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Dr Lazarus
Tue, Apr 24, 2018, 12:47am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: First Contact

This is my favorite Star Trek. It even surpassed the one with the whales. I even learned some trivia, that the crew actually pees, although it is never discussed. But don't say leak though.

It is hard to stay in the movie with so many plot holes though. Why is Cochrane wasting so much time in building a Warp ship when the world is in the middle of WWIII? Is that going to destroy the Nazi's, or whoever the bad faction is in this war? And Cochrane seems to be totally clueless about being in Space. I get the impression he has never been in orbit before. I do know that rocket scientist don't typically get to ride the rockets they design and build, but this seems to be a bit far fetched. Technology is the mother of invention. So the only reason Warp Drive would ever be invented is that space exploration is very limited if it takes hundreds of years to reach the next galaxy or solar system. I never got the impression that Earth spacecraft has ever even gone to space. "Is that Earth"???????? That would be believable if the Enterprise had gone back to 1955 and hooked up with Marty and old Doc Brown in Back to The Future.

And how was it possible to initiate Auto Destruct, if Data locked out the main computer??? Wasn't that the purpose in doing that, so the enemy couldn't take control of ship systems like blowing up the ship or changing the food replicator recipes??? The Borg couldn't even get control of the Photon torpedo's or its tracking system, but destroying the ship was left wide open.

And contacting only planets that have achieved warp, always seemed odd to me. I can see that a planet becomes more sophisticated once they have built a few warp ships and know how to get to Risa to get some action. But the trailer park people in Montana don't seem any smarter an hour after the Vulcans detected a warp signature. They seemed clueless what a rocket ship even was, let alone one that was to be the first ever ship capable of travel at warp speed. And how did the Phoenix get back to Earth so quickly without using warp speed to get back? With the chemical rocket they used to get in orbit, the tiny blue marble that was Earth had to been a few days away. I don't even think they even had impulse power yet. That should had been invented well before warp technology, and made it easier to get in space instead of using an old nuclear rocket to get into space. And how did they get back on the ground? Did it land like a SpaceX 3rd stage booster? Or did they land via parachute in the ocean? There aren't any nearby oceans to Montana.

I won't even get into how the Borg Queen was able to turn on Data's emotion chip, but unable to get the encryption code from his positronic brain. And why Data was unable to turn it back off and add an encryption code to his brain just like he claimed he did with the encryption code to the main computer. And in other episodes, Data could easily choke out Borg's, but this time they easily beat him down. Not sure why he couldn't shut down the subroutine that allowed him to feel pleasure and pain on his synthetic flesh.

It was cool seeing how large a Galaxy Class Star ship really is during the space walk to rid of some Borg who can seem to survive just fine in the vacuum and cold of space, despite having organic bodies with cybernetic implants.

I do try to love this movie despite having my mind wondering why did they do this, or didn't do that.

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Tue, Apr 24, 2018, 12:39am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S6: Spirit Folk

Another episode to skip, after seeing about 10 minutes of it. My basic gripe about it is, that (apart from the irritating folksy Eye-rish tweeness), it and other holodeck episodes are an escape from the scientifictional genre of the story. I watch ST, and therefore, Voyager, because I enjoy science fiction; I don’t want to be fobbed off with something a zillion miles removed from science fiction, or, at most, only very tenuously connected to it. So episodes largely about WW2, or Ireland, or Renaissance Italy, or 1930s Chicago, feel like cheating - they feel like stories that count as science fiction only because they are parts of an episode in a scientifictional series.

The holodeck is in effect being used as an excuse for Voyager (and not just Voyager) to take a little holiday from being a scientifictional series. ST should not have to do this - it suggests a failure of imagination.
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Tue, Apr 24, 2018, 12:08am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S7: Renaissance Man

Round Two of commentary. The stakes were too high for this to be a comedy and too low to be taken seriously. The Doctor should have been able to use his Emergency Command knowledge to know that Janeway was serious about not giving them the warp core, and been able to come up with a creative way to communicate that wasn’t a stupid song at the end. It was fun to see him switching bodies and I loved the room of doctors on the holodeck, but his actions were too extreme for the situation. Shoving people into the morgue? Why didn’t he just incapacitate the entire crew with a modification to environmental controls then tell them an alien invaded the ship? His talk about being happy to be a hologram had no real bearing on the episode, aside maybe as misderection to make us think he was taking over the crew willingly. Non of his usual blundering was there. It was kind of ruthlessly efficient, and now that I think about it, kind of scary. The doctor is a kind of super AI and episodes like this show why we maybe shouldn’t create sentient life in this manner.

This episode was better when O’Brien was being forced to sabotage the ship when the Pagh Wraiths took over Keiko’s body.
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Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 11:50pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S7: Renaissance Man

The worst thing Janeway ever did for the Doctor was never punish him. He’s done some horrible, treasonous things in the name of ego and incompetency, and she just laughs and pats him on the back after. He never had to learn that the reason he couldn’t do certain things wasn’t because he was a hologram, but rather that not all people get to be all things all the time. He never got to learn about consequences for his actions, or feel any punishment other than what he inflicted on himself. Maddening. But good to hear he kept the same diary about her terriblecommand decisions as the rest of us
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Dr Lazarus
Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 11:30pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Nemesis

The thing that always bugged me about Star Trek is the weapons and defensive shields. Yes they are no t supposed to be the Military, and the ship is on an exploration mission, but for all the baddies they run into each week over the past 30 years, you'd think they would invest in better armament. Over heated phasers, limited photon topedo's, and shields that drop to nothing after 3-4 good hits.

The Scimitar, was basically bulletproof, but it could had used something better than 5 mph bumpers.

Picard needed to have General Akbar on his bridge staff. He at least could let the captain know "It's a Trap"! Troi seems to be useless in this aspect. Don't put together strange androids, then allow it the run of the ship. That's insane!! And Picard knows Shinzon is dirty, yet the Enterprise just hangs around while waiting for him to make his move, like kidnap Picard. Once they figure out B4 was trojan horse, they conveniently have data to impersonate him just in case Picard gets captured. Too bad Shinzon didn't give B4 a Blue Gill so he could be picked out of an android line up. Isn't that how parents tell which twin is which???

The only good thing about androids is that if you lose one you can just upload the old backup software, and you have the same old android back. It will even sing the same old tunes.

At the end of every episode, Picard or any other Enterprise captain will put his life on the line to save the ship and crew. And as usual, some random red shirt or replaceable android will pull him out of the fire at the last second. I never fret that we will lose the captain at the end of the movie or episode. This movie was no different. Picard had about two seconds to spare at the end of Insurrection. The worse that happens is a slightly banged up Enterprise. Although I doubt Picard will get his security deposit back with the dented grill after this mission.
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Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 10:53pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S3: Future's End, Part II

I really liked how Begley was obliterated with the torpedo. It was kind of funny how he played it "uh oh", but I was also relieved that the torpedo exploding the ship so close to the temporal vortex thing didn't create an explosion of technobabble.

Also, earlier, it was refreshing when the shuttle exploded Begley's lieutenant in the big rig. Something about the setup just seemed like there would be some overwrought naval gazing about killing the dude, but not this time.

Should Begley have been smart enough to raise the shields or whatever on the time machine? Maybe, but intelligence isn't experience (as Spock would say). And also, Begley had had a pretty long run of outwitting Voyager. Eventually he'd start to get cocky or goof or whatever.
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Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 8:00pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?


You’re still not going into specifics for DSC. Who is a token on this show?

Re: Sisko

To be fair, Sisko was played fairly colorblind for the first few seasons at least. The African heritage stuff was brought up years into the show. Also, the scene you’re referencing in “Badda Bing, Badda Bang” (Season 7) was a pretty rushed afterthought in a light-hearted episode mainly about a casino heist. At least reference a good episode of DS9 like “Far Beyond the Stars” if you’re trying to point to historic injustice portrayed well in Trek.
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Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 7:27pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

I don't think anybody really cares which Trek show had more diversity per se. Rather, the initial point was about how diversity is manifested in the show. @Wolfstar's initial point still stands in that DS9's diversity never felt tokenistic or ancillary; each crew member felt like an integral part of the show. The diversity wasn't just there to please certain fans either and check off boxes. The writers made sure to explore that diversity and what it meant for the characters. For example, the writers could easily have made Sisko a "color-blind" black man, somebody who avoided any mention of his race or ethnicity (as were most black characters at the time). Instead, the show deliberately chose to explore Sisko's African American heritage, what it meant to him, and why it even made him uncomfortable with certain aspects of American history (like the 1950s casino holodeck program).

That's what I think the original post was about. Discovery has diversity, but it feels skin deep at this point. It'd be great if the show eventually managed to really explore what those differences meant to people. Diversity could be a theme of the show instead of just a box to check off.
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Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 6:30pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

@Peter G.

I don’t think it’s a pure budgetary issue; TNG had a bit of money to play with and they only made two cast regulars (Worf and Troi) alien, which is the same as DSC (Saru and Tyler). If I had to guess based on how the show is written so far, they’re trying to keep DSC more accessible to new fans by keeping the human ratio high.

Also, DS9 and VOY had the benefit of being able to ride the coattails of Star Trek lore from TNG. Concepts like Ferengi ensigns, Maquis rebels, and Bajoran refugees were already teased to the TNG audience before they became the norm on later shows.
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Peter G.
Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 5:52pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

@ Chrome,

"But this show takes place pre-TOS on a standard starship, so you wouldn't expect more *alien* diversity than the TOS era, let alone things like Klingon officers (though DSC did have one in a sense) or Ferengi ensigns of the DS9 era."

TOS had a lack of alien diversity only for budgetary reasons. TAS had plenty of alien beings serving on the Enterprise and on the bridge, as they were able to take that opportunity to portray what they would have liked to do with unlimited budget. In our day and age there isn't really a reason to skimp on non-humans in a show like Discovery, for instance. Even Babylon 5, a show contemporary with DS9, also had lots of alien species on board.
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Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 5:45pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: Insurrection

For me, the unforgivable sin of Insurrection was its failure to be internally consistent with the rest of the ST universe, i.e. the events of DS9.

The movie was released during the final season of DS9. At that time, in-universe, the Federation was fighting for its very survival against the Dominion. You'd think that all other projects and missions would have been on hold at that time. It simply made no in-universe sense that the Federation's flagship and one of its most powerful warships, the Sovereign-Class Enterprise-E, would be doing anything but playing an important part in the Dominion war.

The TNG Novel "Tunnel Through The Stars" tells the kind of story that the 3rd TNG movie should have told: an epic, grand-scale adventure. I can't be the only fan who wanted to see the TNG crew (and Data in particularly) fight the Jem'Hadar.

Not making this into a TNG Dominion War movie also made no real world sense. The Star Trek franchise as a whole would have benefited from the synergy of Star Trek TV and Star Trek movies cross-promoting and being consistent with each other. Oh, and getting Worf into the story would have been natural and effortless.

I cannot comprehend how Berman and Paramount could not see that this was the right thing to do.
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Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 4:26pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S1: Cathexis

I liked it. Though, this comes with me being familiar with Voyager, disappointed back when it first aired, so basically graded on a curve.

I don't recall seeing the balding young officer before, so for a while I assumed he was the villain.

I thought if a Conundrum type plot based on that, like what if in an episode the regular crew were gradually replaced by different actors. Perhaps with a bit of Remember Me as well, with one character being the only one noticing anything.
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Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 4:23pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Change of Heart

For the first time in a long while i can agree with the review. A long, boring walk in the forest, some nice parts and a strong ending. 2 or 2.5 stars seems right.
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Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 3:24pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

Yes, there's no debating alien diversity on DS9 is the highest. By the very location of the show (a distant Bajoran outpost bordering Cardassia near a wormhole to the GQ), it's almost guaranteed that lots of different and interesting characters would stop by.

But this show takes place pre-TOS on a standard starship, so you wouldn't expect more *alien* diversity than the TOS era, let alone things like Klingon officers (though DSC did have one in a sense) or Ferengi ensigns of the DS9 era.
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Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 2:57pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: The Sound of Her Voice

I just want to echo the first comment on this thread by R.D. Given how I don't even remember when I first saw this episode nor what I thought of the twist at the time I can't really discuss its 'surprise' element, but from this perspective where I knew what was coming I can say that I truly believe that had the twist been handled the way R.D. proposed it in his/her comment, it would've turned this episode from average at best to something genuinely special.

I get that they were using the stranded captain as a device for our protagonists to verbalize their feelings for the audience and to do some introspection, but unfortunately the dialogues were so pedestrian that I didn't give them a second thought after the credits.

The twist raised up some new elements that were never adressed by the episode, such as how did no one realize from the conversations alone that they didn't share the same time period, but Trek rarely addresses such "minor" plot issues anyway. What makes it so apparent here is that this was by no means a bad episode, but something I find to be even worse - an average hour of wasted potential that with just some really minor tweaks could've worked way better.
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Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 2:24pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

In addition to racial/ethnic diversity, DS9 also had significantly more cultural and religious diversity. Kira, Odo, Worf, Quark, and Bashir all had significantly different worldview and religious beliefs. Their cultures informed who they were, how the behaved, and why they did what they did. Many of the episodes that focused on them explored their belief systems and how the clashed with the Federation's.

By contrast, most of the cast on Voyager had pretty standard human/Federation values. The show did occasionally touch upon Torres' Klingon heritage (like Barge of the Dead), but not that often. I don't recall Tuvok's Vulcan heritage being a major point in the show. Even Neelix and Kes, from the Delta Quadrant, adjusted to the ship without any major culture shock. Somebody watching a random episode of Voyager could be forgiven for believing that the crew all came from the same place and shared the same values.
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Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 1:47pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: What's Past Is Prologue

The characterisation in Discovery is great. It is though a pity that we haven't learnt to know some of the in-between charters like Detmer and Airam better. I hope it will be. Saru is the best alien characterisation so far. Phlox was interesting and well acted, Weyoun was also interesting. Saru though is so complex, he has a lot of strange faults but mostly when it gets important he is is extremely clear and well spoken. The way both fill in his role as second as jumping in as captain when needed is fascinating.

I also like the female roles like Dettmers. Torres in Voyager was a female and strong member of the crew. Dettmer comes over as i a strong crew member who is female.
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Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 1:41pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S5: Nothing Human

You guys. Honestly. If a hologram of Josef Mengele appeared and tried to operate on you, and it turned out he picked up his technique by operating on a bunch of Jews, AND a person you worked with' s entire family was one of his victims during the holocaust, which happened 5 years ago, you wouldn't let him touch you either!

Honestly, I'm getting annoyed with all of you shortsighted nerds. I can't believe you don't understand this. Hologram or not, the image of this guy must send shivers down their spine. Get some fucking perspective
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Peter Swinkels
Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 12:46pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: Silicon Avatar

Found a website were a few interesting points are made, for example:
-The entity shouldn't be sentenced to death without a trial.
-The entiy could be studied.

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Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 12:42pm (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

@Peter G.

Beltran's hispanic (Mexican), so I'm pretty sure the cast's actual racial diversity is about even. And gender diversity definitely goes to Voyager.

DS9 did have some tokenist aspects like Ben and Jake's token matching black girlfriends which have led to some long discussions in comments here, too.

I don't know, I'm not going to say some casting committee didn't come together and agree who will be represented on Trek for this show (surely Trek's big enough there was a committee who worked this out for all the shows). Still, I can't really get behind the idea of tokenism for this show unless people can point to specific instances where the only standout aspect of a character was his/her diversity. With one season, they've certainly tried to give all the characters pretty well-rounded aspects. I mean, all things considered, is this really DSC's weak link?
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Peter Swinkels
Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 12:35pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: Silicon Avatar

While I can understand how many people feel that the Crystalline Entity should be destroyed I can understand Captain Picard's wish to try to communicate with it first. I would assume he would destroy it if it couldn't be reasoned with though I have to admit, what would it consume if an understanding were reached? Ecosystems with non-sentient live I would assume, or perhaps a technical means of providing it with energy could be created. I don't know. While I would most likely rather see something trying to eat me killed rather than being eaten, let's not forget that the human race consumes a large amount of living matter to provide for its needs. Yes, we don't destroy entire planetary ecosystems, but I suspect that from the entity's perspective an entire planet is more like a tiny bit of a much larger ecosystem seeing as it how can easily travel from one to the other. And yes, you could say we don't destroy sentient life. That is at least not sentient as we perceive sentience/from our perspective. Did the entity even see humans as more than simple animals (or perhaps plant like even) (such as the ones we happily slaughter for our daily meat) before the Enterprise tried to communicate with it?

I can sort of understand what the old lady did considering the fact she lost her son, but to me the entity shouldn't have been destroyed outright like that. That could have been done after trying to reach an understanding and provide with another means of getting its energy. (Non-sentient life/technical means.)

Enough rambling.
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Peter Swinkels
Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 12:18pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: Disaster

Why on earth is the control to repressurize the cargo bay not right next to the one that depressurizes it? Are there no oxygen masks there? Aren't people being a bit harsh towards Deanna? I can't judge here counseling skills, but I would think anyone not trained in the technical aspects of a Star Ship or command would be of much use in the position she got forced in. No whether the way the story placed in here in that position is contrived or not is a different question. Oh well, the episode has a few questionable bits but isn't too bad.
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Peter G.
Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 11:33am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

I agree with wolfstar.


"How is DS9 any more diverse than say Voyager?"

If we're going to create a diversity checklist (which I sort of loath the idea of doing) then this assessment shouldn't come as any surprise. Here's the list for you:


Sisko - black human man
Bashir - Middle-Eastern human man
O'Brien -White human man albeit Irish
Dax - Trill (played by white female)
Kira - Bajoran (played by white female)
Worf - Klingon (played by black man)
Quark - Ferengi (played by white man)
Odo - Changeling (played by white man)
Jake - Black human male

So all-in-all, only one white human male, as wolfstar pointed out, who is Irish, and all other white American actors in the main cast played non-humans.


Janeway - White female human
Chakotay - White male human (albeit from different culture)
Tuvok - Vulcan (played by black man)
Torres - Klingon/human (played by black woman)
Kim - Asian human male
Paris - White human male
Doc - White 'human' male
Kes - Ocampan (played by white female)
Seven - White human female (from alternate 'culture')

So on the male/female scale I think VOY wins 4-2 on having more females in the main cast, although if you count Seven/Kes as a total of one then it's a 4-3 victory. The Captain being one of those is also noteworthy.

On the white/non-white tally for actors, specifically, DS9 wins by one, unless you don't count Jake, in which case it's a tie. And as for Janeway, the fact of the Commander being one of them on DS9 probably tilts it to DS9.

For human/non-human characters DS9 wins 5-4, and that's giving Kes a full point and counting Doc as non-human, even though visually and for all intents and purposes he's a white human male. So arguably it could have been 5-2.5, but let's say 5-4 anyhow.

It's sort of close so far, with DS9 slightly winning. And now the final category: white American actors (of either sex). DS9: 4, Voyager: 6. And in DS9 two of them, Odo and Quark, and so unrecognizably 'white' as characters that it's really a write-off. And this is the category that's the most telling; in fact, we've discussed it in other threads before. Voyager is overpopulated with white American actors compared to DS9.

Personally I don't care that much either way to argue about which series is 'more diverse' since overall Trek has always been good about having a mix of peoples on the shows, but if we're going to get finicky about who's got the most check-boxes I feel like DS9 was ahead of its successors. And I also agree with wolfstar that it did it in such a way as to not be ostentatious about it.

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Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 10:46am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?

How is DS9 any more diverse than say Voyager?
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Mon, Apr 23, 2018, 10:40am (UTC -5)
Re: DSC S1: Will You Take My Hand?


"DS9's the most diverse Trek series but it never once felt tokenistic because all of the characters and performances were so rich - they weren't there to fulfill quotas, they were complex, engaging, relatable people who had great storylines and wonderful interactions with each other."

Yeah, man! Well said!
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