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Del_Duio - Thu, Apr 16, 2015, 12:28pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S7: Treachery, Faith, and the Great River

"Of course the big reveal is that the Founders are dying... and for some reason Odo isn't. Now Odo thinks no matter who wins, he is going to lose."

Though this last line was predictable, it didn't make it any less powerful. 4-star episode for me as well.

@ Jeff: I think the writers were going for something akin to TNG's "Relics" as far as Sisko is concerned. Remember the conversation Geordi and Scotty had about how Captains are like babies: How long will it take? How long will it REALLY take? What!? Ye' dinna' tell him how long it'd REALLY TAKE??!

Del_Duio - Thu, Apr 16, 2015, 12:06pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S7: Once More Unto the Breach

This episode is so great.. Kor goes out with a bang and earns Martok's respect finally, some really great acting chops all around (except for that Klingon woman who strangely sounds a lot like Nog lol.)

The shots with the Birds of Prey attacking surface objects was awesome and very unexpected. Had they ever done any ship to ground attacks within a planet's atmosphere before this point? I can't recall and I've seen them all before. Hmmm.
zzybaloobah - Thu, Apr 16, 2015, 10:15am (USA Central)
Re: BSG S3: A Measure of Salvation

One of BSGs worst (which is still watchable).

1) The implasuibility of the whole thing. How does a virus infect a software download? And how would it infect all Cylons -- there's Cylons back on the colonies out of range of this ressurection ship; for all we know, there's Cylons back wherever-they-went-between-wars. The idea that you'd get them all is silly. (And maybe that helps the moral argument -- you only kill the Cylons coming after you...)

2) The MASSIVE reset button. No consequences for Helo. And no attempt to try again. They have the virus. Surely they can come up with some scheme to capture some Cylons and infect them?

(Now for a rehash of a thread discussed on the DS9 board about the Federation's use of a bio-weapon against the Founders. Another example of ST using genocide...and I won't even mention General Order 24 -- whoops, I did it again.)

It's self defense. Which goes beyond mere survival -- my starving doesn't justify stealing food -- in that case, it would be "nobler" to starve than to steal. But when you're continually *fleeing* and being threatened with genocide, it is morally acceptable to use genocide in self defense.

Yes, it probably haunts you the rest of your life. But you live with it. There's nothing "noble" about not resisting extermination.
Michael - Thu, Apr 16, 2015, 9:55am (USA Central)
Re: ENT S1: Fortunate Son


Given the amount of hot air in your post, I'd say the climate has already irrevocably changed.

All I see amid your bloviations are idle hypotheses. If X hadn't done this, if Y hadn't done that, if Z had done the other, A would have happened, B would have happened differently, C would not have happened at all, yadda-yadda-yadda. Because, won't you know it, the West (America, naturally, in particular) is the root of all evil. If I am a caricature of the Right's idiocy and ahistoricisms, you are a caricature of the Left's belligerence toward all dissent from the imposed consensus of the Cultural Marxist narrative. (Extra moron points for the "racism" aspersion. All it confirms is YOUR racism because it shows that YOU treat Moslems a certain way by reason of its being largely a religion adhered to by little "brown" people who need your protection from "enlightened" "openminded" pricks like you. Somehow, I doubt you are as enlightened when it comes to, say, Christianity, but that, in your warped world, is okay.)

I will not delve into the dozen of what-ifs because it is an exercise in futility. Yes, tings might have turned out completely different, they may have been delayed, or they may have turned out the same under someone else's fiat. The Western hegemony is by no means perfect. We made our fair share of mistakes. That is the nature of things though. Whenever there are even just two of any organic entities (be they even mere plants), there is a power relationship. It is, accordingly, inevitable that there should have been a succession of potentates and empires from the days humans began organizing themselves into tribes, then communities, societies, states, civilizations, etc. With that in mind, if it hadn't been evil old West calling the shots over the past X decades/centuries/millennia, it would've been someone else. And tell you what, pal: I'd infinitely rather have the West running the world than someone like Russia, China, Iran, Brazil, etc. America, for all its faults, has been by far the most benevolent and altruistic superpower ever seen in recorded history. We never went on an expansionist spree all over the world, we never sought to forcibly convert anyone to our values or beliefs, we never brazenly pillaged and plundered dozens of states dry with fleets of vessels transporting purloined goods to the motherland.

Slavery is our biggest stain from the past. Our support for Saudi Barbaria is our biggest stain in the present. We did a lot of crap the world over. But, and I'll be flippant here: SO WHAT! If we wouldn't have done it, someone else would have. People, individually, are scumbags. Overall though, I sure am glad it's been America in charge.

As far as the Islamic State, it originated in Syria (where, (in)famously, there was ZERO U.S. involvement). Plus, with or without the Second Gulf War, the eponymous Arab Spring would have happened, including in Saddam's Iraq, and Saddam would guaranteed have been extremely brutal in suppressing it, which, again, would likely have generated the Islamic State. It might be speculative, but no more nor less than your conjectures.

And now for the coup de grace. Islamic savagery did not begin with the "brutalization" of lovely, peaceful Moslems by the aggressive, avaricious West. The sub-animals slicing off innocent people's heads by the thousand, kidnapping/raping/enslaving girls as young as eight by the thousand, stoning people, throwing people off tower blocks, etc., etc., etc. are not doing that because they are mad at the West or because they're "poor" or "disenfranchised" or f**k knows what other excuse you have for them. If you truly believe that, then not only are you incredibly dumb, but also ineffably racist. There have been HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of people throughout human history who had (and hey, are STILL having to!) to endure FAR worse that what those mofos supposedly experienced; yet, they did not turn into savage beasts.

No. The answer is found in their ideology. You obviously don't know s**t about the history of Islam. If you did, you would recognize that their actions are both catalyzed and endorsed by the Islamic creed. You would know they are following both the commandments AND EXAMPLE of the progenitors of Islam from its earliest days.

Or maybe you could talk to my wife. She is a "brown" Arab - yes, can you believe it! Me, a "racist," giving my heart and soul to a "brown" woman! - who suffered years of relentless daily physical and psychological abuse at the hands of her family. As did (and do) her sisters. And her friends. And pretty much all the women in her (former) community. I bet it's because their families have been victimized by the West though, right!

What a putz.

P.S. I'm not on the Right. If anything, I espouse probably as many liberal positions as conservative ones. If I *have* to label myself, which only bigots such as you demand, then I am Libertarian.
MsV - Thu, Apr 16, 2015, 1:41am (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S1: The Forsaken

I loved Lwaxanna's dresses. The one she wore when she started flirting with him in his office. All of those swirls were in the right places, all on a sheer back. She may have been annoying on both TNG and DS9, but she looked great. Mrs Roddenbury was in her 60's twenty years ago.
zzybaloobah - Thu, Apr 16, 2015, 1:24am (USA Central)
Re: BSG S3: Unfinished Business

In the opening, Dee is talking to Adama how people are getting sloppy and things not getting taken care of. I think Adama is frustrated, and when he sees the Chief and his deckhand (who should be fixing a bird) at the boxing, he realizes *he* needs to take out some aggression. For the whole premise to work (and I don't think it would), it has to be about hitting someone, not necessarily winning the fight.

And I don't think Adama "sucker-punched" the Chief. The bell went off and Tyrol didn't have his guard up. He should have; he didn't, and he got decked. I thought that was a point Adama wanted to make -- there are times you can't let your guard down.

Lee and Kara. Yawn. Yes, they're hoplessly in love. But Kara is so messed up..... If I were Lee, I'd take up drinking; in the long run it will do less damage. And yeah, Lee should have stomped her.

Dee. I don't understand the dislike here. I like her, I liked Billy. I liked her and Billy much more than her and Lee. I don't think she was unfaithful, or unkind, or whatever to Billy. I think Billy read in something that wasn't there and maybe moved too fast. I think she was truly blind-sided when he proposed to her. When Lee and Dee are in the bar and Billy comes in and Dee says "It's not what you think", I believe her.
zzybaloobah - Thu, Apr 16, 2015, 12:50am (USA Central)
Re: BSG S3: Hero

Adama has said flat out "I don't do guilt", don't second-guess your calls, etc... So, yeah, the "I started the war" pity party seems out of character.

Love Tigh in this one. He's always been a little rough around the edges, but these days he's over the top. But dead on in his dialog to Bulldog.

I wish they'd made Bulldog a regular.
Sparrow - Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 11:19pm (USA Central)
Re: ENT S1: Fortunate Son

Michael, you're such a caricature of right wing idiocy, ahistoricms and racism it's not even funny.

The West has armed, funded and fanned terrorists and dictators in virtually every country in the middle east, is supporting about 6 theocratic regimes in the region (we're still helping the Saudi kings kill protesters and civil rights activists) and has subverted every democratic movement in the region via coups, the installation of dictators, assassinations and the funding of terrorist groups. Any progressive leader in the middle east is systematically killed by the West and replaced with barbarism so as to maintain a hold on resources and prevent the nationalisation of minerals/oil.

No America/UK/France = no Boko Harram, no ISIS, no alqueda, no Saddam (a CIA asset for most of his life), no Muslim Brotherhood etc etc. Go learn the history of Egypt in the 1900s and how the US has repeatedly couped it. Go learn what it did in Libya in the 50s and 60s. Go learn about America's deals with alqueda and Pakistan, setting up villages in northern Pakistan specifically so we can drone them easier, or how we destroyed elections in Iraq and put Saddam in power, or how we continue to arm repressive monarchs, knowing full well they're funnelling arms and money to terrorist groups we pretend to hate but often depend upon to fight our proxy battles.

The West destabalized everywhere, created Islamic extremists and regressed a region which would have been working toward secularism and probably even atheism by this point if left alone. And you have the gall to make a blanket condemnation of "Muslims". People like you are dangerous morons, who have spewed the same ignorance against similar groups throughout history. People like you said the same about the Irish, about the French Revolutionaries, about the Boxer Rebels, about the Chinese, about the Africans, about the slaves, about every group that has stood in the way of easy profit.

Look at Iraq for example; the moment Iraq had free elections the US and UK swept in, couped up the place, backed monarchs, installed Saddam, armed him, used him for a proxy war against Iran, removed him, replaced him with puppets knowing full well this would lead to factionalism and...and now look at Iraq; a hellhole in which we're fighting bad guys (ISIS) we funded and armed in a country nextdoor (Syria) to oust a leader (Assad) who himself would not have been in power had we not spend 50 years couping Syria. All this because Bush Jr and Bush Sr (a CIA chiftain) and Bush Granddaddy (a banker of course) can't live without oil. But no, blame the Muslims. Blame them for not being smart enough to kick out a zillion dollar CIA operation in the 1950s designed solely to destroy their first chance of independence/democratic-elections.
Xylar - Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 8:20pm (USA Central)
Re: VOY S4: Vis A Vis

I'm never really fond of shapeshifting stories. One of my least favorite Trek tropes. This one was extremely transparent about it too. No mystery, no suspense, no surprises. We know exactly where the alien is, where his victims are and what's going on. If they're going to do shapeshifting/bodyswitching, I'd like to at least be kept in the dark about who is who for most of the episode. But it seems this episode wanted to focus more on Tom's position and newfound life on Voyager and his relationship with B'elanna then the actual shapeshifting thing.
Which would be fine, were it not for one thing. There's nothing to tell! Tom's life on Voyager is fine. He's doing great. He's being responsible, has a steady relationship and gets on well with everyone aboard. What's there to focus on? The fact that he suddenly gets bored of his life? Give me a break. Nothing even changes. Tom doesn't gain a newfound respect for his life of routine and stability on Voyager because he never lost it to begin with.

Tom is a little bit restless so an alien takes over his body and runs amok with it for a little while until the he and the crew sort everything out and things go back to normal. Big whoop. Who knew Tom could be just as boring as Harry?
MsV - Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 7:37pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S1: Babel

Del_Duio, Its nice to hear from someone in recent history that likes Avery's portrayal of Ben Sisko. I just enjoy Star Trek. I wish I had kept some of the articles from real critics' (who get paid) high compliments on his acting ability. Of course, they made a deal of him being an African American captain too.
MsV - Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 7:26pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S1: Babel

I wont do this twice lol. For Yanks: Surmak said when he arrived with Kira, I need to see your Drs. Viral Characterization Research. He was beginning to develop an antidote series.. Then Kira started speaking japtalian.
eastwest101 - Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 6:53pm (USA Central)
Re: ANDR S2: The Things We Cannot Change

This had me looking at my watch the entire way through, a classic case of a directionless production in full crisis mode reverting to a lazy clip show (where, lets face it, they are spoilt for choice in assembling a random bunch of the very worst parts of Andromeda) and then interspersing it with very very very poorly written and acted dream sequences material and tired cliched "disease of the week" afternoon special dialog that would have been written out of any self respecting childrens show as being "too obvious".

An aimless maudalin disaster. Minus 4 stars.

Gives TNGs 'Shades of Grey' and DS9s 'Let He Who Is Without Sin' a run for their money as the worst episode of Sci Fi ever.
45 RPM - Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 6:41pm (USA Central)
Re: ENT S4: Home

Agree w/ John TY regarding the Vulcans. Their emotions are too close to the surface. Understandable in T'Pol's case (if a little too convenient) but the others did not act in any logical, detached manner. The writers really should have paid more attention to the original depiction of Vulcans played by Leonard Nimoy, Mark Lenard, and even Tim Russ.

Ironic that Spock himself was half human. Yet he chose to embrace the Vulcan half of his heritage. His wanting (and succeeding) to be more Vulcan than a full blooded one really exposed a particular human trait, namely desire.
SamSimon - Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 2:24pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S2: Armageddon Game

I liked the episode a lot, but... it took Bashir less than an hour to neutralize the terrible weapon that had to be destroyed and all the people who knew about it with it. :--/
Grumpy - Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 10:51am (USA Central)
Re: VOY S4: Year of Hell, Part I


"Hey," say the writers, "we picked up a reference from a past episode. What more continuity do you want? Get a life!"
Grumpy - Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 10:48am (USA Central)
Re: TOS S1: The City on the Edge of Forever

IIRC, it was implied, if not stated outright, that the Guardian was protecting them from the paradox. Just as Ent-E was protected by the "temporal wake" in First Contact long enough to see the Borg's tampering with history, and Defiant was protected by its plot shields in "Past Tense."
Andrew - Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 9:01am (USA Central)
Re: TNG S3: The Vengeance Factor

This episode felt too much like a remake/update of "The Conscience of the King," with Kirk and Riker both acting out of character but Kirk to a lesser degree but being more moving.
Del_Duio - Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 6:57am (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S1: Babel

I agree with MsV: I always liked Avery's portrayal of Sisko. In fact it wasn't unit, what, 20 years later when I looked to the internet did I discover all the Brooks Bashing for his acting. Go figure.


..But I like him too :D
Adam C - Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 6:16am (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S2: Sanctuary

I can live with the Universal Translator sequence. It's a bit silly, but it's generally well acted and plausible.

What makes me crazy is this extremely bizarre sequence:
1. The matriarchs make Haneek the leader.
2. Whatshisface, Nilz Baris, expresses his condolences to Haneek for not being allowed to settle on Bajor, despite that decision not being officially disclosed. A, How does he know? He's a flautist in a bar! B, Even if he did know (through a leak, say), how in the world does he think it's his place to reveal that information instead of a government official?
2a. (Also, Kirk was right about that guy. What a tool.)
3. The official and the vedek turn down the request for refuge for valid reasons. (Note that "valid" and "correct" are not necessarily the same thing.) Sisko then reminds them about the reasonable planet.
4. Haneek goes berserk, quietly at first but with increasing heat as her sense of entitlement runs amok. A, Does she not understand that Bajor is recovering from six decades of atrocities? She seems to base her argument that it's the promised land on that fact, but still. B, Does she really think that, should the Skrreeans struggle to survive on this questionable peninsula, the Bajorans would *not* help, would allow them to perish?
5. For the rest of the episode, Kira continues to offer Haneek olive branch after olive branch, only for Haneek to smack her across the face with the branch every time.

It's so far off the rails, you can't even see the track from here. None of it makes sense. So why not send the young fellow down to be killed? It's just one more senseless act in a senseless sequence in a senseless episode. They should have stuck with the Universal Translator nonsense, which could have made for a very funny episode (and sort of did a few years later).
MsV - Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 5:34am (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S1: Babel

To DLPB: I am not concerned about whether you think his acting is bad or not, its just an opinion. I think he played a really good Ben Sisko, I was convinced of the characters sincerity and strength. He did this very well. Since I have been a fan of Star Trek since the 70's, I have heard criticism of Bill Shatner's acting and all of the other captains. Someone said they didn't like the way Shatner paused or he always overacted, I just thought he played the perfect Captain Kirk, we had no one to compare it to, since he was the first and only Captain Kirk. Personally I loved his acting. Its only an opinion. Patrick Stewart was my least favorite captain. I think and thought he was dry and boring most of the time. I said this to one of my gal pals and if looks could kill I would be dead now.

Now what I really enjoy about all of your posts is the way you critique each show, music, story, and characters. If I would do this it would ruin the show for me, but I do enjoy reading it.

We will just have to differ in our opinions, but its OK by me.
M.P. - Wed, Apr 15, 2015, 1:46am (USA Central)
Re: TNG S6: Chain of Command, Part I

Something no one, including the episode itself, has mentioned is just how detrimental Jellico's domineering style of command really was.

This is not a 21st century military vessel; it is a 24th century military/science/diplomatic/passenger vessel. You cannot compare these people to modern day military; whereas in real life the military follows orders without question to murder innocents and commit crimes against humanity; it is the duty of Starfleet to only follow morally-correct orders. Just an example of the difference; back to my point.

Jellico is destroying any sense of trust, respect, and confidence the crew would have in him. Not necessarily by getting them to work hard but by arbitrarily changing things, disrespecting their former captain, and insisting on dominating everyone with his personality.

As someone so concerned with a possible military situation arising and being as efficient and ready as possible, Jellico seems to not realize that officers who lack respect and confidence are more prone to hesitate, make mistakes, and self-doubt. Situations which one certainly does not want during a battle.

All of these previous comments have said they like Jellico. I do too; just not on this show. DS9; perhaps. BSG; well he's basically a watered-down Adama. But TNG was never meant to be those kinds of shows; and as someone who appreciates and enjoys both styles that you really can keep a show "fluffy" like TNG and still be enjoyable; while having seperate BSG-type shows that are also enjoyable. The fictional universes' are not compatible; you shouldn't try to mix-and-match. Jellico needs to go.
Jon - Tue, Apr 14, 2015, 9:40pm (USA Central)
Re: TOS S1: The City on the Edge of Forever

Not sure if anyone has brought this up. I loved the City episode, but if McCoy changed history and the Federation and Enterprise didn't exist, then how is it possible for Kirk & crew to be standing on that planet with the Guardian? The moment McCoy jumped through the Guardian, Kirk's crew should have disappeared. Am I missing something?
dlpb - Tue, Apr 14, 2015, 6:15pm (USA Central)
Re: VOY S5: In the Flesh

Whoever wrote this episode was either on drugs or just not very bright. The very idea that Voyager would encounter these aliens from another plane of existence here of all places, and that they would have made an almost perfect reenactment of Starfleet Academy... and... look I'll just stop there. Preposterous doesn't even come CLOSE to covering it. It's REALLY BAD. REALLY SILLY. And it just doesn't work. It's one of the most illogical and ridiculous episodes I have ever seen.
MsV - Tue, Apr 14, 2015, 4:28am (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S1: Babel

@ Yanks He did? When? ... Where?
I am sorry it took so long to get back with you, I think we were talking about Surmak referencing Bashir's notes? When he first sat down at the computer he said something about Bashir had started a base pair...

I enjoyed his acting, not perfect but he did very well. He wasn't boring nor slapstick either. All of us in or nurses group would get together on Mondays and discuss Star Trek. We all enjoyed Avery's acting as Ben Sisko.
MsV - Tue, Apr 14, 2015, 3:52am (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S1: Emissary

I am watching DS9 from the beginning, not skipping over episodes. I have read a lot of the post and I was surprised at some of the post. First of all Sisko had every right to feel anger at Picard because whether intentional or not Picard caused Sisko's wifes death. Through no fault of his own he was a borg. Now no matter how much understanding Sisko had of the events that took place after they got Picard back, he still was hurt and living with all of that pain. He wasn't wrong to feel the way he did, he was hurting. I love the way the wormhole aliens helped him realize he was living in the past and he needed to let it go and move on.

As I've mentioned before, I hated Kira until S3, I liked Bashir until he and Miles were caught by the Jem'hedar. Julian was arrogant and immature, but I liked him anyway.

Odo was always a favorite of mine but, not always likeable. I noticed how he told Sisko that he didn't allow weapons on his promenade, within the next 2 shows he let Kira and Odo know who was boss.

This was an excellent Pilot, it managed to bring all of the major characters to the front.
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