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Diamond Dave
Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 1:59pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S4: Revulsion

I haven't said this much since the early series of TNG, but this was an excellent premise that suffered from fairly poor delivery. The concept of a disturbed hologram, and the Doctor's reaction to that, could have been really interesting. But instead we got a low budget slasher with some scenery chewing to boot.

The Seven/Harry story on the other hand was light but well-handled. There is a very dry wit developing here that is welcome - and her frankness in the face of Harry's bumbling made for a hilariously uncomfortable scene.

Overall though - "This could get tedious" indeed. 2 stars.
JWH
Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 1:26pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S6: Chain of Command, Part I

This two-parter really makes me wish that TNG had embraced arc-based storytelling. In today's science-fiction series, Picard's torture and Jellico's command would span at least half a season (and they woudld have found a less-contrived way to get Picard in Gul Madred's clutches. Maybe ambush him while he's on vacation?)

It would have been fun, I think, to watch Jellico clash with Riker and the rest of the crew. Moreover, I think it would have been REALLY interesting to see if Data flourished or foundered as First Officer under the demanding Captain Jellico. Among other things, I wish TNG had featured more episodes where we could see Data commanding the Enterprise.
JC
Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 1:16pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S2: Armageddon Game

Plot summary: DS9's inept crew tried to dispose of biological weapons without launching them into the sun or just dematerializing them with a transporter. Contrived hijinx ensue.
Robert
Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 1:09pm (UTC -6)
Re: New Trek Series Coming in 2017

Wait? He wrote SPIRIT FOLK?

Ok, he's dead to me.
Luke
Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 12:56pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S1: The Forsaken

Damn it, I keep forgetting to add my counters.

WTF HAIR - 4 (+2)
Luke
Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 12:52pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S1: The Forsaken

Lwaxana Troi - simultaneously the worst and best parts of "The Forsaken".

The episode starts out with her straight-up physically assaulting Quark for a crime he didn't commit. Just to be clear here - of the three characters in that scene (Troi, Quark and Odo) the only one actually committing a crime is Troi. When it turns out that Quark is actually totally innocent, does Odo arrest Troi? No, of course not. Does he reprimand her? No, of course not. Does he even give her a slap on the wrist or a disapproving glance?! No, of course not! She doesn't even apologize to Quark! Jesus! But, then, I guess the writers want us to hate Quark so.... fuck it, I suppose? Yeah, just openly harm those you don't like - wonderful message there! Quark is easily the best character thus far and yet the writers seem determined to treat him like shit.

Thankfully, Troi is then allowed to take part in the only redeeming feature of the episode - her scenes with Odo in the turbolift. While staying true to her talkative, annoying character, they also allow her to be a compassionate, understanding and sympathetic person. Nicely done. We also get a nice look into Odo's background and character as well.

The rest of the episode is agonizingly dull. The "pup" story-line is devoid of any drama, tension, suspense or excitement. The less said about it the better. The Bashir/ambassadors story-line is equally banal. However, it does make me think of an interesting theory....

Maybe the writers were trying to say that the 24th century Federation is too sure of itself. Member worlds are so used to being comfortable that they're not even taking diplomacy seriously anymore. So all the ambassadors care about is whether they get fancy quarters or not, instead of actually learning about Bajor or the Wormhole. Do they even realize how important the station could potentially be? From their viewpoint, does Bajor even matter? It's a situation that raises a few warnings about where the Federation might be headed.

Of course, that's all bullshit and I'm not actually willing to give the writers that much credit. What it really is is the standard Trek cliche of ambassadors acting like jerks, nothing more.

Aside from Troi essentially being allowed to do the equivalent of kicking Quark in the groin there isn't anything particularly bad about "The Forsaken". And aside from the scenes (a few touching) in the turbolift, there's nothing particularly good about it either.

5/10
Lord Garth
Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 12:01pm (UTC -6)
Re: New Trek Series Coming in 2017

I was already thinking about doing someone similar to that anyway, except using my own personal ratings, but this exercise is basically the same thing, so I'll bit the bullet.

Pulling up another tab, to look for Jammer's ratings, and plugging in the numbers...

DS9:
"The Darkness and the Light" - 3
"Empok Nor" - 2

VOY:
"The Raven" - 2.5
"Mortal Coil" - 3
"Retrospect" - 3
"Living Witness" - 4
"Drone" - 4
"Gravity" - 2.5 (one of my favorites, so I disagree with this)
"Bride of Chaotica!" - 2
"Course: Oblivion" - 1.5
"Juggernaut" - 2.5
"Relativity" - 3
"Barge of the Dead" - 4
"Alice" - 2.5
"One Small Step" - 3.5
"Spirit Folk" - 1
"Fury" - 1.5
"The Haunting of Deck Twelve" - 1.5 (sounds way too harsh)
"Flesh and Blood" - 3.5 (not so sure about that... )
"Workforce, Part I and II" - 3.5 for Part I, 3 for Part II
"Friendship One" - 2.5

"Flesh and Blood" and "Workforce" count twice as two-part/two-hour episodes.

Sooo....

63 stars divided by 23 episodes (Memory Alpha counts "Flesh and Blood" once I believe, I'm counting it twice) provides a star average of...

2.739 stars.
NCC-1701-Z
Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 11:44am (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S3: The Defector

@Chrome, Jason R: I loved Tomalak as well and was very disappointed that this was his last true appearance. For the role he was given, he played it very well. Katsulas did play the Vissian Captain on the ENT episode "Cogenitor" though. Sadly, he passed away in 2006.

It would have been nice to have him or Sela in Star Trek Nemesis in place of the one-off Romulan Commander Donatra.
NCC-1701-Z
Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 11:28am (UTC -6)
Re: New Trek Series Coming in 2017

Looking up Fuller's record, I'm hopeful. According to Memory Alpha, in 2009 he said in an interview he wanted a new series based on "old style" Trek. To quote him: "I loved Voyager and Deep Space Nine, but they seem to have lost the '60s fun and I would love to take it back to its origin."

Going back to Memory Alpha, Fuller's record includes:

DS9:
"The Darkness and the Light"
"Empok Nor"

VOY:
"The Raven"
"Mortal Coil"
"Retrospect"
"Living Witness"
"Drone"
"Gravity"
"Bride of Chaotica!"
"Course: Oblivion"
"Juggernaut"
"Relativity"
"Barge of the Dead"
"Alice"
"One Small Step"
"Spirit Folk"
"Fury"
"The Haunting of Deck Twelve"
"Flesh and Blood"
"Workforce, Part I and II"
"Friendship One"

Someone else can compile an average of the Jammers ratings for this eps; I'm not going to do it. ;)
Robert
Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 11:23am (UTC -6)
Re: Trailer: Star Trek Beyond

@Yanks - 100% agree. SW/ST fans are rivals in many settings, but I always felt that was more in a good fun (my Dad can beat up your Dad, Batman could beat up Spiderman, the Enterprise could beat the Millennium Falcon) kind of thing than anything else. This is not like Marvel vs DC where the average person doesn't have time to read 4 billion comics and most prefer one brand to another. The honest truth is that I don't really know too many Star Trek fans that haven't seen most of Star Wars. Sure, most of us know which we prefer, I'm 100% a Trekker, but I've still seen all 7 SW movies.
NCC-1701-Z
Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 11:21am (UTC -6)
Re: New Trek Series Coming in 2017

Patrick D, James, and others: I'm in full agreement with you on Trek's need for an optimistic, humanistic outlook; as much as I enjoyed nuBSG, I feel that if Star Trek took that path it would be a death sentence for the show in the long run. I think that's one of the reasons why people left Enterprise; it cleaved a bit *too* close to contemporary issues at the time, especially in S3 (even for me, speaking as someone who thought highly of ENT S3 as a whole). There's nothing wrong with commentary on contemporary issues, of course (after all, it was such a big component of TOS/TNG), but there's a fine line between insightful commentary versus paralleling current events *too* closely and being about as subtle as a brick clanging to the floor.

That's probably the reason why I became such a big Doctor Who fan; for the most part IMO it was able to recapture the optimistic sense of anything-can-happen adventure that Trek used to have but lost sometime in the middle of DS9. Anyone looking for a show with a mostly optimistic outlook, I strongly recommend giving the 2005 version of Doctor Who a try, at least to tide you over till 2017. I find it to be the closest thing to TOS/TNG currently on the market as far as official TV shows are concerned (not counting the fan series New Voyages and Star Trek Continues which are also very, very good and well worth checking out too). If Bryan Fuller uses Doctor Who as a model for the new Trek series I will be very happy indeed.
Yanks
Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 10:24am (UTC -6)
Re: Trailer: Star Trek Beyond

"I am seriously considering the notion that self-proclaimed Star Wars fan J.J. Abrams might just be on a three-movie mission to severely damage (and, if possible, destroy) his love's most prominent rival brand."

I've read lots of "WTF" posts on this site and have most certainly written a few myself, but this one just takes the cake.

Good lord...

A couple things... what you insinuate is so far beyond considering it's almost funny. Also, folks need to realize Star Trek and Star Wars are NOT rivals. (despite what all the fan-boys think) Star Trek has Star Wars to thank for being on the big screen. They are apples & oranges and actually complement each other. The universe is definitely big enough for the two of them.
Chrome
Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 9:53am (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S3: The Defector

I think Tomalak's actor plays a good Cold War villain, to say the least. His more memorable episode is "The Enemy". Though it was nice to have him back in "All Good Things..."

I can't think of a more memorable Romulan, to be honest. I suppose Nero from the Abrams' Trek movie, but that's more likely because the movie is newer, not because Nero was a stellar Romulan.
Yanks
Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 9:51am (UTC -6)
Re: New Trek Series Coming in 2017

I'm pretty excited about Brian Fuller. His work on Voyager (Fury not-withstanding) was outstanding.

I guess I need to watch Hannibal... folks talk like it was outstanding.

I still say he could call Manny... these two might make a great pair.
Robert
Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 7:58am (UTC -6)
Re: New Trek Series Coming in 2017

@Garth - He definitely wasn't the main writer on "Barge of the Dead", that was Ron Moore, whom I really like, thought I really don't like "Barge of the Dead".

That said, "Raven" and "Workforce" are both tremendously excellent, "Mortal Coil" might be in my top 10 for VOY and most of the rest of those are fairly good except that the last 5 minutes of "Friendship One" makes me violently angry and I hope he didn't write that scene.

Overall probably a net gain in my opinion of him though.
Paul M.
Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 7:33am (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S3: The Defector

I never quite understood the following Tomalak seems to have among some Trek fans. I mean, he's the guy we saw a handful of times growling an smirking over the screen. Nothing remotely memorable about him as far as I'm concerned.
Jason R.
Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 7:01am (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S3: The Defector

It's a shame that in later episodes Tomalak has to be supplanted by Sela. Apart from the fact that Sela is shown to be an incompetent twit through her endless blundering, Denise Crosby is such a vastly inferior actor to Andreas Katsulas. Tomalak made such a delicious recurring villain. Shame this was his last real appearance.
Paul M.
Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 3:51am (UTC -6)
Re: New Trek Series Coming in 2017

Well, to guys that miss optimism in Trek, let me just point you in the direction of Fuller's (not so recent) comments where he indeed states that he'd like for Trek to return to the more "dynamic and passionate" style present in TOS.

Luke
Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 3:08am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S1: If Wishes Were Horses

Another transplanted TNG story - only this time I even doubt it would work on TNG.

Where to begin? Let's start with Rumpelstiltskin. Rumpel-fucking-stiltskin! Were they kidding?! I guess it was originally planned for this to be a leprechaun but Colm Meaney talked them out of it because of all the negative Irish stereotypes leprechauns represent. Maybe they should have gone with their first plan. At least then they could have played around with the stereotypes and showed how ridiculous they are. Instead we got this. Isn't Rumpelstiltskin supposed to be terrifying? This guy is all cute and cuddly and adorable. He's only vaguely threatening when he asks if Molly is O'Brien's firstborn.

Buck Bokai. Who cares? What is this obsession these people have with how noble baseball supposedly is? Look, I actually like that Sisko is a baseball fan, it gives us some nice moments throughout the series and even delivers an enjoyable fluff piece in "Take Me Out to the Holosuite". But enough of stuff like "That was baseball's epitaph, wasn't it. Nobody seemed to have time for us anymore." Baseball isn't the god-damn Mona Lisa or Michelangelo's David!

Fantasy Dax. You know, it's actually kind of sad that I prefer Fantasy Dax to the real one. She may be demure almost to the point of being off-putting, but, at least she has a definable personality. I mean, other than being snooty and condescending. And there's the scene where Real Dax basically treats Bashir like shit for fantasizing about her in that way. So, Bashir profusely apologizes for Fantasy Dax's personality, Real Dax says not to worry about it because private thoughts are private and she feels like Bashir's privacy has been invaded, then she criticizes him for said private thoughts. Was this supposed to be funny, in a haha-Bashir-is-so-uncomfortable-let's-laugh-at-him kind of way? Because all it was a damn-Dax-really-is-an-unlikable-ass kind of way. Bashir apologizes for PRIVATE THOUGHTS and it's still not good enough for her because those thoughts don't live up to her expectations. What a bitch! What does Bashir see in this woman; hell, what does anybody see in her? Then she gets into an argument with Fantasy Dax while continuing to criticize Bashir, because they hadn't shown how much of a bitch she could be yet, I suppose. UGH!!!! The only redeeming (if you can call it that) feature is that Terry Farrell plays a bubble-headed, submissive nymphomaniac better than she plays Real Dax.

Oh, and we have a spatial anomaly threatening everyone which is only part of their imaginations. So, to quote Kira from "Move Along Home", "What? You mean we were never in any real danger?" because fuck any actual drama or tension we might have had. Oh, and we get this this classic Trek scene - "Ladies and gentlemen, may I have your attention, please? Ladies and gentlemen, and all androgynous creatures, your attention please! As you may have noticed, we're experiencing some difficulties. I'm going to have to ask you all to please refrain from using your imaginations." I guess with didn't quite have the necessary dose of cringe-worthiness yet for the episode!

The only redeeming feature of "If Wishes Were Horses" is that it gave Colm Meaney a chance to portray a concerned father, always a welcome thing (especially since in today's television landscape fathers are almost uniformly bumbling, incompetent fools). It's not the worst of DS9 Season One - it's not asinine like "Move Along Home" or horribly conceived like "Q-Less" and it's not downright unwatchable). But it's still pretty bad.

HOLODECK TOYS - 2

2/10
Andrew
Wed, Feb 10, 2016, 12:21am (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S2: Threshold

Big LOL that the writers should have just saved this concept/plot for the finale, what a way that would have been to conclude.
Dave
Tue, Feb 9, 2016, 11:38pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S1: Justice

Reading the comments on this one...

Had a laugh at that goof that called everyone flabby and fat and all that. Can't imagine what "David" looks like in real life. I guess you have to be 2% body fat or you are out of shape in his eyes.

All the actors and actresses on the planet were healthy, active, and fit people. Some were lean, some were not... but they all were healthy actors.

Strange comment to make; I guess it is par for the course on internet sites in the 2010's. Every person online is somehow ugly or fat or whatever, right? lol

TLW
Tue, Feb 9, 2016, 11:17pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S6: Blink of an Eye

The musical score really gets to me in this. When the two astronauts board Voyager and they see the crew frozen in time. It's kind of chilling.
James
Tue, Feb 9, 2016, 10:39pm (UTC -6)
Re: New Trek Series Coming in 2017

Patrick D, I'm the same as you. The only modern TV I watch are cartoons and comedy shows, because they aren't inflicted by the cynicism and violence of what I've seen of regular adult TV.

I get enough reality in my life, I don't need more of it in my entertainment. Kids have it the best out of all of us. Einstein once said "If you want your children to be intelligent, read them fairy tales. If you want them to be more intelligent, read them more fairy tales".

Star Trek used to be a fairy tale - I hope the new series will be too.
Lord Garth
Tue, Feb 9, 2016, 10:39pm (UTC -6)
Re: New Trek Series Coming in 2017

I looked up the episodes Bryan Fuller wrote on Memory Alpha, and he wrote several good episodes of Voyager. “The Raven”, “Mortal Coil”, “Retrospect”, “Gravity”, “Relativity”, “Barge of the Dead”, “Alice”, “One Small Step”, “The Haunting of Deck Twelve”, “Flesh and Blood”, “Workforce”, and “Friendship One” are all episodes I can recommend. Most of those episodes are strong character studies. In several instances, the characters beliefs are tested or challenged.

“Workforce” takes it one step further by destructing and reconstructing characterization by showing how the crew would interact as characters even if they had no memory of their lives on Voyager or where they were from.

Some episodes are high-concept. In “Alice”, Tom Paris discovers an alien shuttle that slowly takes control of him. “The Haunting of Deck Twelve” is a spoof of “The Blair Witch Project”. “Relativity” is a wacky time-travel story that fully embraces its chaos.

Then (or rather, before) there were the two episodes he wrote for DS9. “The Darkness and the Light”, a Major Kira story dealing with the ugly aftermath of Cardassian Occupation of Bajor and “Terok Nor”, an atmospheric episode on DS9’s sister station, where Garak (Andrew Robinson) is affected by a drug that turns him into a danger more akin to another character the actor the actor has played: Scorpio in "Dirty Harry".

Out of 22 episodes he wrote, the only two "bad" ones were "Spirit Folk" (the second Irish village episode), which I don't have a problem with but most people do, and "Fury", the episode were Kes returns. That episode actually *is* horrible. So overall, that's a good ratio. 22 episodes and only two misses.

Judging by all these episodes, I think Bryan Fuller would have the range you'd normally see in a typical Star Trek season.

I haven't seen "Hannibal", so I can't say anything about that.
Patrick D
Tue, Feb 9, 2016, 10:08pm (UTC -6)
Re: New Trek Series Coming in 2017

@ Matthew

It might seem quaint and naive. But, on the flip side it could be refreshing escapism. I, personally, get worn down by the constant gritty, downbeat tone of modern pop entertainment. There's got to be others who feel the same way.
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