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Fri, Oct 20, 2017, 7:55pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Choose Your Pain

Guys, I don’t mind you bashing this show, but you can talk more Star Trek and less Hollywood? We get it, modern writers are all soulless monsters. Yet, I’m having trouble even remotely tying in what your saying to this episode.
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Fri, Oct 20, 2017, 1:52pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Choose Your Pain

"Discovery is doing just the same: It creates an enemy that we love to hate. This is not progress or a more nuanced characterization; on the contrary, it is a plump fallback to tropes that don't belong into 21st century television. Unfortunately, the makers of this TV show don't seem to know much about history."

I disagree, if anything, DIS is adding another layer to Klingon history. Regardless of what century we're in, the show is trying to depict proto-empire Klingons. If they try to make the Klingons too much like their TNG counterparts, they'd really just be disrespecting all the work that Kirk and the Enterprise, let alone the Enterprise-C, put into fighting and eventually making peace with the Klingons.

That said, since we've seen so little about how Klingon society works in DIS thus far, it's too soon to jump to any conclusions. Since Goldsman has said DIS plans to tie up ends to make sure DIS fits canonically, there's likely a planned story arc for how the Klingons change to become the familiar adversaries of later Treks.
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Fri, Oct 20, 2017, 11:35am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S4: Future Imperfect

@Hunter

I like the Romulan plot being a red herring, though. The ending may seem a little hokey, but this is really a piece about Riker appreciating his life and all the things he's accomplished, and hasn't accomplished, on his birthday. It's kind of a precursor to "All Good Things" because we get a glimpse of just a possible future, one that isn't certain. But it's also a future where Riker can't be completely happy, perhaps because it's too perfect (though perfection itself turns out to be its undoing).

In the end, I think Riker was grateful for the experience, and at least appreciated that an alien life form wanted to make a friend by giving Riker a role as his father.
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Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 9:15pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Choose Your Pain

Discovery's producer confirms Spock will not appear on the series, talks about canon, following seasons:

https://www.polygon.com/platform/amp/tv/2017/10/18/16500810/star-trek-discovery-continuity-original-series
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Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 7:17pm (UTC -5)
Re: ORV S1: Krill

@OTDP

I don’t think English isn’t Konstantinos’ first language, at least he was posting like this in other threads and I was having trouble parsing his sentences. Anyway, yeah, 3 stars is a good score so obviously Jammer liked this one.
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Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 11:42am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Choose Your Pain

Thanks Peremensoe, for your thoughtful comment. You really nailed the Trek morality topic there, I'm tempted to frame that and put it up on my wall.

I think a great example that illustrates how a immoral character can tell a morality tale is none other than "A Christmas Carol". There, Scrooge is both the antagonist AND the protagonist because he's fighting his own demons in order to understand why he came to be what he is. If Scrooge started the story out as just some normal and decent guy with an attitude you'd expect around Christmas, there would be no conflict, and thus no story. That a selfish character like Scrooge can make such a dramatic change in conscience is exactly what makes the story so involving. So yes, flawed characters can tell very moving moral stories.

@Yanks

I tried watching it, but I ran out of time because of family stuff. I'm not all that invested in the "All-Access" fluff, but I'd be interested to know if anything important comes of it, too.
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Tue, Oct 17, 2017, 4:12pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Choose Your Pain

@Peter G.

I never said hydrating the tartigrade was a great solution; there would obviously be repercussions and it was potentially dangerous. It was also a morally ambiguous solution that Saru decided was better making than letting his Captain die. But the episode did nevertheless present hydration as a "workable" option.
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Tue, Oct 17, 2017, 1:39pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Choose Your Pain

'Saru's command to "just wake it up, do whatever you have to" was amongst the dumbest moments in Trek, where it wasn't even brought up how they could possibly do that or what state it would have to be in to function as navigator.'

One of the science officers, I believe, suggested that the tartigrade could be awakened by hydration, and it was Saru's expectation that they'd do just that. They've been using the creature for weeks now and likely have a better understanding of its biology. Anyway, I think because Stamets realized the risks to the creature were too great, he stepped in and used the stop-gap solution he and Burnham figured out instead.
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Tue, Oct 17, 2017, 11:40am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Choose Your Pain

I've heard this site been called many things, but never a "hate" page. If anything, he gave this episode mixed reviews while siding on the side of positive. The same could be said of many of his Voyager reviews, I guess?

Though it should be said you can critique something and still like it. I critiqued the heck out of DS9's "Apocalypse Rising", but I still thoroughly enjoy the episode. After multiple viewings, I just felt like it could've been more. No big deal.
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Tue, Oct 17, 2017, 10:29am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Choose Your Pain

@Latex Zebra

But, but - there's no money in the 23rd century! Aren't monetary fines kind of pointless? They should take away her holodeck privileges or make her clean the tartigrade droppings.
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Tue, Oct 17, 2017, 9:59am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Choose Your Pain

"This sort of thing is perhaps one of the biggest drawbacks to serialized story telling; you miss part of one 'wedding' episode and spend the next month wondering where half of the characters named Stark went..."

True, but then again you're now free to go back and watch any episode at anytime and jump to the parts you want to see. This type of writing might make for a better rewatch, which is often the case with Trek.

I wonder if there are some bloggers out there keeping track of all the little details? It seems like you get a richer experience if you takes notes of all the little nuggets of info that may not be relevant to the episode they appear in.
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Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 3:53pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Choose Your Pain

@Black Ajah

"The gay scene was too long for your "taste"?

Please read my entire post, as I was actually defending the need for the scene. My criticism was on the length, but that's a criticism I'd lodge against some scenes with Riker and Troi in TNG too.
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Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 11:08am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Choose Your Pain

@BZ

You make it sound like it was commonplace for the good guys to infiltrate, but it was really extremely rare that we saw it, and it made almost no sense when we did see it (especially in the DS9 example). But I don't disagree, as I was also thinking the Romulans *were* the Klingons of TNG. I.e., they were the Cold War foes with spies all about. We were also treated to some McCarthyism-type episodes with TNG's "The Drumhead" where having even a trace of Romulan blood made you a traitor.

It would be interesting to see if DSC went the spy route, though I always have this feeling Lorca is somehow one step ahead of everyone else.
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Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 10:40am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Choose Your Pain

Klingon spies sound totally TOS to me. TNG was my first Trek (aside from the movies), but I was so shocked when I saw "The Trouble With Tribbles" and found out some ordinary human-looking person (Darvis) could be a Klingon. Back in the TOS days, the communist spy tropes were strong, it basically felt like anyone could be a Klingon or *become* a Klingon.

"Michael is slowly becoming the Wesley Crusher of Trek. The know-it-all, self-righteous who gets away with defying the captain and expects everyone to kowtow to his/her genius."

Except the whole, you know, getting put in prison thing. Wesley would just warp out of prison and then we'd see him having a root beer float with The Traveler.
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Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 7:20am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Choose Your Pain

While the gay couple scene was a little long for my tastes, Stamets showing fallout from using himself to navigate the spore drive was tagental to the story. The scene needed to be done to show that while he seemed okay even to people close to him, something was very and forebodingly wrong.
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Sun, Oct 15, 2017, 9:56pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Choose Your Pain

@Del_Duio

I don’t think you need to be proven character to cuss. The whole swearing conversation got started by a woman with autism, so the awkwardness fits the her character’s trait in that scene. Kind of like Data saying “Oh SH*T!” in Generations, though I buy Tilly using it a little more precisely because I don’t think of her as too good to swear yet.
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Sun, Oct 15, 2017, 9:35pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Choose Your Pain

I agree mostly with Karl Zimmerman’s review above, I’ll talk more on this one later but I liked it.

“Blah oh man swears and Trek don't mix. ”

Not a fan of Star Trek: The Voyage Home?
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Sun, Oct 15, 2017, 6:08pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry

@Dom

What I’m referring to is Kirk’s speech at the denouement of the film. You’re describing an event that happens towards the end of the climax. Anyhow, if you read my review of Into Darkness, you’d see I’m not a fan. But I know people who like it, so maybe it’s just not the version of Trek for me. And that’s okay.

@Alexandrea

You’re right, a cold war parallel between superpowers isn’t immediately relevant to our world. I suppose there’s some commentary on religious zealotry in DSC, but perhaps it’s too early to gauge where they’re going with the Klingons. From this episode at least, it looks like they want us to sympathize with a faction of them.
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Sun, Oct 15, 2017, 1:06pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry

The morals are still there, they’re just being told from a different starting position. It’s the same with the Abrams movies. Funnily enough, I decided to dive into the Star Trek: Into Darkness comment section and it looks like we already had this same discussion. Not that I’ve changed my mind about ST:ID, I’m just reminded how dark and action packed that film was YET, it ended on a very upbeat high moral note. I wholly expect the same from Discovery.

I guess you could say “it’s not Trek” if you define Trek as the 90s era television show, but I’d like to think the Trek tent is larger than that. Indeed I remember these same discussions back when DS9 was airing and the same comparisons being made to TOS. “Where’s Kirk to come in and show Sisko how Trek’s really done?” Some things never change.

Jammer puts it best when he says that as the franchise continues, there will be different versions of Trek, each fitting its era in its own right. As long as all these iterations reach the core of Trek, seeking out new life, and new civilizations, boldly traveling space, the Trek legacy continues.
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Thu, Oct 12, 2017, 4:25pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry

"P.S. Comparing Elon Musk to the Wright Brothers/Cochrane is wrong even in the best case scenario where all of his projects succeed. Musk is a financier with no scientific work of his own. He funds others creating his vision (or maybe their vision if they convinced him). The others are engineers or scientists. They work on their own vision directly and get people like Mush to fund it. "

I think you're underselling Musk. If you look at many of the projects he's achieved with SpaceX (reusable space launchpads, private commercial spaceflight) and his aspirations like Mars colonization, he has pioneered some significant projects. The point isn't whether he personally invented all this stuff, the point is that he's got the vision to do things in space that other contemporary figures lack. And it's pretty clear they wanted to use a contemporary figure; the ones you mentioned like Gates, Jobs, and Edison don't really fit the whole flight theme alongside Wright and Cochran.
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Thu, Oct 12, 2017, 1:13pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry

I could see why Sonequa Martin would get criticism, but the Michael character seems incredibly difficult to play. I'd give her a little more time before throwing her to the wolves. Brent Spiner's Data, another complicated character, was terrible for about a year before he made it into one of the most involving figures in the franchise.

Oh yes, and DSC also gets major points for not having any character close to as annoying as Wesley Crusher or Neelix. TNG was lucky enough to survive Wesley, I'm not sure I could say the same in VOY's case.
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Thu, Oct 12, 2017, 10:10am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S7: Badda-Bing, Badda-Bang

"That's why I watch Star Trek, not because of political ideals that I don't care about. I think that some of the more obsessed fans forget that this is a fictional show about a future that is never going to happen, because it depends on scientific/physical impossibilities."

That's great, but you do kind of get that writers use television shows as an instrument to express their opinions, right? Whether you don't appreciate the commentary or not, the commentary still exists.
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Wed, Oct 11, 2017, 1:41pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry

@Peter G.

I wouldn't say DSC shot itself in the foot; indeed Sarek is already a figure in the series who will likely lead to some payoff. Then there's always the option to have Spock, who would have just started his career in the prime timeline, appear. Kirk might be done with his academy years too, so depending on what direction the showrunners want to go, there's seems to be many options available from popular Trek history.

It might be better if they did a show 15 years after Voyager or something like RLM suggested so all the TNG/DS9 actors could come in at the appropriate age, but for whatever reason the powers that be don't like that idea. Maybe it's just easier to reuse ST:2009's sets/props like TNG did with the TOS movies? Or maybe a show in the future would be stepping on Star Trek: Online or some other project the franchise has planned.

At least I like the idea that DSC is doing something creative and different. Maybe it will payoff, maybe it won't.
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Wed, Oct 11, 2017, 12:32pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry

DS9 was fortunate enough to have a lot of stories seeded from TNG ready to go from the start of its story. Putting aside the fact that "The Best of Both Worlds" and Patrick Stewart himself were directly used to add weight to the pilot, "Ensign Ro" successfully seeded the whole Bajoran conflict, with episodes like "The Wounded" providing a proven Cardassian character actor, "Marc Alaimo". Then there's Miles and Keiko with their direct connection to the Enterprise-D.

Granted there are some bad plots from the TNG stories like, "Q-Less", but I think overall DS9 benefited from being the companion piece to TNG. DSC doesn't have that advantage, and also has to work with a fanbase that may only know Star Trek from the 2009-onward movies.
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Wed, Oct 11, 2017, 10:30am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: The Butcher's Knife Cares Not for the Lamb's Cry

This discussion reminds me...

Red Letter Media actually had some interesting thoughts about the franchise in their review of Discovery. Though I don't think Rich liked it at all like Mike did, they both agreed that you couldn't really make shows like TNG anymore because the formula had been done to death. Even TNG, in its 7th season was getting pretty tired. DS9 was clever enough to do something way different than TNG and it paid off. VOY, on the other hand, tried to just be TNG again and it suffered from a lot of the sloppy writing and stale issues TNG's seventh season did.

ENT's biggest problem was that it was way too removed from the other shows, yet it was still just trying to do the weekly starship thing TNG/TOS did. Even when the ratings started tanking, they couldn't throw in Scottie or a time-travelling LaForge to help save it because the era gap was so big.

- So I don't know, I haven't seen enough ENT to even say I agree with that point, but I think it's valid to say "You can never go home again" when it comes to TNG. I think The Orville tries, it *really* does, but it's just not the same.
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