse that people tell themselves to justify terrible actions they feel forced to take.

Think about it for a minute: who proclaims to be innocent? Prin does, that’s right … but so does Kira! “You raped our planet, we were defending ourselves when we bombed you” is her defense for the actions she took while bombing buldings full of people while she was in the resistance.

In the heat of the argument, both Prin and Kira claim to be in the right, to be victims doing what is/was justified – but at the very end, a shocked and contemplating Kira admits to herself (and to us, the viewers) that it’s not that simple … that every party involved here (including herself) was in some way guilty – and using “innocence” as an excuse/a defense.

To me, Kira saying “all Cardassians on Bajor were guilty!” while arguing with Prin, is fully understandable. She is, after all, restrained to a table by a Cardassian who has assassinated her friends and comrades and is about to kill her. Who wouldn’t be seething with righteous fury under such circumstances?
It’s AFTER she’s had some time to think – while waiting for her rescuers from The Defiant – that we see her as the Kira, who has learned something these past years … the Kira, who is capable of asking herself some tough questions … and capable of coming to the conclusion, that things aren’t as clear-cut black and white, right and wrong, as they seemed when she was in the resistance.

At the very end, Kira realizes that, in a very unpleasant way … and here’s the big, golden point … Prin is a twisted mirror image of how Kira USED to be – or rather, of how she used to think when fighting in the resistance … and, to a large part, still thinks at this point, despite lessons learned (in”Duet”, for example). THAT’s why she looks so shook up, talking in “riddles” to (mainly) herself at the very end.

That’s what I got from this episode – so to me, this was a very, very strong character development episode for Kira.
Never mind all the plot holes (which, as has been pointed out, were abundant).
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Elnis
Tue, Aug 20, 2013, 2:04pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: Let He Who Is Without Sin...

The only thing that could've saved this episode was if Worf had actually put on those golden bathing trunks.

Just imagine it: "Bay Trek" with Worfelhoff running in slow motion along the beach.

That, at least would've made me laugh.
As it is, this episode makes me cry.
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