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dlpb - Sat, Jun 27, 2015, 6:38pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S2: Melora

They did mention somewhere early in the episode that anti-grav technology doesn't work on Deep Space 9...something about the Cardassian construction.
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You mean something about lazy writing?
Darknet - Sat, Jun 27, 2015, 1:09pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S7: The Emperor's New Cloak

Was I the only one who like the mirror version of Ezri? She's just so much more interesting as a bad girl/lesbian.
Xylar - Fri, Jun 26, 2015, 7:55pm (USA Central)
Re: VOY S7: Lineage

Hm, this was the perfect episode to showcase Samantha Wildman again. Who else has been through a prefnancy on Voyager? Samantha Wildman. Who knows what it's like to raise a kid on a starship that has no other kids? Samantha Wildman. Who knows how to raise a kid with mixed heritage? Samantha ****ing Wildman.

And yet, no sign of her. Of all the people on Voyager, she is the most fit to give you advice, because she's been through all of it.
Everyone on Voyager is giving you parenting advice, except the one person that actually knows what they're talking about.
Sure, there are probably other parents on the ship, but she comes closest to B'elannas situation. Damn shame, that is.
Yanks - Fri, Jun 26, 2015, 6:17pm (USA Central)
Re: VOY S1: Ex Post Facto

I didn't have a problem with Tuvok using the actions of the dog to cement his case as much as I had a problem with a no-shit "dog" in the DQ. WTF??? Jesus, Tolen even called it a dog! (slaps forehead) I even paused for a second and tried to use some universal translator techobabble crap to justify it :-)

I enjoy Tim Russ' Tuvok. Outstanding character in my book. I also enjoy who-dun-it eps in trek. They are kind of fun.

I also don't think that this method of getting info to the bad guys is a bad one. Seems legit to me. Encrypted transmissions in wartime are cracked" more often than you think. Had they got Paris, it would have worked. I wonder how many other times they did this?

I enjoyed this one. Not a great episode, but not bad. I did not that Tuvok didn't say the standard "my mind to your mind" crap during the meld.

2.5 stars for me.
Yanks - Fri, Jun 26, 2015, 6:00pm (USA Central)
Re: VOY S1: Eye of the Needle

Voyager's best thus far.

I always enjoy this episode.

Great point about Chakotay's comment. Although I think I agree, this was not the writers intent or someone would have brought up Kes and I'm sure Kes would have brought up the EMH.

This is the side of Voyager that frankly they do better than anyother trek series. When they tug on the heartstrings, they do it well. This coupled with Doc's wit makes this a really fun series to watch time and again. Janeway in her quarters holding her picture of Mark was touching.

I initially thought this episode came too soon as well, but after thinking about it I think it was fine. It wasn't so much about how long the Voyager crew had been gone as much as all their loved ones etc. have no clue where they are or even if they are alive. I know that would bother me.

Vaughn Armstrong once again brings a character to life. Nicely done.

Let's see, when he told the Senate about Voyager, he wasn't aware of the time difference... so I'm not sure the Senate ever knew of the 20 year difference?

If I'm Janeway, I'm not sure I agree to grouping all the crew in a Romulan troop transport. The Romulans are paranoid... to many unknowns there.

Voyager's first 4 star episode. Well done.
methane - Fri, Jun 26, 2015, 12:36pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S2: Melora

Yanks said: "We see anti-gravity trays carrying all kinds of stuff around in TOS, but she has to have a wheelchair? The can't create a suit that compensates for her? "Cardassian construction just isn't compatible"??? Really? No gravity plating/technology on DS9? or something mechanical that actually works?"

They did mention somewhere early in the episode that anti-grav technology doesn't work on Deep Space 9...something about the Cardassian construction.
dlpb - Fri, Jun 26, 2015, 8:02am (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S3: The House of Quark

This really is a fun episode. It's not taking itself too seriously and apart from keiko's miserable face, it's very funny all round.

I think Gowron's face as he looks over Quark's figures is the funniest thing I've ever seen on any Star Trek series.
Robert - Fri, Jun 26, 2015, 7:14am (USA Central)
Re: VOY S1: Parallax

@Yanks - I was always a sucker for this one. I like scientist Janeway and I actually think Chakotay was right. Janeway is right too, but that's what was so interesting about the early episodes. Yes Carey got the shaft, but Chakotay destroyed his ship to save Voyager.

Had he not had to do so the two ships would presumably be flying home side by side and B'Elanna would still be a chief engineer there. Chakotay's point that she shouldn't take the entire maquis crew and make them all nobodies is spot on.

I like Chakotay here, I like B'Elanna here, I like Janeway here. It was a good episode. I'd even give it a solid 3. This is everything I liked about S1/S2 Voyager.
Robert - Fri, Jun 26, 2015, 7:05am (USA Central)
Re: TNG S3: Who Watches the Watchers

I appreciate the distinction. It'd be nice some day if the left and the right weren't at war, but I guess there's still a chasm to overcome. Still, it was nice finding some common ground. I hope you walk away with a bit more understanding of what the other side finds scary about the church and I definitely have more understanding of how a person in your shoes feels.
Yanks - Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 9:19pm (USA Central)
Re: VOY S1: The Cloud

I pretty cool episode. I'll agree with Jammer. I like the way each of the characters play off each other.

I guess this was "the kiss" episode :-) (yuk)

The "animal guide" thing is unique... not sure what I think of all that.

Nice getting Doc involved.

"That's your problem, not mine. Doctor out."

:-) By this time in the series I've already decided that Doc is one of my favorite characters. Picardo is outstanding.

I'll go 3 stars.
Yanks - Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 8:48pm (USA Central)
Re: VOY S1: Phage

With so many aliens in trek that are just blah... I've got to give credit where credit is due.

The Vidians are a great concept. Outstanding dilemma. It seems they are very good at surviving too. Over two millennia and still alive. I'm sure we'll see them again.

For all the "Janeway screwed up" folks... I wonder what your argument will be in 'Tuvix'? Your argument also falls flat because they clearly stated "I have already bio-chemically altered the air-breathing organs and grafted them into Motura's body. They are a part of him now." when Janeway demanded Neelix's lungs back. It wasn't going to happen. So what do you expect her to do? ... shoot them? ... torture them? ...force the to rape someone else's body? eeesh...

I thought Cully Fredricksen's portrayal of Dereth was outstanding!

I felt like slapping Kes upside the head when she said Doc couldn't do anything without her knowing every detail and her approval. Who the hell is she?

I don't care for this Kes/Neelix love affair thing. I feel like he's grave-robbing. The kiss didn't set well with me. Kind of made me feel dirty.

"One of these days I'm going to surprise you, Tuvok, but not today" :-) I'm liking the Tuvok/Janeway relationship.

Great trek episode. Not a 4 star one, but a strong 3.5 from me.


Yanks - Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 7:59pm (USA Central)
Re: VOY S1: Time and Again

This has never been a favorite of mine.

I come to the realization that Jennifer isn't the best actress. The scene with her crying was cringe worthy.

I've just about had enough of this time travel stuff for awhile...

So so episode, I'll give it two stars.
Xylar - Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 7:54pm (USA Central)
Re: VOY S7: Shattered

I kinda liked it, to be honest. I thought it was a very unique way to put together a clip show from previous episodes. Sure, the premise of it didn't make sense, but they at least tried a fresh idea and I gotta give em credit for that.
It's better then bunching the main characters together and have them reminisce about the times that were, as most clip shows do.
My favorite scene was the one where Seven barges in through her temporal anomaly, casually shoves a Kazon aside while taking a phaserblast without flinching and manhandling Seska like a ragdoll.

It was a good ride. Not a very sensible one, but fun. I enjoyed it, at least.
Yanks - Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 4:26pm (USA Central)
Re: VOY S1: Parallax

An OK episode. Not a bad story, but man... can't go without a female Chief Engineer long, can we?

Essssh, the opener we get Chuckles as the XO, and episode #2 boom, welcome B'Elanna.

While I didn't want the Maquis thing to drag out, they could have spent a few episodes working things out. Janeway made a GREAT point at the beginning of this episode:

JANEWAY: The Starfleet officers on this ship have worked all their lives to earn their commissions. How am I supposed to ask them to accept a Maquis as their superior officer just because circumstances have forced us together?

Yup, these Maquis should have had to prove themselves more. If I'm one of those Starfleet officers, I'd be real pissed if a criminal got a position over me, especially right off the bat.

The whole Doc shrinking thing was hilarious. I've watched Voyager at least 4 times all the way through and I still cracked up.

I'm not saying B'Elanna isn't more talented, she might be. But LT Carey really got the shaft. What could and probably should have happened, is Carey should have got the job, then HE should have realized that he was in over his head over a few episodes, or half a season or something, then he should have surrendered the position much ot B'Elanna's surprise.

2.5 stars for me.
John Logan - Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 3:12pm (USA Central)
Re: TNG S3: Who Watches the Watchers

Robert@ That is not my view, but the view of the pope and the church.
Robert - Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 2:51pm (USA Central)
Re: TNG S3: Who Watches the Watchers

I think I'm going to have to check out of the conversation if you're comparing pro-choice/abortion doctors to a holocaust....

I am pleased we were able to find common grounds in some places though.
William B - Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 2:49pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S1: Move Along Home

Yeah, the Ben & Jake scene at the episode's beginning is pretty good. I like that Sisko wearing his dress uniform for the first time since Jennifer died suggests that he is starting to "awaken" from a period of grief, as Elliott suggests above. Although, I'm not sure how we're supposed to take the girls talk in this scene. Is the implication that Nog has been giving Jake fashion tips and saying sexist "all girls are stupid" tips, or is the implication that Jake has been "picking up" sex knowledge on the street in a future where fourteen-year-olds have no sex ed? I can understand Keiko being unprepared for how to give multi-cultural sex ed, but Jake was in Federation schools before now. Anyway, one of the implications of the teaser is that Ben wishes Jake would stop growing up, and stay a child so that Sisko can continue to protect him and understand him fully. In a dramatic "be careful what you wish for" twist, Ben's reluctance to see Jake grow up leads him to meet the childlike Wadi, and then be trapped in a childish game. Anyway, the opening scenes of the episode after the Ben & Jake scene are thin but have a certain energy; I like how the Wadi's refusal to be Serious Adults gets on Sisko's nerves because this is presumably his first First Contact not just on DS9 but of his career. (Especially because he never bothered doing much First Contact-ing with the Tosk or the hunters.)

So Sisko's conflicting feelings -- he wants Jake to stay a child and make models and play games; he wants the Wadi to stop acting like children and stop playing games -- in principle could give meaning to he and the senior staff being locked in a game. Maybe there could have been something about "thinking like children" involving a sense of creativity and non-rigid thinking necessary to get out of the puzzles, which could lead to life lessons of keeping one's sense of fun and wonder into adult responsibilities. That type of thing.

Anyway, instead we got this! Lots of people have talked above about how terrible this episode is, and I don't feel the need to reiterate those points. I gotta say though, I like how the closest things we see to a "riddle" are 1) hopscotch and 2) the riddle, Q: "why are a bunch of Wadi not dying of smoke inhalation," where the hint is the Wadi saying "DRINK!!!!!!!" and the answer is A: "They are drinking an anti-smoke inhalation liquid." On Quark's end, literally the only choices he ever makes are between the short way and the long way -- and he insists on being able to make reasonable guesses about what the relative dangers are!

Quark officially has a conscience and cares about not killing the senior staff of the station -- for what it's worth.

That took long for Primmin to be reduced to total joke.

Odo and Quark sure accepted quickly that there were no other options, at all, but to play through the game and to try their best to win; and, further, that the only option was to do so still without demanding any new rules instructions, etc.

What a strange mess. Which -- well, it wouldn't be *okay* if the episode were more interesting, but it would at least be a mixed bag. This is nonsensical and also totally boring, at times simply ludicrous. 0.5 stars -- I think this is the worst episode of DS9's first half, though I might stand corrected.
William B - Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 2:21pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S1: The Passenger

First of all, I like the double meaning in the title. "The Passenger" refers to Vantika both as the passenger Bashir attempts to save, and Vantika as the passenger in Bashir's brain.

So, this is sort of a Bashir introduction story. As Elliott points out, the teaser scene of Bashir bragging about his exceptionality raises the question of whether Bashir is more interested in healing patients or showing off. It's also appropriate that the key thing was that Bashir identified that a person was *not dead* in spite of all obvious external signs pointing to them being dead. He is just that good! So the episode's plot hinges on Bashir's wunderkind ability to see through the obvious failing; he declares Vantika dead, and Vantika isn't. The reason that Bashir could identify that the patient he and Kira talked about in the teaser was not really dead, and fails to do so with Vantika, is kind of neat on a character level: Vantika was *inside Bashir*, and Bashir, as it turns out, is capable of careful observation on the outside but not the inside. Vantika, "man of science" obsessed with his own longevity in a Voldemort type of way, and unable to care about anyone but himself, is an extreme narcissist which one could say is an extreme version of Bashir's obnoxious but mostly harmless egotism. Bsahir's expression of humiliation at the end maybe is the result of Bashir recognizing the limits of his powers -- he worked for hours and hours, and never found the evidence that Vantika was still alive, because he didn't check himself. For what it's worth, Bashir's genuine desire to be a healer also brings about the Vantika possession -- his ignoring Kajada's insistence that he stay away from Vantika is because he's more concerned with the care of his patient than the broader implications of what that patient may do, which is explored in interesting ways in episodes like "Hippocratic Oath"; I do not think this is a bad trait for a doctor to have, but it is an interesting trait.

So that sort of works. Any character work for Bashir is hobbled, though. I can sort of spin a tale akin to the one above that has the events of the episode transpire in a way that is related to Bashir's character, mostly it's hard to expect Bashir to have been able to guess that Vantika would send his glial cells into Bashir's brain and then take him over and then have Bashir/Siddig do a weird, nonsense voice. Bashir's failure to recognize that Vantika isn't dead doesn't actually tell us anything about Bashir, except maybe that he is not infallible, which is possibly a lesson Bashir actually does have to learn. The battle over Bashir's brain is of course won by technobabble alone. I also have got to say that while I'm skeptical about that "shut down Vantika's brain by message along the tractor beam" thing, I find the idea of beaming any of Vantika's glial cells out of Bashir's brain even funnier, especially when Bashir's "I have such a headache!" is accompanied by sitcommish laughter from Sisko and Dax. Ha ha, he has a headache because a bunch of matter just got beamed out of his brain!

To talk about Bashir more generally at this point, I actually do think that the retcon about his having been genetically engineered mostly works, and in particular it changes how I read some of his behaviour. Without the knowledge of his genetic engineering, Bashir's boasting does seem like ordinary bragging of a genius without many social skills; but with it, it may be a kind of overcompensation. I do think that Julian has some real shame about the sense that "Jules" was not good enough as a child, and while probably not their actual reason I can see Julian believing that his parents' breaking the law to make him better is one heck of a rejection of the qualities of Bashir *not* related to his extreme intelligence. Bashir's unusual shame at coming second in his class instead of first sort of plays into the same thing; he brags and brags because he thinks his worth is very much based in his intelligence, which wasn't originally his to begin with; and he needs to tell everyone about his accomplishments to convince himself that he's doing everything he can with his illegally-acquired talents. Just a thought.

I do have to wonder what to make of Quark in these episodes. Quark as petty thief and low-key con man is one thing, but being a middleman to bring mercenaries to steal a freighter containing ultra-rare material is a bit much. And even if we accept that, wouldn't he maybe have *some* inkling that he should tell someone that a psycho killer has taken over the station's doctor's body, even through anonymous message (which I really do think he'd be able to do)? My girlfriend pointed out that maybe Quark didn't have time to do much here -- and it is possible even that Vantika simply knocked him out at this point in the story -- but without further information I don't know. I think Quark's conscience is somewhat of an inconsistently rendered thing, and in these early episodes I'm not sure what the writers thought Quark was supposed to be. (We can add his putting sexual favours as a requirement for dabo girls in the contract to this, from a previous episode.) This does also make Odo and Primmin look particularly bad, that Quark gets away with so much even though he is their prime suspect as a participant.

Anyway, the episode's real strength, such as it is, is the Odo v. Primmin argument; Primmin quickly disappears, and the writers fail to take advantage of Eddington's turn as security chief for any more of this particular conflict. The story loses points by having Primmin call Odo out so publicly on Odo's talking-in-front-of-Quark strategy, and for having Primmin fail to understand Odo's motivation there until it's explained by Sisko; given that Quark got away with everything he did in the episode, it seems that Odo's strategy was bad (or at least ineffective) and so Primmin has some right to criticize him, but it would at least be nice to have Primmin be smart enough to see what Odo is *trying* to do in forging cop-criminal/informant bonds. I guess Starfleet officers don't watch cop shows. Anyway, Odo's bristling at any limits on his power and any threats to his sovereignty is in character, well-acted by Auberjonois, and also hints at certain traits in Odo that are even greater in the Founders -- whose entire foreign policy involves total control so as to avoid any possible "conflict" where they have to work with someone else. Primmin's coming around on Odo, and the two forming a shaky bond, seems fair enough. I like that Primmin figured out the [tech][tech][tech] by using non-traditional reasoning, but couldn't he have told someone else on the security team where he was so that he didn't leave his area completely unsupervised? These are decent enough scenes, though not amazing, and they take up a very small proportion of the episode.

1.5 stars.
W Smith - Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 1:23pm (USA Central)
Re: ENT S3: North Star

I'm shocked so many posters here liked this episode. I thought it was rather shallow in plot and full of cliches. The premise that an advanced alien species would need to travel to far away Earth to find slaves is ridiculous. And if the Earthlings overthrow the Skag overlords, why didn't a Skag SWAT team show up to put down the human uprising? Just makes zero sense. The action scene at the end was a joke with Archer got shot in the shoulder and then taking down the deputy at the horse stalls. Just embarrassingly bad, and such a shame to have such a dud after two solid episodes.
John Logan - Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 1:19pm (USA Central)
Re: TNG S3: Who Watches the Watchers

Robert@ The church also condemns spousal abuse, believing it is oke to control how a man treats his family to protect the innocent. The church banbed infantcide on the grounds you could control people to not harm others. As the woman is the cause of the fetus being inside her, the church doesn`t see it as a justifficationn for murder. It is infantcide. The church like with the T4 program, will not compromise.

Telling a man not to rape is also controlling his body in a sense. The women harms not just her own body, but the fetus, she put inside her body. I am allowed to kill trespassers, but not my own children I take care of inside my home. I also cannot kick them out while it is storming or until I have found another home. The burden is on the parent to find alternative care. So go work on that.

No but they wouldn`t be going even the church sold out to the evils of the world, as Protestantism has shown.

Nazis were excomunicated, anyone else who supports a holocaust will receive the same treatment.
Robert - Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 12:48pm (USA Central)
Re: TNG S3: Who Watches the Watchers

"However I think you understand that if you are really prolife abortion is like murdering a baby. So the liberals have to give way on that. The church generally supports the Republicans indirectly, by default."

I would hope we could agree to disagree on that one. I don't expect them to ever not see it as killing a baby, but I hope there could be some common ground between killing and murder. It's my hope that the church one day says "I cannot control your body, but I'm here to offer you support both financial and otherwise if you make the right choice." I think attempting to control another person's body is immoral and the middle road is the only moral choice.

"Liberal Christianity has also seen better days."

At least in big cities it's dying, albeit slowly. Where I live the # of parishes has more than halved in my lifetime. My cousins and I all have pleasant memories of church and going with our parents. Of the 10 of us, only 3 still attend, and 2 of those are minors. The previous generation all 6 of them went. My kids are not and will not be baptized. I know in the South it's doing well, but young liberals aren't going to church.
John Logan - Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 12:10pm (USA Central)
Re: TNG S3: Who Watches the Watchers

Robert@ The Catholic Church actually supported centrist parties a lot like the Catholic Centre Party in Germany.

True but I think killing babies before they are born, chosing who lives and who dies, is a freedom noone deserves.

The church long did ally itself with centrists, in many countries, especially south America, Poland, the Philipines, Australia, and Germany they still do.

However I think you understand that if you are really prolife abortion is like murdering a baby. So the liberals have to give way on that. The church generally supports the Republicans indirectly, by default.

Also there is a difference between judginng sins and the sinners. The church is not merely a charity orginisation. The Nazis also provided social services to Aryans, the church condemns what it connsiders the murder of the innocent. The church saved many mentally handicapped people from the Nationnal Socialists because they refused to compromise.

The Episcopelians, Lutherans, Presbyterians, and generally all liberal protestants have done what you suggested. Those churches are already practically dead.

As Catholicism is the biggest single denomination this makes sense. Most Protestants are agnostics as well, but there churches have themselves become agnostic and don`t even care whether you show up or not, so noone notices.

Liberal Christianity has also seen better days. Also if the church in Poland had followed your advice, the iron curtain might still be up.
William B - Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 11:44am (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S1: Q-Less

When the episode seems to have a point at all, it seems to be a half-hearted remake of "Encounter at Farpoint," of all things; Q taunts the crew for failing to solve the Big Mystery of what is wrong with the station, and What Is Wrong turns out to be that a space aquatic lifeform is trapped and commodified. However, the title's pun -- "Q-Less," as in "clueless," and "Q-Less" as in Q is absent from the main action of the plot, despite his presence -- suggests the difference. Q mocks the DS9 crew for failing to figure this technobabble out hours ago, and well he should, but the fact that the entire investigation was entirely tech-based, tritium and all, removes any of the humanistic message that "Encounter at Farpoint," however haltingly, tried to present. No wonder Q mocks these guys; they don't show any ability to reason, say, by remembering that Vash came in from the Gamma Quadrant and is an archaeologist and capitalist who might well have picked up some items for sale, and it's not even as if it seems likely to me that the auction in Quark's was a secret. "Unknown Gamma Quadrant item on station" should really be one of the first items on any checklist of "explanation for bizarre happenings."

The episode is sort of a rundown on human(oid) failings -- greed especially, in that it's Quark's and Vash's that endangers the station by their carelessness about investigating what that glowy thing is, which is especially bad for archaeologist Vash -- but also lust, with Quark and Bashir in particular, and pride & wrath in Sisko's physical aggression against Q (really?), all of which get in the way of solving the mystery.

Mostly I find this episode boring and pointless, taking the long way around to make everyone look foolish. Q's presence as commenter on Our Heroes' failings is amusing at times, but the big problem is that it's hard to tell exactly why he is so interested in Vash that he's acting like a stalker, giving potential romantic rivals two-day sedatives or making them disappear entirely and the like. Q going off with Vash as an experiment is one thing, especially since "QPid" made a point of emphasizing that Q feels particularly interested in humanity as a result of his "Deja Q" experiences, but it's hard to imagine anyone keeping his interest for two years to the point where he pulls out one or two of his bags of tricks again and again. We know at least that Q did do other things during this time ("True-Q") so that I can imagine that Q was multitasking, but really.

Boring and pointless -- 1 star.
Robert - Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 10:59am (USA Central)
Re: TNG S3: Who Watches the Watchers

"As for your last question, I think the annulment might have been granted because of lack of maturity when entering the marriage, not being ready for it, and that the new marriage might be less harmfull to the children then one that didn`t work."

It was his third marriage and the previous 2 spanned nearly 40 years. I think he was ready to make those vows the first time.

I also get where you are coming from and I'm sorry for your experience, but I think things like this are pendulum issues. Like... if conservatives and liberals could just be centrists we could mix the good ideas from both sides.

I also appreciate you saying that you have no intrinsic opposition to gay marriage IF you could be certain Catholic churches and Catholic adoption agencies were exempt. I think that if more people were against the separation of church and state in that way that the Church would be less dangerous.

And I understand the sentiment behind things like "I became prolife after learning of the aborting of children with downsyndrome, and girls, and because women wanted to go on vacation." but I feel like that's the argument for a lot of conservative things and I hate it. If you start banning things because of potential for abuse you end up with a country that is not free. Damn near everything can be abused. But conservatives use this to say why affirmative action, welfare, abortion, pot, and a myriad of other things are bad (I'm not actually 100% supportive of all of those things in their current form, but I would not use their potential for abuse as reasons to get rid of them).

To be honest I've never felt the Catholic Church belonged with the conservatives and if they could find a way to ally themselves with liberals instead and focus on the compassionate side of Catholicism instead of the judging sin side (which they shouldn't be doing anyway, judge not lest ye be judged and all of that) that it would strengthen the church and lengthen it's life. At least in America that's a big problem for them. Some joke that Catholics like me who are, for all intents and purposes non practicing, are the second biggest religion in the country....

John Logan - Thu, Jun 25, 2015, 9:10am (USA Central)
Re: TNG S3: Who Watches the Watchers

Robert@ Actually secular education already existed in Roman times. Paul epistles are pastoral and refer to roles in the church, and it means women should not try to discuss the faith within the church. Temple discussion and discussions in church were theological, and sacramental.

You shoulde check the constitutional ban on divorce that existed in Ireland till 1993, or the protests of the church and papacy over the legalisation of divorce in Austria-Hungary, the constitutional ban on divorce in Brazil in 1978, the attempts to ban divorce in Italy trough referendum in the sixties, to opposition to divorce in Spain and Portugal.

To be very honest. We lost.

Similarly Ireland, Argentina, Chile, etc. all used to ban birth control. I think Bolivia, El Salvador, and Colombia still do. The Philipines still has a ban on divorce.

The church mainly opposes gay adoption as like abortion it is seen as hurtful to young children. They believe children need both a father and mother.

The church Always defended marriage as it started out as a religious Union first, and the goverment used to base its views on marriage on the Christian religion of the founding fathers.

The church has Always requested the goverment upholds the Christian ethics the Western world was founded upon.

If they wouldn`t adopt kids I wouldn`t have a big problem with it. Also if it would legalise adoption the church would request their adoption agencies be exempted. Which too often they are not, forcing them to close centuries old adoption agencies and abandon hundreds of children.

I would prefer for divorce to be banned as well, as I have seen what it did to countless children. Most became bullies, or severly depressed. I believe divorce goes against the promises you make, the vows you take.

I think birth control also has done great harm, as it caused people to view their own bodies in a superfisial way, and caused certain children to be accidents. It caused getting children to become a choice, and it suggests my grandparents were breeders. Many of us exist thanks to the times that birth control and abortion were banned. Also considering birth control was made popular by Communists and eugenicists I could favour banning that.

Pope Francis tried to keep birth control illegal in Argentina.

Also one a personal note, one of the reasons I became Catholic is because I have OCD and Tourette and have been bullied for that, relentlessly, including by own liberal teachers, and I soon learned that the liberal anti-discrimination movement only wanted to protect certain groups, while allowing the truewlly handicapped and weak to suffer. If you were gay you were totally save, but I was physically assaulted by own liberal teachers.

I also came to discover liberal doctors and psychiatrists supported the Nazi eugenics program, and that it was the silly Catholic Church that opposed eugenics.

I became prolife after learning of the aborting of children with downsyndrome, and girls, and because women wanted to go on vacation.

Also my parents sometimes treated me as a burden, and sometimes that caused me to wish I hadn`t been born, till I realised it was their choice to get me, and that children are not pets you can love or take responsibility for, only if they suit your demands.

I came to the conclusion that the liberal freedom= happines culture, was a mild version of anarchism. Of allowing 2 wolves and 1 sheep, to vote over what you are going to do. Seeing the silent scream was especially interesting. Learning of partial birth abortion was also horrifying. One person even said he didn`t care if the fetus felt pain.

I was also interested to learn that the church stance against abortion and euthenesia and birth control made them one of the greatest opponents of both Nazism and Communism, and the heroic role of the church during World War II was universally aknowledged till a disinformation campaign from the KGB in the sixties started to influence public opinion.

As for your last question, I think the annulment might have been granted because of lack of maturity when entering the marriage, not being ready for it, and that the new marriage might be less harmfull to the children then one that didn`t work. I hope they had valid reasons for it. Henry VIII showed annulments aren`t granted lightly. But the bishop could have been a hypocrite, yes. I hope he wasn`t. Even the pope can make mistakes when not speaking ex cathedra, although rarely.
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