Comment Stream

Search and bookmark options Close
Search for:
Search by:

Total Found: 48,936 (Showing 51-75)

Next ►◄ PreviousPage 3 of 1,958
Set Bookmark
Yair
Mon, Feb 19, 2018, 3:19am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

Talking about "Klingon provocation" in the context of the Sarcophagus ignores what Michael was up to. Burnham's plan did not merely require firing on the Sarcophagus. The idea was to give the Klingons the "Vulcan Hello" - firing on them first, every time a Starfleet vessel meets a Klingon ship. Given that no "provocation" was mentioned as a requirement for firing first during these would-be encounters, it is obvious Burnham was happy to fire regardless of circumstances.

IMHO, this is the one and only time in series the writers weren't entirely on her side - every sympathetic character she asks is hesitant or opposes the plan outright.
Set Bookmark
SC
Mon, Feb 19, 2018, 3:12am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S1: Firestorm

The best episode so far. I loved it. Okay, the reveal was a bit of a let down and it's essentially just - face your fears - stuff, that we've seen many times before, but it was really entertaining. The characters are excellent and surprisingly Seth is making a decent, likable captain.
Set Bookmark
SC
Mon, Feb 19, 2018, 2:28am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

Can't see me watching season 2. The visuals are great but I still don't care for any of the characters and season 1 was a bit of a mess. I prefer The Orville at this point. The Orville is more in line with old Trek, lighthearted and entertaining with interesting characters and intriguing storylines. Moralistic with idealism.

Discovery is bland and kinda boring in comparison.
Set Bookmark
Chrome
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 10:17pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

I don’t see why people are defending Burnham’s actions in the premiere after she flat out said she was wrong in this episode.

“the writers were making it clear that [shooting first] was an advisable action.”

I believe the writers at least wanted to promote that Sarek’s understanding of Klingon culture is correct. “Violence brought respect, respect brought peace.” This comes full circle in the finale with L’Rell using a massive bomb to get her own people’s respect. If there’s anything that’s true about Klingons in all iterations of Trek it’s that they appreciate violence. I just wish the writing staff tried a bit harder to connect the dots here.
Set Bookmark
Peter G.
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 9:55pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

@ BZ,

"To be fair, Sarek only said it worked for the Vulcans, and explicitly cautioned that the Shenzou's situation may be different."

Technically, yes. But my reading of that scene was that the writers were making it clear that this was an advisable action. It didn't play as just Sarek postulation on her options, but more like the narrator-voice telling her that it was the right move. Or maybe even the Voice of Destiny, which assures that her read on situations is always correct.
Set Bookmark
Rahul
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 9:51pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S1: Home Soil

There's a good story here but wooden guest acting, bad directing and writing undermine the final product. The 1st half made it clear there was a mystery -- what are the terraformers concealing? But it was needlessly slow to develop. The second part when the ship is dealing with a serious threat from a new life form is better.

Cool concept of this kind of inorganic life and I liked how the Enterprise crew methodically went about establishing this conclusion. And damn, that universal translator is good! I don't see the Horta as a suitable comparison to this life form (as it is organic) but I actually think the Companion ("Metamorphosis") is perhaps more similar. "Ugly bags of water" -- appropriate description for humankind in this case!

Thought the dialog between the microbrain and the Enterprise crew seemed reasonable (after getting past the formidable capabilities of the UT). The microbrain thinks humans are arrogant and it is defending itself -- can't ascribe human qualities to it -- though it tells them to get back in touch in a 200-300 years or something -- maybe a touch of arrogance there!

Some of the plot machinations are arbitrary -- as they have to be in this type of story -- like Riker short-circuiting the lights from a nearby panel. Shouldn't the microbrain be able to deal with this type of action if it can basically control the ship?

2.5 stars for "Home Soil" -- some points for creativity here but really hard to tolerate the weak acting of the terraformers. The old head scientist wasn't too bad, but his misdirection at the start of the episode seemed misplaced -- he didn't know what he had on his hands, but he could hardly think it was something of tremendous value that he'd keep it secret. What would he do with it? Fairly typical TNG S1 here -- a decent idea but poorly executed.
Set Bookmark
BZ
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 9:43pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

@Peter G.,
To be fair, Sarek only said it worked for the Vulcans, and explicitly cautioned that the Shenzou's situation may be different.
Set Bookmark
Peter G.
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 8:13pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S1: In the Hands of the Prophets

@ Trent,

I think I understand what Rahul is saying, which is that atheism as an enforced dogma is something we've only seen come out of communist (i.e. totalitarian) countries like the USSR.

That being said, I don't see how that accurate observation is relevant to the issue of whether science promotes atheism. Historically most scientists were not atheists, and even now many aren't, but of course some are as well. I don't see any implication in science as being an alternative to religion, although the point is certainly well taken that many people *feel* that's what science does. But some of the most famous 20th century scientists would beg to differ.
Set Bookmark
Peter G.
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 8:11pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

@ KT,

""why is there a centuries-old Klingon artifact in this area of space? Could it be that the Discovery is actually in Klingon space and might be perceived as the aggressors? "

Except the Klingons apparently never told the Federation it's their space; they never seemed interested in talking. Except to each other about how they will Dominate and Remain Klingon."

That's not a good argument. If there's any possibility of doubt that the borders are well-understood by both parties then the onus is on the Federation (the diplomats) to make sure everything is clear. A first strike against a Klingon ship that is potentially only (in its view) defending its territory should be totally out of the question. Sacrificing a relay station to give the Klingons the benefit of the doubt should be a no-brainer. But that's where Michael comes in: she has a grudge and doesn't trust them, so wants to attack them rather than let what happened to her parents happen again. The writers clearly agree with her, which is very sad. The worst part, though, was Sarek suggesting she do something totally against Federation values (and law), which contravenes what we've been told over and over - that the Federation does not shoot first. That's one of the reasons I've started calling him "Sarek".
Set Bookmark
KT
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 6:23pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

@JP
"why is there a centuries-old Klingon artifact in this area of space? Could it be that the Discovery is actually in Klingon space and might be perceived as the aggressors? "

Except the Klingons apparently never told the Federation it's their space; they never seemed interested in talking. Except to each other about how they will Dominate and Remain Klingon.

"By boarding the Beacon, Burnham was giving the Klingons cause to defend themselves. "

Because exploration and identification (which is all Burnham did) are cause for defence? If there was a chance of diplomacy with them, why did they ignore hails?

"There was no justification for Discovery to fire first."

Burnham's reasoning was not solely based on the events of that day. She also factored in what Sarek had told her and her knowledge of Klingons as a 'warrior race'.
Set Bookmark
JP
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 5:55pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

@KT "Where did you get this impression from? what Burnham initially describes as 'an artifact' was actually a ship covered in coffins." I got this impression by paying attention to the show, and it seems I'm being punished for it now. The artifact is actually the Beacon of Kahless, not the Sarcophagus ship. The beacon is entirely separate from the Sarcophagus ship that decloaks.

Given the available information, both the crew and the audience should be thinking, why is there a centuries-old Klingon artifact in this area of space? Since it emits a scattering field that blocks sensor readings, how long has it been there unnoticed? Could it be that the Discovery is actually in Klingon space and might be perceived as the aggressors?

"As mentioned in the episode there's a nearby Starbase and Andorian Colony."

For a sense of scale, the distance of the border between Romulan and Federation space is 1 light year. At Discovery's location, the nearest Federation starbase is 3 light years away. The nearest Andorian colony is 6 light years away. That leaves plenty of room for a misunderstanding about where the Klingon-Federation borders lie, in the absence of a treaty delineating those borders, and with the Federation's borders actively expanding.

Both the crew and the audience are clued into the possibility that the Discovery could be provoking the Klingons by violating Klingon space, albeit unknowingly. Would the Klingons not be justified in disabling a foreign communications relay in their space? This is why I said Burnham recommended an "unprovoked attack", not comparable to the attack recommended by Spock in "Balance of Terror" (where the Romulans crossed the neutral zone to destroy 3 manned Federation outposts) to which you responded:

"Klingons purposely and wilfully destroyed federation eqiupment in federation space and then lay in wait in order to start a war. When Burnham went to investigate she was attacked without cause."

All the available information suggests that the Beacon was there long before the Federation relay, which means the Federation's claim to this area of space may have been in error. By boarding the Beacon, Burnham was giving the Klingons cause to defend themselves. There was no justification for Discovery to fire first.
Set Bookmark
warp10lizard
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 5:00pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

“Quite simple: The Orville is the new Star Trek. Discovery is one dark grim one person mess.”

Some of us don’t like The Orville and could do without the viral marketing popping into our Trek discussions.
Set Bookmark
Rinzwind
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 4:18pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

Quite simple: The Orville is the new Star Trek. Discovery is one dark grim one person mess.
Set Bookmark
KT
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 2:59pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

@JP
"What establishes the Federation's claim to this uninhabited area of space?"

As mentioned in the episode there's a nearby Starbase and Andorian Colony.

"The Klingons clearly felt that their artifact gave them the claim"

Where did you get this impression from? what Burnham initially describes as 'an artifact' was actually a ship covered in coffins. She and Saru work this out later on in the first episode. I recall that, in a later episode, TKuvma said that he got the ship back up and running after it was laying in ruins from the generation before. So it definitely hasn't been up in space in the same spot for thousands of years.

"You just said that the Klingons "lay in wait in order to start a war""

I said the above because we know they did, from the dialogue that we were privy too which SF were not.

"but now you claim that no one suggested that"

That's not what I claimed. I said that no one assumed that Klingons are trying to start a war based solely on their "Damaging a minor, unmanned sensor relay on the outskirts of Federation space" -which is what you claimed I claimed.

If you can't keep straight what you're talking about from one post to the next I suggest you accept that this is all too much for you and give up.
Set Bookmark
JP
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 2:21pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

@KT Whatever limited interactions there might have been over the last hundred years, there clearly aren't active diplomatic relations between the Federation and the Klingon Empire. Without a treaty that defines a border, who is to say where the Federation border exists to the Klingons, or where the Klingon border exists to the Federation? What establishes the Federation's claim to this uninhabited area of space? A sole communications relay? The Klingons clearly felt that their artifact gave them the claim--and according to Burnham, the Klingon artifact is "centuries old." This suggests that the Federation may have inadvertently encroached upon Klingon space. The fact that the Federation's borders are expanding makes this an even more likely possibility.

You just said that the Klingons "lay in wait in order to start a war" but now you claim that no one suggested that. Like the writers of Discovery, you seem to have trouble maintaining continuity from one idea to the next.
Set Bookmark
Rahul
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 1:37pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S1: In the Hands of the Prophets

@ Trent,

I should clarify that atheism is more than just a communist notion as it arises in many ways but if you really understand communism you’ll know atheism is something they advocate and promote.

Set Bookmark
Trent
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 12:28pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S1: In the Hands of the Prophets

Rahul said: "Believe me, I understand what atheism is (it is a communist notion). "

Atheism is not a "communist notion". This sounds like something a 1950s era Mccarthyite would say.
Set Bookmark
KT
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 12:20pm (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

@JP
"And since no one has seen a Klingon in a hundred years, why would you assume the Klingons even recognized this area as Federation space? "

This sentence is riddled with so many wrongs I don't know where to start. Georgou says 'ALMOST no one has seen a Klingon in hundred yrs'. The truth is that whilst Starfleet have not been to Kronos for about 100yrs, there have been attacks by Klingons on Federation outposts and ship to ship skirmishes throughout the last 100yrs e.g. the attack which killed Burnham's parents and the 'fleeting run-ins' mentioned by the Admiral in the 1st episode.

In ENT the Tellerite in BOUNTY clearly speaks of 'Klingon space', which if you cross they will take your ship. TKurma, at the very start of DSC is whining about how the Federation is coiling around their space. All this indicates that as more and more worlds joined the Federation their space was starting to surround Klingon space.

"Damaging a minor, unmanned sensor relay on the outskirts of Federation space does not mean the Klingons are looking to start a war."

No-one said it did. But in the context of the aforementioned history, destroying SF equipment at the edge of UFP space, taking a lunge at a SF commander, decloaking in a face-off position nearby and then ignoring hails isn't exactly non-threatening behaviour. Burnham can't understand why Klingons have not attacked but appear to be calling for backup. Sarek deduces that a new leader/unify may be behind these actions, and that he maybe trying to start a war. If the boot fits.
Set Bookmark
Rahul
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 12:11pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S1: In the Hands of the Prophets

@ Peter G.,

Believe me, I understand what atheism is (it is a communist notion). Like I said "Science's purpose is not outwardly to be atheist" but by trying to provide a logical explanation for everything, people can tend to believe that almost everything can/should be explained by science and therefore, involuntarily in some cases, people become less willing to believe in the divine. So bottom line, whether science wants to or not, it provides an alternative framework to faith. This becomes clearer if the topic of discussion is the universe's creation and the appearance of life on Earth.

I'm not suggesting that Keiko is atheist and intends to ram her beliefs down the throats of the Bajoran kids -- we don't have a large enough sample size of her teaching (thank goodness).

And how the Prophets operate is hard to assess, being metaphysical and just doing things that are outside of the Trek paradigm (things that divine beings would presumably do). I've been critical of their role in the series as I see Trek as more of a science-based paradigm but it is commendable that faith is juxtaposed prominently in DS9. It just takes some getting used to.
Set Bookmark
easyeight
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 11:00am (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S4: Future Imperfect

i agree with many of the plot holes, but my first reaction was, why didn't the alien just contact the Enterprise and have itself beamed up. If it was lonely, the Enterprise would have provided all the stimulation and companionship the alien would ever need. Why would the alien, obviously very sophisticated and intelligent, be satisfied with a life with only Riker?
Set Bookmark
Peter G.
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 10:38am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S1: In the Hands of the Prophets

@ Rahul,

"Science's purpose is not outwardly to be atheist but it tries to explain every phenomena with laws, formulas, theorems etc. What science can't explain is chalked up as something to perhaps be explained when future developments are made or just plain superstition."

To clarify, atheism means a definitive statement that there is no God, and this is not remotely in the purview of science. Its business is to explain the mechanics of how things operate in the physical world, not to even address - one way or the other - metaphysical issues. Science simply avoids the issue of God and deals with other things, and therefore by definition cannot be atheistic. People are now pretending that science has always been at odds with religion, which is an anti-historical feel-good notion to support modern anti-religious views. The problem now is that people with political agendas want to co-opt anything and everything in order to justify their position, but the beauty of science is that at its heart it is not for or against anything. It is just a search for truth.

I'm not so sure that Bareil would have tried pulling students out of a Federation school, but perhaps it depends on how Keiko approached her studies. We only got a small sample, where she called the Prophets "wormhole aliens", which was perhaps edgy but not really anti-religion. I hesitate to accept that her class would have turned any children against their own religion. But it that was her intent (which I can't be sure of) then I would agree with pulling kids out of a class where the teacher has an agenda - especially one she can't support with facts. One of the weird things about the show is that the wormhole aliens are a stone-cold reality, and I'd say one of the weaknesses of the series is that Starfleet seemed to be totally uninterested in them, when I would have thought that they'd be the most totally cool First Contact in a long time - probably since meeting the Q.
Set Bookmark
Rahul
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 10:17am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S1: In the Hands of the Prophets

@ Peter G.,

Science's purpose is not outwardly to be atheist but it tries to explain every phenomena with laws, formulas, theorems etc. What science can't explain is chalked up as something to perhaps be explained when future developments are made or just plain superstition. So science takes a very different path from faith / belief in the divine and that's why i think it is fundamentally atheist.

As for Winn, as a religious extremists, she feels Keiko's wormhole teachings are blasphemous -- and she's not wrong if it makes Bajoran kids not believe in the Prophets. Of course, she's a villain and has her political motivations but she is a firm believer in the Prophets perhaps first and foremost over her political motivations (at this stage of DS9).

What's wrong about Winn is what she does about her political motivations fuelled by her strong faith (criminal activities). I could see Bareil also opposing Keiko's wormhole teachings, but he'd express his disagreement differently.

Keiko's teachings aren't wrong either but the wormhole turns out to be one of those sensitive subjects to Bajorans. Think about why our school system doesn't teach about Jesus Christ when there could be Muslim kids in the class. Schools teach science while faith/spirituality is taught elsewhere.

I do agree with you that the series makes efforts to show people who believe in science primarily and those that believe in faith primarily can co-exist and that's definitely a Trekkian message -- which is great. To preach mutual respect etc. is what it's all about.
Set Bookmark
JP
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 10:14am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

@KT "Klingons purposely and wilfully destroyed federation eqiupment in federation space and then lay in wait in order to start a war."

Damaging a minor, unmanned sensor relay on the outskirts of Federation space does not mean the Klingons are looking to start a war. And since no one has seen a Klingon in a hundred years, why would you assume the Klingons even recognized this area as Federation space? This situation is no way comparable to the Romulans' crossing the neutral zone--which defines the border between Romulan and Federation space--and destroying 3 outposts full of Starfleet personnel.
Set Bookmark
KT
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 9:18am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

"Have the last word, because I’m not inclined to continue to engage you after you reduced my entire post to one sentence."

Your post was rambling on about real life and B5 to try and justify your claim that DSC breaks STAR TREK canon with regards to house of TKuvma's religious type behaviour, and klingon/starfleet interactions. I just cut out the irrelevant stuff...

On another note, I never finished watching B5. I couldn't get past that BORING episode where the Centuri Ambassdor has a love affair.
Set Bookmark
KT
Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 8:51am (UTC -6)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

@Tim
"I don't feel that the Klingons were ever portrayed as the bloodthirsty animals that Discovery made them out to be."

In the TOS movies the only reason a humbled Klingon government reached out in peace to the UFP was due to their having brought Kronos to the brink of destruction by over-mining Praxis.

There was also Kruge and the Duras sisters trying to get a hold of WMDs.

In TNG eps Birthright Wolf teaches Klingons living in a secret Romulan colony about how exhilarating  hunting is.

And you don't think Klingons are bloodthirsty?

Maybe you're suffering from the same romanticism of Klingons that Curzon and Jadzia had.
Next ►◄ PreviousPage 3 of 1,958
▲Top of Page | Menu | Copyright © 1994-2018 Jamahl Epsicokhan. All rights reserved. Unauthorized duplication or distribution of any content is prohibited. This site is an independent publication and is not affiliated with or authorized by any entity or company referenced herein. See site policies.