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Beej
Fri, Jan 20, 2017, 2:44am (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S5: Conundrum

Daniel B says: "2) Why didn't he make himself the captain? Because he hasn't got the foggiest clue how to run the ship. Everyone else retained their skills and technical knowledge, so he had to put himself in a place where he could get away not spouting technobabble about the ship's capabilities or how to do anything, but he could command most of the people who did (and advise anyone he couldn't command). "

He knew how to arm and fire the weapons.

He must know how the computer works too, or his people must, since their magic memory ray worked on it too.

And it's not like he made himself cook. He's second in command of the ship. He's going to have to know as much about starship operations as the captain anyway.
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Vii
Fri, Jan 20, 2017, 1:12am (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S4: The Gift

I've never really understood all the vitriol that Voyager gets and I think it's good entertainment. However I do have to echo some former posters' sentiments that this episode basically seemed to be about Jennifer Lien being let go. I've heard all about the by now infamous story about Garrett being the person who was originally supposed to go, but then People magazine stepped in and so forth. I've never understood why Neelix was never on the chopping block. That character was obnoxious to the point of grating every time he showed up on the screen and he was just a very annoying character in general, mean-spirited and irritating, especially in the earlier seasons, where he was practically unbearable. I'm sure Ethan Phillips is a lovely person but man I hated that character.

Harry Kim on the other hand was an okay character imo and I've also never really gotten why he gets so much flack. I agree that his character didn't show much growth, but that seems to be the writers' and directors' fault, not Wang's or the characters. From what I heard Wang apparently clashed heads with Admiral Berman fairly early on in the series which basically sealed his fate. It's fairly easy to google and he's been very vocal about his lack of character growth. For my part I thought he did a good job with what he was given and he had good comedic timing and great chemistry alongside Paris and Torres. I've been rewatching the series and there are a lot of S1-S2 moments where him and Torres bounce off each other really well, with B'lanna affectionately nicknaming him 'Starfleet' and making fun of the fact that he's so obviously fresh out of the academy and innocent of the world, as it were. Pity they didn't show more small moments like this, but it is what it is.
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Dave
Fri, Jan 20, 2017, 12:08am (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S7: Endgame

Seven: Wow, this is like the highest concentration of wormholes in one place ever...

Later...

Seven: Remember that time I told you there were 6 of these things?
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Dave
Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 11:14pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S7: Renaissance Man

A race that advanced on the edge of the Beta Quadrant (basically adjacent to the Klingon Empire) surely would have made themselves known by Picard's time to the Federation, or at least the afforementioned Klingon Empire.
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Iceman
Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 10:33pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S3: The Best of Both Worlds, Part I

TNG Season 3:

"Evolution"-3
"The Ensigns of Command"-3
"The Survivors"-4
"Who Watches the Watchers"-3.5
"The Bonding"-3
"The Booby Trap"-3
"The Enemy"-3.5
"The Price"-2
"The Vengeance Factor"-2
"The Defector"-4
"The Hunted"-3
"The High Ground"-3
"Déjà Q"-3.5
"A Matter of Perspective"-3
"Yesterday's Enterprise"-4
"The Offpsring"-4
"Sins of the Father"-3.5
"Allegiance"-2
"Captain's Holiday"-2.5
"Tin Man"-3
"Hollow Pursuits"-3
"The Most Toys"-3.5
"Sarek"-3.5
"Ménage à Troi"-1
"Transfigurations"-2.5
"The Best of Both Worlds, Part 1"-4

Average: 3.08

Excellent season.
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Iceman
Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 10:24pm (UTC -6)
Re: ENT S2: Second Season Recap

Almost every season of Voyager and Enterprise above the best of DS9?

:/
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Tara
Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 9:52pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S1: Angel One

Addendum:

In my preferred version (a standard ST outing that just happens to involve a gender-flipped sexist planet as background) I'd love to see a meta conversation between Yar and Crusher as they enjoy the scantily clad male scenery.

Yar: "Isn't it fascinating that even in an advanced society that has done away with money and conflict and which claims to a beautiful vision of the future, , one sex still rules while the other sex is still merely decorative and obedient?"

Crusher (choosing a boytoy from the luscious crowd, taking him by the hand and heading toward the nearest bedroom): "Actually it's always been surprisingly common. So much so that some people don't even question it."
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Rahul
Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 7:29pm (UTC -6)
Re: TOS S1: Miri

Just saw the episode for the 2nd time in the last 3 months or so. I liked it more the 2nd time than the 1st time but it's not a particularly strong episode.
The kids are annoying and I'm not sure why they need to band together under the leadership of the oldest male kid.
I liked the Kirk-Miri-Rand subplot and Kirk reasoning with the kids with Miri's help. Rand has played a high-profile role in the first few episodes of Season 1 - she's a good actress though not particularly useful.
Of course, plenty of questions about what 300-year-old kids would actually be like - maybe the virus prevented them from learning and maturing despite still being in kids bodies? It would have been good to get more insight into the grown-ups who created the virus.
Anyhow, 2.5/4 stars for me -- interesting idea, some good parts but kind of a slow episode with not that much happening.
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Tara
Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 7:16pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S1: Angel One

The "Star Trek" shows - and sci-if shows in general, and TV in general, and nearly all world cultures in general - have had no problem with societies/depictions of societies in which makes make decisions and females simper obediently in the background (and are punished if they do otherwise).

Given the supposed "Star Trek" aim of depicting a just and peaceful future, negated by the pathetic"Star Trek TOS" reality of depicting obedient yeomen in miniskirts and an all-make command staff led by a Kirk who bangs scantily clad aliens, TNG certainly owed its audience a wake-up call about its own gross history of sexism.

This wake-up call was a bit laughable, however, given that TNG itself featured Troi in a miniskirt early on and had plenty of other sexist crap .

However, the utter hatred that this episode gets is funny. Almost no reviewer ever mentions that the men on Angel One live lives just like the TOS yeomen and the females on most sci-di worlds.

If you never had a problem watching Kirk Spock and McCoy lead the Enterprise, why have a problem with Beata and company lead Angel One in exactly the same sex-segregated manner?

That's the crux of my objection. I suppose: the episode would have been much smarter if it had mirrored a typical TOS show , just with the genders reversed. IOW: give us an all-female away mission to a woman-led planet, where males simper and please their wives and wear booty shorts, and Crusher and Yar joke about the local male beauties, and Troi seduces a male alien hottie. No need to show the males rebelling - after all, simpering miniskirted females never rebel.

It is worth mentioning that in the follow up to "Angel One" we are treated to Riker in the Holodeck getting it on with a Holobabe who does nothing but flatter him and listen to his prattle and serve his needs, then flatters the captain as well when he pops in.

Yes, Roddenberry's vision sure is..... Beautiful! Futuristic! Egalitarian!
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NCC-1701-Z
Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 6:21pm (UTC -6)
Re: Star Trek: Discovery

I've said this before, but for the sake of perspective:

I am disappointed by how CBS has been handling this series thus far. They may yet pleasantly surprise us in fall or whenever. But no matter how badly CBS screws up, no matter how much they milk the cow till it's dead, no matter how many Romulan saboteurs wreak havoc behind the scenes, Star Trek will always live on in our hearts and nothing can take that away from us.
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Dave
Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 5:42pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S7: Homestead

Neelix's "if they aren't welcome, then I'm not staying either" threat was extremely weak, since Neelix staying a while was wholly Neelix's idea, not theirs. They were already pretty much handing him his hat.
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Paul Allen
Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 5:35pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: Children of Time

Not a great episode for me. A bit plodding.


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Robert
Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 5:33pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S7: Extreme Measures

There have to be some lines one is not willing to cross. Torture to stop genocide, I'm ok with. Murdering one dickhead ambassador to save your own people, that's ok too. There has to be moral calculus in every action. Genocide though? That's a few steps too far.
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Dave
Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 4:43pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S7: Author, Author

If the Federation is capable of subjecting the holograms to work in the mines, then maybe it isn't the best idea to let them get their hands on the mobile emitter technology when Voyager get home.
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N
Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 4:41pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: The Darkness and the Light

Yeah, I'm done too.
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Jammer
Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 3:40pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: The Darkness and the Light

No one will win this argument. At a certain point, and that point has passed, everyone just digs in and talks past each other. The best solution is to just call it done and move on.
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Peter G.
Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 3:20pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: The Darkness and the Light

@ Jason R,

I'll take up this point in particular:

"To address your last point, you have yet to respond to the fact that his "content and tone" in discussing Kira was more or less the same as it was when discussing Nog."

It's unclear whether there is common ground or not between the dislike of them based on what's been said so far. Let's put aside the comments in this thread for the moment and hypothetically suppose someone said that Kira was an emotionally silly woman and should die for it. We might suspect sexism/misogyny, although this is only one data point. Then suppose that same person announces that a man in the same series is pathetic because he's wimpy or maybe emotionally annoying in the same way. While you might take this to mean that since both male and female characters are being disparaged there is therefore no ground to suppose sexism/misogyny, you could be missing that the common ground between both of them is a patriarchal stereotype of how people in general are supposed to be. But if this were so it not only might the view regarding the female character still be sexist, but actually it would mean that it is sexist and that additionally there is another 'ism' at play at the same time being directed as the male character not fitting the chauvinist expectation. You might then categorize both under the general heading of "male supremacist", of which "sexist/misogynist" would be a subset but not distinct from.

I make this hypothetical so that no one here is dragged into this speculation, but my point is that if a patriarchal stereotype is being applied to a female character it doesn't contradict this to also apply that same patriarchal stereotype to a male character. Part of feminist theory is that both men and women are subjected to these overbearing stereotypes, and even though typically this kind of chauvinistic expectation is expressed as being 'sexist' it does not preclude men from being disparaged on the same ground.

In the context of this discussion I therefore don't see disparaging Nog as being particularly germane to undermining a suspicion that a particular view (or way of expressing it) is sexist/misogynist. I agree with you about civility, and also about the fact that there is data lacking here; and even that part of the issue here is probably style. However I don't know that maintaining civility must necessarily involve enforced silence when something actually objectionable is said. Name calling isn't the best way to address these things, but does that mean the content of the objection needs to be dismissed along with the tone?
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Del_Duio
Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 2:56pm (UTC -6)
Re: Star Trek: Discovery

So first it's supposed to air this month.

Then it gets pushed back to May, but the filming starts in Sept 2016.

But when Sept rolls around, they haven't even cast anybody yet, so it gets pushed back again.

And well, etc etc then it was definitely shooting like what 2 weeks ago and now it's not until a bit later (Suuuuuuure)

And, well.. SAREK? Whyyy? I'd rather see a bunch of brand new people than re-treads at this point with this doomed series. I don't want them to bring back old characters for the sole reason I'd hate to see Mark Lenard's awesome legacy get pooped on.

Omni is right on this: CBS has totally screwed this up. This whole thing should've been so friggin' awesome and handled by people who realize just how special this franchise is (and could be again). You won't get another shot at a 50th anniversary again. Hell, the convention rounds in 2014 made WAY more stops than this year did. How is that even possible?

The last thing I want STD.. (yeah, it's STD because it sounds awful and it lingers on and on in production hell haha).. the last thing I want my awesome Trek to do is friggin' flat out DIE from it. Holy shit, guys. Do they realize how many people would jump at the chance to HANDLE THIS RIGHT?

Sorry, haha oh boy went on a ranter there, but at least we friggin' CARE about this sorta' thing.
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Jason R.
Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 2:04pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: The Darkness and the Light

N Kira and Nog are fictional characters, whereas DLPB is a real person, albeit an anonymous one. There is no question of "civility" towards a character in a TV show so your comparison is specious.

I didn't argue with DLPB because there was nothing to argue about. I don't agree with him but I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince someone that a fictional character I like isn't s "worthless pile of dung"

To address your last point, you have yet to respond to the fact that his "content and tone" in discussing Kira was more or less the same as it was when discussing Nog.

If I walk up to a black man and call him a demon, you might speculate that I'm a racist. If 5 minutes later I walk up to a white man and call him the same thing, the initial speculation becomes increasingly less likely.

I see people post like DLPB all the time re: male characters. It's probably just his style.

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N
Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 1:51pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: The Darkness and the Light

And I agree with Chrome's comment.
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N
Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 1:49pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: The Darkness and the Light

I'd love people to be more civil with each other too, which is why I literately took someone to task for wishing a pregnant character had been murdered and calling Nog "a worthless pile of dung". But apparently my using the word "misogyny" is more uncivil than that, given it's me you're insistently attacking and not DLPB. So it's fine for him to do that, but not for me to make an observation about it - the accusation of the thing is worse than the actual thing? That seems like a really handy way to shut down any discussion of an issue.

"You leaped to the conclusion that he hates Kira because she is a woman" - no, I characterised his comments as misogynistic because of the specific context and framework that Peter describes above. I've repeatedly explained why I chose the words I did in nuance and detail, Peter has also explained eloquently (without wishing to draw him into this), yet you reduce this to "flat out insulting people and name calling" - so again, me characterising a comment as "misogynist" is apparently worse than someone using wishing a female character had been murdered for being overemotional/irrational (sexist tropes).

The emotional/irrational comment on its own wouldn't have made me say anything and isn't grounds enough for me to accuse someone of sexism - the combination of it with the death wish and the overall context of the comment (and the vitriolic tone) is. If someone had said, for instance, "I wish Janeway had stayed assimilated at the end of UMZ Part II" or "I'm glad Tasha died, she was annoying", I wouldn't have made any comment about sexism/misogyny (take your pick) because there's no evidence gender had anything to do with it. As you correctly state, it's obviously perfectly possible to dislike a female character without being sexist. I think T'Pol is a really bad character. I said what I did because of the specific content and tone of DLPB's comment.
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SteveRage
Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 1:35pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S5: Conundrum

Anyone else notice that thanks to this episode, Riker has now slept with Troi, Crusher & Ro..... along with multiple other planetary dignitaries and lower ranking crew members..... and I'm pretty sure that in a few episodes time he sleeps with someone from a culture that doesn't even have a concept of sex or gender :-)
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Yanks
Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 12:53pm (UTC -6)
Re: Star Trek: Discovery

Thanks. My hopes are starting to dim....
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Sean
Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 12:42pm (UTC -6)
Re: ENT S4: These Are the Voyages...

Star Trek for me will always be TOS, TNG, and those six movies with Kirk and crew. I've seen every other incarnation of Trek - and while each had moments worth watching, none of it felt memoable. That might be a bit harsh, but it's how I feel. Sorry Mr. Berman.
This episode would have been better if it had actually been about the Enterprise crew, and not about Riker. For some reason Berman believed this would be the end of all Star Trek - was he wrong...
By the way, did we ever learn who was sending messages from the future?
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Jason R.
Thu, Jan 19, 2017, 12:34pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: The Darkness and the Light

N the fact that she was pregnant is superfluous to this argument.

He flippantly said he wishes a female character he doesn't like would be killed off. Then he made a similar comment about a male character.

Lots of people write nasty comments about fictional characters they hate, against both sexes.

You leaped to the conclusion that he hates Kira because she is a woman, and then leapt passed the conclusion that he's sexist to the conclusion that he is misogynist (hates women categorically) despite having additional evidence that he expresses similar hatred of male characters.

It's not "semantics". You're just flat out insulting people and name calling with no basis in fact.

I want you to see this and understand why I'm criticizing you. I want people to be more civil with one another and part of that is taking responsibility for the words we choose.
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