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Sun, Dec 17, 2017, 10:25pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S1: Datalore

I don’t see how The Joker is vaguely Oriental/Arabic. Anyhow, you guys are taking this discussion way off topic just so you can bash Batman movies. At least try to stay on the topic of why or why not Lore works as a villain.
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Fri, Dec 15, 2017, 5:11am (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S1: Datalore

@DLPB

You haven’t explained why an academy-award winning film is “garbage” let alone why “good fiction” requires villains with clearly written backstories, so you haven’t provided anything to discuss.

Though I’ll provide another example. The Mule in the Foundation novels has no clear backstory and no clear motive, yet it’s his very chaotic nature that the order-focused Seldon Plan is vulnerable to. Not all antagonists need an agenda, sometimes lacking reasoning is enough to catch a reasoning hero off guard.
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Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 9:19am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S6: In the Pale Moonlight

I checked the script, and it looks like Garak was supposed to be "unusually subdued" during the scene where he informs Sisko all his informants were killed. Thus, I think this *might* be a rare case of Robinson not delivering his lines properly.

We're also missing a piece of information for Peter's interpretation to work. Why would Garak know about the activity of Betazoid and also what would make him even think that would get Starfleet to accept his plan? Someone's probably thinking "Garak's a spy, he can get access to any records!", but without any indication Garak was fiddling with a Federation console or something, that speculation seems dubious at best.

So, while I really agree Peter's interpretation is interesting, I think the showrunners were trying to tell us that the Dominion was so powerful, even Garak's usually handy abilities were initially thwarted.
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Wed, Nov 29, 2017, 9:54am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

@Brian

I believe TNG reviews score lower than say, Voyager reviews, on this site because they are retrospective reviews. I.e., Jammer's take on a given Voyager episode was right after he saw it, while the show was still fresh to him. The TNG reviews, on the other hand, were written well after DS9, which gave Jammer the hindsight to see what worked and what didn't work for TNG and the franchise overall.

But could you imagine a review from 1987 about TNG? A lot of the production work that looks goofy now was significantly more amazing at the time. Indeed, I've noticed recent comments often pondering how TNG ever survived its first season. The answer: TNG was freaking cool to watch in the 80s!

Anyhow, while I agree that a 3 star Voyager episode generally is nowhere as good as a 3 star TNG episode, I would be careful to say the same about this show. This series could end up being "low tier", but if the showrunners work hard to make future shows click the way "Into the Forest I Go" does, there's a chance we'll have good tier Trek that we can look back on and enjoy.
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Sun, Nov 19, 2017, 12:32am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

@Andy

I believe Lt. Commander Airiam (the augmented robot-like officer) is the next highest ranking officer after Saru. Stamets and Tyler are both lieutenants, but if it came down to brass tacks, I wager Stamets is next because of seniority.
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Sat, Nov 18, 2017, 10:41am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

@Ed

“One could argue that post-scarcity in the Star Trek universe is limited by need for exotic materials like dilithium. This necessitates at least some colonies if the trade goods in one's home system aren't sufficient to buy them. ”

The need for goods doesn’t *necessitate* colonialism. I would imagine the Federation has its own rare goods and could also barter other things like military protection, safe access to routes via their wormholes, or access to pleasure planets like Risa. Colonization is a primitive concept used when a technologically superior race wishes to exploit relatively weaker peoples for their own gain.

I could imagine the Klingons subscribing to colonization as an answer to their resource problems because they do not have any consideration for races they feel are militarily inferior. This doesn’t really change in modern Trek until Martok comes to power, as he’s really the first politically important Klingon that has no problems working with people over lower status (probably due to his own low-caste birth status).
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Sat, Nov 18, 2017, 9:44am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

“I feel DS9's first season is also underrated.”

Underrated by who? It certainly gets the highest rated score on this site with only TOS being close.

Incidentally, I’ll rewatch Discovery and reevaluate the shows when the season’s over and Jammer makes a season recap thread. Due to the nature of serialization, it feels like these episodes will watch much differently when the season is done and we see where the writers were going. Hopefully, they’re going somewhere good with all this!
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Fri, Nov 17, 2017, 5:18pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

"I don't have to go skydiving to know that I probably won't enjoy it if I'm afraid of heights."

Sure, but would you go on a skydiving messaging board, and tell people how awful their skydiving videos are every week based on your zero experience? That's basically what's going on with these comments. It's really no wonder some people don't appreciate them.
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Fri, Nov 17, 2017, 12:14pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

So OmicronThetaDeltaPhi, have you seen this episode yet? /s
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Thu, Nov 16, 2017, 9:43am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: The Vulcan Hello / Battle at the Binary Stars

I think Peter G.'s right, but I wanted to address the "how did the Klingons know about the Federation" point. From the pilot alone we know that the Vulcans had past dealings with the Klingons, which means at least they have had contact. If Vulcan was separate at that time and are now part of the Federation, we could instantly conclude where the Klingons get their reasoning from.

But using inductive logic, we could be also imagine a valuable system like Pahvo that the Klingons would be interested in for military purposes, only to see the Federation first snap it up and claim it as their federated territory.

I'm sure there's plenty of real world analogies out there, but I was reminded of how the USA and Russia (or even China) compete to have spheres of influence. If one superpower becomes dominant in the area, it can be perceived as a threat to the other superpower(s).
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Wed, Nov 15, 2017, 4:54pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S3: Hollow Pursuits

"Although written as just painfully shy I wonder whether Dwight Shulz was trying to suggest someone on the low end of the autistic spectrum."

Funny, I mentioned Barclay's character as a comparison to Tilly in another thread. Still, I'm not sure it's autism, as there could be many social anxiety disorders that could explain Barclay's condition. Or maybe he's just a quirky guy.
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Wed, Nov 15, 2017, 3:35pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S6: True Q

@Anthony

No real mystery here. Dr. Crusher took a shining to Amanda for her abilities, and since Crusher one of the few people who can twist the Captain's arm (see Wesley), he probably decided to meet her after Bev's recommendation.
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Wed, Nov 15, 2017, 1:02pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

My video worked fine for the season finale, first watched it using the CBAA app on my iPad then watched it on my apple TV later and it worked fine. The only problems I've had were watching "Lethe". Still waiting for the CBS apology on that one. :-)

'Regardless, it seems Brian Fuller's rejected pitch is what Discovery is becoming: Trek meets Sliders, with Lorca looking to fix the wrongs in his "home universe" using the Discovery.'

Hopefully not. I can see why such a pitch would be rejected though. At least the writers we have now are post-Sliders, and have probably learned not to ape a cancelled show. It might be cool for Discovery to visit other universes occasionally and see entirely new species rather than evil goatee-replicas. Though, I'd think the first priority of the crew would be to attempt to get back to the prime universe (assuming they've left it).
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Wed, Nov 15, 2017, 10:51am (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S1: Encounter at Farpoint

@Peter G.

Interesting review, and I do agree "Farpoint" is fairly underrated. I might personally put it behind "Emissary" but about the same level as "Vulcan Hello / Binary Stars". I love Stewart's initial characterization and actually find it to be one of the charms of season one. It was actually pretty funny to see characters like Wesley get their comeuppance at the hands of Picard in several episodes.

To address your second point, I think it's good the way Q is impish! I think it adds to his alienness. If we're really supposed to believe he's a supreme being that's radically different than humans, he needn't follow the rules of what humans consider etiquette. In fact, Q has his own morals, as noted in "True Q", which he calls 'superior morality'. Sure, we may see him toying with the gaseous beings in "Deja Q", but we have no idea what the context of his meddling was. Maybe he was testing those beings, but in a different manner than he'd test humanity.

I agree, though, that DS9 and Voyager's outings are a bit too comical, which I chalk up to bad writing. Once Q became a mere cameo villain, it almost seems like the writers didn't need to care about what the episode was about as long as there were *crazy Q shenanigans*. Still, I think "Death Wish" at least aspired to be more, even if it was campy at times.

Finally, I think we need to recognize that DeLancie is so good at both being serious and at physical comedy (a rare genius that actors like Will Smith have). So, it's good to have some Trek scripts that utilize DeLancie's playfulness, or impishness as you call it.
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Tue, Nov 14, 2017, 9:14pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

I don’t think cloaking devices became perfected until a decade or two after Discovery. In TOS’s “The Enterprise Incident”, the Romulans finally perfected the cloak and the Enterprise was sent to steal the technology. The Klingons then acquired that cloak some time later. So, it’s probably internally consistent that the Discovery could sense older Klingon cloaking power signatures but not pinpoint their exact location.
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Tue, Nov 14, 2017, 3:41pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

And Jammer's point is it's hard to have the intellectual discussions you claim to desire if you can't bring up facts based on your own observations. Would you like to spend your days listening to me critique movies that come out weekly based solely on what I read in the NY Times and people who agreed with the NY Times' opinion?

Personally, I don't care if you stay or go, but let's not be melodramatic. If you're going to discuss an artwork without perceiving it, you need to expect some backlash.
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Tue, Nov 14, 2017, 3:15pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

"Lorca's interest in science and defense of the planet come out of nowhere."

A more cynical reading of this scene would be that Lorca, who is known for manipulating things to get what he wants done, brushed up on Stamets' work in order to convince him that he actually cared about exploration (and defending a planet) and not just winning.

On the other hand, I don't think we should simply brush aside Lorca's interest in science as a ruse. There was a reason he was assigned to science vessel to begin with. It's also implied he'd been working with the spore drive for a long time. Furthermore, we know he downloaded logs from the Glenn with their maps , so there was ample opportunity for him to study the spore network before the Discovery got into making its jumps.

Treks like TNG and DS9 seldom show their captains putting in research time, but given the franchise's characterization of these captains as Renaissance men (and women), it's pretty safe to conclude they're all interested in science, particularly science related to improving space exploration.
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Mon, Nov 13, 2017, 1:24pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

I actually agree with Thomas, I don't want to see this going into multiple parallel universes, MU notwithstanding. At that point, this will become more science fantasy like Thor than Sci-Fi. (Though, I've heard there's schools of thought in string theory that mention parallel universes). But, it sounds so under-researched that it might make a weak foundation for a show.

It could also suffer from the Sliders-syndrome, where every week we get a "wacky new universe that's just like ours but with a twist"TM. Those kinds of shows are good occasionally, but I think they've done so much world building in the Prime universe at this point it would be a shame just to cast everything to the wind. Why even set the show in the Prime universe at that point?

Luckily, Frakes' comment reads more like they'll do a single MU show, but not make it a new premise for the entire series.
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Mon, Nov 13, 2017, 9:04am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

@Galadriel

'There is another thing which I noticed only on second viewing: Immediately before the last, ill-fated jump, Lorca types coordinates into a touchpad, and for half a second you can read the line “Override-Lorca“ on the screen (ca. 43:40). Immediately afterwards, he says “Let’s go home”.'

Seriously? Okay, scratch what I said about Lorca earlier. I suppose the writers were trying to portray him as a good guy this episode to hide his true nature? But I wouldn't think Lorca actually plotted this course, maybe he just sabotaged the jump in hopes he'd end up in another quadrant. Extremely risky, though, what if they ended up near a star again? Are the chances of that so infinitesimal that it's worth risking?


"All this series needs now is full on rape subplots, edgy sodomy, child murder"

TNG already did this. Tasha came from a horrible place...
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Sun, Nov 12, 2017, 8:32pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Into the Forest I Go

Very intense episode, it played out like a thriller! I quite enjoyed it, many ups like Burnham taking down the Klingon ship and saving Cornwell, as well as many downs like Tyler experiencing PTSD and Stamets finally breaking down after spinning the roulette wheel one too many times.

Many questions were left unanswered, including where the heck is the Discovery now? But I loved Lorca in this one, no doubt. A high 3.5 stars from this Trekker.

P.S. First gay kiss in a Trek show. Will people complain...?
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Sun, Nov 12, 2017, 1:30pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

“I cannot understand the silly American obsession with wanting to see oneself on-screen.”

You frame this as if it’s specific to America, but I can assure you the highest rated television show in most developed countries is made in the respective country using characters from that country. There’s absolutely nothing “obsessive” about wanting to watch a TV with characters whom you can relate because they share many of your values.

If you’re trying to take the high ground by saying more television is exported by Americans for world consumption than it is imported then that’s accurate. However, American television is often superior, at least from a production standpoint, because of how much more lucrative TV is for sponsors (even foreign sponsors) than it is any other part of the world. In other words, it’s not an apples to apples comparison. You may as well ask why the French are so obsessed with their own wine when Napa Valley has some perfectly good wine to choose from.
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Sun, Nov 12, 2017, 9:56am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

I actually like the title of this one (Lethe too), I just don’t think the episode lives up to the hype. If you’re going to use a Latin title, you better make a damn good episode like “Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges”.
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Thu, Nov 9, 2017, 11:16am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

I would certainly argue that Mudd's a better use of a TOS character than say, Khan was in ST:ID. It's hard to buy that Mudd's a token use of a character, because, quite frankly, many newer fans have no idea who Mudd is. I.e., there's limited value in name dropping him for those fans, because it's just a new character to them.

Contrast that with Khan who is singularly the most famous villain, perhaps in all Sci-Fi movies, after Darth Vader. Reusing Khan seems more like a token ploy to me, because it's basically guaranteeing a certain nostalgic response from the general audience and fans alike.

Yes, Mudd was a recurring character in TOS, but he's no Khan, or even a Matt Decker or Charlie X. He's a roguish character with an uncertain past which does open up possibilities for new writers to have a crack at him. It certainly didn't hurt that they gave the role to a talented actor like Rainn Wilson, who actually has the range to play Mudd. Sure, Wilson's take on the character is bit more sadistic, but then we're witnessing only one part of his life. And Mudd had a good reason to act sadistic; in his previous appearance Lorca was a jerk, can you really blame Mudd for wanting revenge?
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Thu, Nov 9, 2017, 10:20am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

"I think maybe...just maybe, there's a third option"

What's the third option? Do you need to keep it hidden?
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Thu, Nov 9, 2017, 9:32am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

A cadet like Tilly knowing who Burnham was by reputation is enough to show that she's infamous at Starfleet for criminal behavior. I think Burnham mentioned something about it one of her logs too, or am I imagining things?

@Yanks
"Discovery has a lot of "trek" in it. I acknowledge that sometimes it's just lip-service, but many times it's very true to it's roots."

It's funny because I'm not sure what they can do at this point to avoid this criticism. If they make any attempt to connect the continuities people complain that it's lip service, but if they ignore the continuities people will complain this isn't Trek. I would hate to be a writer for this show. Or maybe I just wouldn't read message boards. :-)
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