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Diamond Dave - Thu, Nov 26, 2015, 7:41am (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S3: Life Support

Everything in this episode seems just a little overblown to me. Bareil's self sacrifice, Winn's machinations, Kira's desire to keep Bareil functioning, Bashir's devotion to his patient - it just seems like the volume has been turned up 20% above normal and it leaves the episode feeling a little overwrought.

The B-story is eminently forgettable and dovetails poorly with the more serious tone of the main story. 2 stars.
Mike - Thu, Nov 26, 2015, 7:17am (USA Central)
Re: Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country

I wasn't surprised that Brock Peters, a black actor, said the most overtly racist line. Trek directors love using that bit of irony. They did the same thing in Enterprise when they made black Terra Prime members who were as vile as Klansmen about Vulcans.

This is my favorite Trek movie but the script had way too much exposition in the dialogue. And forgive me but I'm really tired of how Trek ignores basic astrophysics. 1. If Rura Penthe is just an asteroid then it wouldn't have enough mass for Earth like gravity let alone an atmosphere. 2. How did the Excelsior feel the way shock of the explosion of Praxis from several light years away?

My problem with the plot was how they CONVENIENTLY find the two crewmen who wore the gravity boots right there dead in the hallway. Took them half the damn movie to find the boots and zero seconds to figure out who wore them because, hello, two dead bodies are right here where the dialogue needs them.

John - Thu, Nov 26, 2015, 3:49am (USA Central)
Re: VOY S3: Displaced

The reason Chakotay didn't arm the self destruct is because he can't. The computer only accepts Janeway's "Janeway Pie 110" code and voice authorization for auto-destruct. The computer wouldn't have recognized Chakotay's authority to do that. Only the captain can.
Andrew - Thu, Nov 26, 2015, 1:03am (USA Central)
Re: ENT S1: Acquisition

And Archer complaining of T'Pol was also sort of OK but T'Pol, Archer and Trip were also generally bad.
Andrew - Thu, Nov 26, 2015, 12:54am (USA Central)
Re: ENT S1: Acquisition

One of the worst episodes ever and I often like the Ferengi; they were just so stupid here, especially Krem who never got around to actually being sympathetic. The only sort of OK part was Archer and Trip pretending to fight.
William B - Thu, Nov 26, 2015, 12:00am (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S4: Hard Time

As ever I find episodes I really like to be intimidating, so I'll keep this short for now. This is my favourite of the season.
William B - Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 11:57pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S4: Rules of Engagement

So, I agree that Worf should not have fired on the decloaking ship without verifying that it was an enemy vessel. As improbable as it seems for a civilian ship to decloak in the middle of a battle, Sisko's statement that Starfleet prioritizes civilian lives above their own ships' security and (especially) that this was an area known to be used by civilians. That said, the situation is so contrived that I cannot quite understand how the court case went on as long as it did. Yes, Worf acted inappropriately, to some degree, according to Starfleet protocol, but it was such an obvious accident and an obvious mistake to make, and, more to the point, it is impossible to understand how the Klingon rules of engagement would view firing on a decloaking ship in the middle of an ongoing battle as a beyond-the-pale act of murder instead of an accident. In fact, it seems pretty possible that Klingon rules of engagement don't have anything against firing on civilians accidentally, because Ch'Pok cannot seem to keep straight from one minute to the next whether it's a good thing or a bad thing to fire on civilians in battle. In order to corner Worf, Ch'Pok bounces back and forth between "any Klingon would have fired on that ship with intent to kill" and "you are the ultimate un-Klingon coward for firing on those civilians," with endless variations designed to vex Worf until Worf finally loses his cool, which proves that he totally fired on those civilians because he lost his cool, I guess, which shows he should be extradited because his heart is Klingon, and only the Klingons can prosecute a person whose heart is Klingon, and by extraditing Worf for being a Klingon in his heart the Klingon Empire will embarrass the Federation for having such cowardly officers that act like Klingons, which, uh, wait, let me start over. Ch'Pok's irrational baiting could maybe play in lower court circuit, but surely a Vulcan admiral JAG would be able to recognize that none of what he is saying holds together. When Kurn put Worf through his paces, basically snarling at Worf about how Worf's actions have ruined his life and then attacking him for Worf's weakness in criticizing him, this made sense because Kurn was angry, broken, and also ambivalent about what Worf had done and how he should respond. Ch'Pok is attempting some sort of legal trickery which really does not work. I don't know what extradition between the Federation and the Klingons look like -- actually probably at the moment there *is* no formal extradition -- but it seems to me that whether or not a person is Klingon by birth doesn't matter, especially since Worf's Klingon citizenship has presumably been revoked; Kirk and Bones were extradited in STVI not because they were Klingon, but because they committed a crime against the Klingons, whereas Ch'Pok really does seem to be arguing that Worf's actions are only a crime if he is Klingon (which he is, unless he's not enough of a Klingon and then...).

Anyway, the episode's dubious legal hoops are largely there to examine what motivates Worf at this stage in the game, and how much he is truly a Klingon, and what that means now that Klingons are once again something like adversaries (or, neither allies nor adversaries but maybe both, as Ch'Pok suggests). The episode-long question of whether Worf behaved wrong on the bridge does basically come down to his intent, and his intent is a mixture of several factors, including Klingon blood-lust, his desire to prove himself to his people, his desire for revenge, and his relative inexperience in command. As with "Dax," the episode zags in court and avoids answering the "question" of the episode, but "Dax" had a somewhat better-posed and less answerable question ("is a Trill responsible for the actions of their symbiont's previous hosts?") and the twist that let Dax off the hook on the stand also said something about her (and Curzon's) character. The question that the court case sort of poses is something like, "Is Worf's heart Klingon, but, like, Klingon in a bad way, I mean, or not Klingon enough but overcompensating Klingon," so that the irresolution in court is not quite as satisfying. Really, there's no reason Worf couldn't have accidentally killed some civilians in battle, in a way where he was genuinely not criminally responsible but still made what ends up being a bad command decision -- there are all kinds of military mistakes that are the result of bad judgment but are not reprimandable offenses. And until the twist, this episode did seem to be portraying a case where Worf was in a situation he was not entirely prepared for and made some decisions that maybe were just a fraction off, leading to lots of deaths, because, you know, *command*, in which charges should probably have been dismissed no matter whether Worf said he was hoping he'd go into battle at Quark's the day before or not. That the Klingons actually faked the -- it's too stupid, I'm not even going to say it -- feels like a cheat and even an unnecessary one.

The last scene between Sisko and Worf is pretty good though, and in particular because Sisko does seem to get through what the episode has really been suggesting: Worf made several errors in judgment, none of which were deserving of major charges or for him to be extradited, but all of which could potentially have resulted in loss of life which would have been catastrophic and would have been on Worf's conscience. That Worf could lose his cool in court and play Ch'Pok's dumb game, that Worf was excited at the prospect of battle and even shared that publicly, and that Worf did not check the ship before firing are signs that the transition from tactical, where his battle-readiness was appropriate and was also kept in check by Picard/Riker/Data, to command. But he is learning. That Worf's loneliness and resentment are coming out in his command decisions -- that he may have been taking out his anger over his loss of status and loss of his brother on the ships he was fighting -- is an interesting wrinkle for the character, and I do not think it is particularly damning at all given that it seems to me that other than not checking the decloaking ship -- i.e. his not considering the pretty remote possibility that a civilian ship would decloak in the middle of a battle -- his behaviour in battle was entirely appropriate.

The episode is pretty dull, really, and very by-the-numbers as a court case. The theatrical talking-in-flashbacks device is neat, though is not enough to save the episode. There is some good current-state material for Worf, but not really enough to sustain this episode. 1.5 stars.
William B - Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 11:19pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S4: Accession

Summary: Jammer is right when he says the first four acts are much better than the last. The first four could have been a part of a great story, if the story were allowed to continue on. And even if the episode's material were largely dropped, the Sisko character development could go very interesting places...if the full implications of the Wormhole Aliens putting him through his paces to make him toe the line were examined. The series never quite points out how screwed up the way the Prophets treat Sisko and Bajor as a whole is.
William B - Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 11:15pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S4: Accession

Part 2 of comment, which alas is not shorter at all:

I talked this episode over with my girlfriend a bit, and we discussed how the Bajorans' total eschewing of personal responsibility in letting the Emissary and tradition dictate their lives to them really does seem realistic. While Akorem having that much personal power and instituting changes so suddenly is implausible, the overall idea that big changes in opinion can happen very quickly, even on large scales, does seem valid. Given that it seems likely that a conservative/reactionary contingent of Bajorans, probably represented by Kai Winn, might have been stoking the fires regarding what has been lost in discarding d'jarras, it also seems as if Akorem may have been something of a figurehead for this change; he remains on the station, no doubt to be closer to the Prophets, but it also means that he does not set foot on Bajor. In that sense, what happens on DS9 seems to be Vedek Porta's trial run for what will become widespread on Bajor. That Bajor is damaged by the Occupation and is searching for a planetary identity in the wake of massive destruction means that returning to a caste system for religious reasons has got to be tempting to a lot of people.

So really it's not quite *what* happens that is my problem with the episode, though maybe aspects of it do bother me. The episode also obviously has the d'jarras be a Bad Idea, and so it is not as if the episode is advocating the instituting of a massive caste system for religious reasons. The issue I have is that the episode drops a bomb here -- the Bajoran social fabric is on the verge of being torn apart by an instability that zeroes in on the intersection of trauma, tradition and faith -- and then the episode just resolves it with "Prophets work in mysterious ways" material. Most particularly, that the Prophets set this in motion to force Sisko into taking on his role means that Sisko basically does come to accept responsibility for a whole planet of people, and while there no doubt are Bajorans out there able to see the problem of Akorem's social changes and the problem of Akorem having that much power just as much as Sisko is, it is ultimately only Sisko who can affect change, and within the episode it is only Sisko who is able to stand up for Bajor against Akorem's (sort of) well-meaning tyranny, and he can only do so by getting the gold star from the Wormhole Aliens who dictate who it is who gets to dictate social policy. Some of this is valuable to help Sisko recognize how much he cares about Bajor, but it leaves a pretty big gap in the story.

The episode shows the Bajoran perspective largely through Kira, who is ambivalent about Akorem's d'jarra policy, seems not to like the idea very much, does not particularly believe she has artistic talent and would have no interest in following that path, left to her own devices. But she is willing to try, and, eventually, willing to resign her commission and essentially give up her life on the station, which has become most of what her life *is*, because she would see herself giving up without devoting herself fully to her d'jarra as a failure of faith. Kira fights hard against external oppression, but her instincts telling her that this is not her path and not what she wants to do are helpless against commands from Above. Her scene with Odo as Akorem announces his Emissarydom officially highlights that the rapidly shifting Absolute Faith in individuals and how confusing this is to someone who is not locked within that faith; Sisko's word *as Emissary* was infallible and she would follow him to the ends of the galaxy, until Akorem, who says completely different and even opposite words, comes in and has the new infallibility, until Sisko gets it back, and we learn that Akorem didn't have all the answers after all. Kira mostly shrugs it off, and then the last scene she laughs about her sculpture and then gets weirded out by the (pretty unnecessary in this episode) time paradox and that's it. That Kira was willing to give up her self-direction entirely because Akorem insisted this was the way and he seemed to be the holiest of men, until he wasn't, goes mostly uncommented on.

Anyway, I realize that my biases are colouring my reaction here, so let me step back a moment: it is not Sisko's place to impose a set of values on Bajor, and to some degree it is not the place of the audience to fully judge them. As the discussion has been going in the "Bar Association" thread, to some degree we are meant to get into the minds of other societies and to take those values on their own terms. I am not exactly doing that here, and that suggests the ways the episode is both more and less complex than it seems: maybe Bajor has some sort of symbiotic relationship with its "gods" which is too precious for the Federation (or the Klingons or Cardassians or Ferengi or...) to mess with, and as long as it's possible that the Prophets really did intend for Akorem to be The Emissary, and that he would thus have the place to dictate what is and is not a holy manner of living, it may be hard to say for certain that the Bajorans are "wrong" to institute their caste system. The thing is, TOS explored what it meant for there to be powerful beings worshipped by humanoids all the time, and the powerful beings usually turned out to be computers that Kirk decided he should destroy to force people into freedom. Here, there are powerful beings who may or may not be "of Bajor," who may or may not have an actual hand in Bajoran history, especially since they have previously claimed total disinterest in corporeal life forms.

It's all very messy. In any case, if Jaro succeeded in taking over the Bajoran government and instituted the d'jarra system, Bajor's admittance into the Federation would be off the table, and the Federation and probably Ferengi and maybe even modern Klingons would recoil a little at the caste system being imposed on the Bajoran people. The Federation philosophy would oppose the restrictions on personal freedom, the Ferengi would oppose the idea that a person is limited in what they can acquire (though they have gender discrimination), and while the Klingons had a caste system there are implications that this is slowly dissolving and that people can succeed coming "from nothing." (Spoilerish: see some of the discussion in s7's "Once More Unto the Breach.") However, Bajorans are the only ones who should boss around Bajorans is the general rule here, and the Prime Directive does and should apply -- Sisko could make an impassioned argument against Jaro or Winn or Shakaar or Bareil or Kira or whatever other Bajoran political or military leader's decision about Bajoran people, but ultimately internal matters are internal. And hey, maybe the d'jarras work for Bajorans. We hear about the possible advantages of the d'jarra system, and it is consistent with the picture of a Bajor which is an artistic haven, that there really was an artisan class who *could* produce art and things of beauty without "having to" put up with the stuff of mere survival. I am not advocating for such a system, any more than I advocate for Klingon warrior ethos or Ferengi uber capitalism, but it makes sense to allow the Bajorans to decide what system works for them. And on that level for me to blithely suggest that Bajoran society is imploding because they are instituting a caste system is silly.

HOWEVER, we have never heard of the d'jarras before this episode, and Kira is basically our entire picture of the Bajoran reaction. Vedek Porta is part of the religious authority and he fully supports the Emissary, to the point where he later murders a guy. But Kira is the "everyBajoran," and mostly what we learn is that the d'jarra sucks for her and she would not be considering it at all if she didn't believe that the d'jarra suggestion had divine providence. Now, the necessity of Kira being the whole of Bajor in this episode is part of the problem with one-episode stories, and with the episode's introducing and removing it. If the d'jarras maybe could be "good" for Bajor -- or, more to the point, if a large proportion of Bajorans agree with Akorem that the d'jarras are a good idea, and the possibility has just not come up recently -- then that is interesting and should be taken on and weighed appropriately, and then the primary problems become whether or not the d'jarras are good for Bajorans as a whole, how they affect individual Bajorans, and how they affect Bajorans' relations with other cultures. However, if Kira is representative and it seems largely as if the d'jarras are taken for granted as an antiquated notion which has no place in modern Bajor and which are wholly inconvenient, BUT WE'LL REORGANIZE OUR LIVES TO FOLLOW THEM IF THE EMISSARY TELLS US TO, then the primary problems have to do with whether it makes sense for Bajorans to follow the Emissary wherever he tells them. I have largely been assuming the latter case -- that the d'jarras are far in the rear-view mirror for most Bajorans and that for the most part only remnants of the former aristocracy would want it to be reinstated, and even relatively few of those, Kira for one being much happier where she is. Moreover, I tend to assume that Sisko did not actually tell Bajorans as the Emissary to stop with this d'jarra stuff, which means that the fact that the d'jarra issue instantly disappears, at least from our perspective as audience members, suggest that the d'jarra enthusiasm was primarily based on the presumption of Akorem's divine inspiration and nothing else. And so it does seem that the issue is then all about how Bajorans relate to their Emissary.

So that being the case, the big questions that always come up come up here. Bajorans having a religion that dictates a lot of their spiritual life is an internal matter, if their Gods don't actually exist. Once they do exist, and communicate with them, then there are verifiable/non-verifiable claims, and moreover the noninterference becomes tricky because suddenly there is no "internal to Bajor" anymore, and the Prophets are as external to Bajor as the Cardassians (more so, in many ways), and so the question of how exactly Federation interlopers like Sisko are supposed to respond, particularly when they drag him into things as their Emissary. And again, it is really important to note that there are multiple levels here: Bajorans presume that the Wormhole Aliens are morally infallible and sit in judgment, etc., etc., and they also presume that they can interpret what the Prophets say, and then they also presume that if some guy saw the Prophets in the wormhole and then went through time, that they have to do everything he says because they presume that that is what the Prophets wanted. This episode resolve the telescoping issues by having it made clear that, no, Sisko is the real Emissary, which only scratches the surface of the issues here. Sisko is the Real Emissary, and Akorem is not, and that's great, but whether Bajorans should give the power to the Emissary that they do, or to the Prophets that they do, or that Sisko as Emissary should give himself over to the Prophets as much as he does here, are questions that remain unanswered and almost unexamined. Of course, this is an episode in an ongoing narrative, and that helps and harms it: it helps it because not everything has to be dealt with now, but it harms it because it may be that the issues are never really examined closely enough to disentangle them.

Oh and also, Bashir and O'Brien are friends. I actually like the subplot and I think that Keiko does indeed come across better than in other episodes (I agree with methane that Jane Espenson's good humour and perhaps female perspective helps). I agree with, eg., Elliott above that this seems unnecessary, especially in the middle of this particular episode. However I am inclined to think that more work to solidify the Bashir/O'Brien bond may be in order a few episodes before "Hard Time," and so I don't mind the subplot for itself, even though this is probably not an episode that should have housed it. It is interesting that O'Brien's joy at Keiko's return and his realization that he's going to be a father a second time is very shortly eclipsed by how he misses Bashir and Molly is not as fun a darts player, but I digress. Best moment of the episode probably is Worf's panicked reaction to finding out about Keiko's pregnancy.

I maybe make it sound like I don't like the episode, but that is not the issue exactly. I think that what it does, it does fairly well, but it is very difficult to ignore what the rushed ending leaves unsaid. 2.5 stars, I guess.
Diamond Dave - Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 4:31pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S3: Past Tense, Part II

This basically boils down to a hostage drama and why it's OK to far as it goes - it's good to see Sisko kicking ass and taking names - but given we already know from Pt1 how the end will play out, if not the exact mechanism, then there isn't really a whole lot of suspense.

Add to that a number of irritating hostage cliches, some blatant moralising, and some somewhat misplaced humour it's OK but not much more than that. 2.5 stars.
Chrome - Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 3:37pm (USA Central)
Re: TNG S1: Conspiracy


Good review, but minor nitpick. The doctor in this episode is Crusher, not Pulaski. Pulaski would never have been able to pull off the fake bluegill so well.
Diamond Dave - Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 1:45pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S3: Past Tense, Part I

Not sold on this as much as many others. For me the social commentary is about as heavy handed as it gets - lets have Sisko and Bashir see how the poor live and Dax see how the rich live, and compare and contrast.

The contrived nature of how we arrive at this point is my other big problem with the episode - it relies on too many outrageous coincidences. The transporter malfunction is highly unlikey in universe. The time travel is to the place and time of a critical event in world history. Gabriel Bell happens to be the guy killed saving our heroes. The Defiant evades the timeline change because of the same contrivance as the transporter malfunction. And so on...

Now that said, this is pretty atmospheric and the out of time world is nicely realised. But really, this is a bit overblown. 2.5 stars.
Andy's Friend - Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 11:05am (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S4: Bar Association


"when a klingon episode shows up I accept that their values matter to them and look at the characters as part of that culture. And the writers do the same. When a Ferengi episode comes up I still try to understand their point of view but the writers don't."

William B is right: you hit the nail on the head here.
Andy's Friend - Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 10:51am (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S4: Bar Association

William B,

"The thing is, I can imagine ways in which Worf could start siding with Quark -- for example, if we push the episode's class stuff further, maybe with his House stripped, Worf pines for his aristocratic status within the Empire and projects this onto Quark's attempt to hold onto what is "his" by Ferengi tradition."

I think you're quite right:

A traditional, aristocratic warrior ethos values honour, tradition, law, and order, and will therefore almost always side with authority. Almost any authority.

The only exception to this is the importance given to *justice* in a given ethos. To a mediaeval, chivalrous, Christian knight, for instance, the notion of justice was much more important than to a Roman patrician, or a Japanese samurai. While all three would expect servants to obey their masters, the Christian knight would also expect the masters to treat their servants with a certain minimum of fair treatment as good Christians, and might even go so far as to support a revolt against a tyrannous lord as a just cause. This is indeed at the very core of the mediaeval Christian concept of 'bellum iustum, or 'just war'.

We know that the Klingon ethos also values justice; in fact, it is at the very heart of Klingon mythology: Kahless the Unforgettable rose to fight the tyrant Molor. But would this be enough to make Worf support Quark's workers?

I don't believe so. Unlike the Roman patricians, who had little or no regard for human life but were often undistinguishable from great merchants, always involved in trading, the Klingon ethos seems to much more resemble the Japanese one, with a much more profound divide between land and commerce, nobility and money. In a Roman perspective, much more pragmatic, a pennyless patrician would no longer be a patrician. In the Japanese worldview, utterly dogmatic, all a samurai needed was his sword, and his word, to be noble.

In "The House of Quark" we see hints of the economic workings of a Klingon noble house. And unlike the Romans, it is clear that the Klingons have little or no respect for that part of the administration of noble estates: it is a necessary evil, best to be avoided by the lords themselves. This is again consistent with the administration of Japanese noble houses, in which the lords would be expected to master calligraphy, and poetry, and would spend their time in other such noble occupations: not accounting.

So while I can imagine a Klingon warrior supporting a rebellion against a tyrannous lord, the rebellion must *not* be about... money. The workers' cause at Quark's, in the eyes of a samurai or a Klingon warrior, would seem dishonorable: they are not beaten, raped, or otherwise mistreated by their master. All they want is more money, and other trivial things. To a Ferengi this is of course of great importance; but to a Klingon, the importance is next to none: a Klingon would not recognize the workers' claims.

So it makes sense that Worf wouldn't really be interested in Quark's and the workers' quarrels over trivial matters; but must he take sides, it would be with Quark: not out of sympathy for his cause, but as a natural, visceral defence of tradition. Because in the eyes of his ethos, tradition is inherently good. Klingon tradition is good for Klingons; Cardassian tradition is good for Cardassians; Romulan tradition is good for Romulans; and Ferengi tradition is good for the Ferengi. As a Jem'Hadar would say: "It is the order of things".
James - Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 7:10am (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S1: Progress

I don't care so much about the implausibility of consuming a whole moon an its breathable atmosphere for energy. Star Trek has always been implausible. But the ethical stance the episode takes is troubling. Kira is not nearly conflicted enough, and the ending is an awful resolution.

What would have been better (and I thought the writers may have had this in mind when I first watched it) is if the kiln they were building was actually a crematorium for Mullibok. At the end he could have asked Kira to end his life to remain at his home, and she could have refused. Or he could have taken his own life with Kira regretting that she couldn't help him. Perhaps this would have been all too gory for the producers, but it would have added the extra shades of grey I think the episode needed.
Dimpy - Tue, Nov 24, 2015, 11:03pm (USA Central)
Re: TOS S3: Turnabout Intruder

I liked this episode. For its time, its a liberal portrayal of women, to even suggest a women can be a captain is a big step forward. Its also Roddenberry's revenge, because he wanted a female second in command, so that if Kirk is out of commission, the women would take over. The network nixed the idea, hence this production.
Wilt - Tue, Nov 24, 2015, 10:02pm (USA Central)
Re: VOY S5: Gravity

lol Rosario! I was just about to comment on Tuvok not putting Paris's face thru those rocks when Tom was in his face about Noss being upset and I read your (3 year old) comment. It wouldn't be a fair fight tho when you think about it. Remember Vulcans have a lot more strength for their size than the average human. It's probably that security that allowed Tuvok to retain control knowing he COULD do that to Tommy boy. I'm sure his old man Owen Paris must have felt the same way from time to time about him when we was a little bugger. We know he was always a willful guy. Look at his life's history (or better yet check out his star trek wiki page).

I'm guessing this was all about showing how excellent Vulcans' emotional control is. And I must agree that he still showed incredible restraint. Considering how little he had when he was younger as we saw in the opening the writers probably had Tom put on a show to demonstrate how resilient Tuvok had become since then.

But the title still doesn't quite gel with that aspect of the story. If a fellow trekkie has a moment or two please enlighten me me on that one, because I just don't see the connection.
navamske - Tue, Nov 24, 2015, 7:18pm (USA Central)
Re: VOY S7: Author, Author


"And BanotherW, they couldnt install holoemiters on Voyager but they have them in dilithium mines!?!"

Good point. I had a similar thought about "Message in a Bottle," wherein the Prometheus had "holo-emitters on every deck." OK, but even in the Jeffries tubes?
Grumpy - Tue, Nov 24, 2015, 7:13pm (USA Central)
Re: VOY S4: Demon

JC: "Demon class planets don't really sound out of the ordinary. If anything I'd think there would be more of them out there. ...I give the writers credit for trying to be original. Means their thinking caps are on..."

I agree with your first point, which is why I disagree with your second. The writers deserve no credit for originality when they congratulate themselves for something they should've been doing all along.
Latex Zebra - Tue, Nov 24, 2015, 4:16pm (USA Central)
Re: Star Trek Into Darkness

JJ Abrams "We got in trouble on the second Star Trek film with some of the fans. There were too many nods to The Wrath of Khan. I'll cop to that."

No shit.

William B - Tue, Nov 24, 2015, 2:43pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S4: Bar Association

Ah, that sounds likely. I did think that it may be that Worf had no opinion, but I think I was sort of hoping that Worf did have an opinion, because I somewhat liked that Odo sided with the management in that it started allowing me to imagine an alternate version of the episode in which the whole of the main cast started taking sides for very particular, personal reasons (Odo sides with management because he likes order, O'Brien sides with labour because he favours the underdog, is nostalgic, and his NCO status means he identifies with the workers, Worf sides with management because ???), which may have been more interesting to explore than what we got. The thing is, I can imagine ways in which Worf could start siding with Quark -- for example, if we push the episode's class stuff further, maybe with his House stripped, Worf pines for his aristocratic status within the Empire and projects this onto Quark's attempt to hold onto what is "his" by Ferengi tradition.

In fact, the episode sort of gestures (interestingly) to this idea -- to some degree, basically Quark and Rom's *personal* dispute, as siblings, and the labour dispute between Quark's employees and Quark, as workers and employer, get taken over by conflicting interests who get involved to defend one or two principles and then promptly lose interest. Bashir suggests unionizing and then after Rom actually unionizes, half-assedly back-pedals and suggest he didn't actually tell Rom to do that. O'Brien gets passionate about the idea of unions from his family history and gets in brawls over it, but does not do all that much to help the workers. Sisko intervenes when his officers get into a relatively minor (if inappropriate) fight, which has little to do with Quark or Rom or anyone, and then is noitceably absent when Nausicaans beat Quark badly while he no doubt begs for mercy. Brunt swoops in to protect Ferengi values, has the one person on Brunt's "side" beats up and inadvertently forces management to capitulate to *all* the union's demands. Worf has no opinion about the union at all but is in a bad mood so gets into a fight. That read strikes me as pretty funny and entertaining, particularly against the backdrop of Bajoran Space Lent starting everything up, which means that basically every element of this episode is created by conflicting ideological and quasi-religious motivations, mixed in with decades-old family resentments, to the point where it becomes basically impossible for any of the characters to deal with the conflict rationally. That is *maybe* what they were going for, and I think aspects of it are definitely in the final product, but it is pretty confused.
Pike - Tue, Nov 24, 2015, 2:38pm (USA Central)
Re: VOY S2: Tuvix

I rarely watch this one either. His creation was an accident. His death was on purpose. It may not have been his fault any more than Tuvok and Neelix who were also victims. But trivializing it into "someone must die and its a good example of whatever" doesn't begin to explain what just happened here.

It sure does fall under genocide. There had never been a hybrid of a talaxian and a Vulcan before. And now there never will be again. No one from the Alpha Quadrant will even be in the Delta Quadrant. At least not for another 100+ years according to Q.

Seeing a man plead for his life while everyone just stands around like borg drones isn't Starfleet at all. How is this different from When Hitler led Jews to their deaths whilst they pleaded for their lives? Or watching those sick terrorists behead a man while he's pleading for his life while they record it? Does it really matter how they got into the situation? The fact is it's someone's life and they are taking it. And They thought their motives were as noble as Janeway's too.

This is another ep I think of when I watch Equinox, in particular the briefing room scene she had with Capt Ransom and how she sits there judging him with her demeanor. What he did was wrong, no question. And what she did here was perfectly ok? Let's not forget how she threw crewman Lessing to the dogs as well. The only reason he is still alive is because chuckles intervened. Murder is murder. And again it sure wasn't Tuvix's fault anymore than it was Tuvok's or Neelix's. The ends do not justify the means in this case. Or in Lessing's case either.

Too adamant on living? I don't get that line. No one who isn't wearing a military, police or fireman's uniform is going to willing sacrifice himself when he has no say so in the matter. I don't find that argument compelling in the least. He didn't want to die! Hell, would you?

I don't know. Maybe the only way to understand it is to be the victim who has to die. Then it becomes clear as crystal.

And I thought Threshold was unwatchable. Actually it was, but for different reasons. I'm not sure what they were hoping to accomplish by showing this. Then again I doubt they could have left Tuvix as is. It still would have been problematic for some unforeseen reason. Either way can't be undone now. So all I can do is not rate it. I don't find a so-called enlightened crew killing a man whom is pleading for his life to be very entertaining. I gave it a watch once or twice and that's about it. I am curious as to how Gene Roddenberry would have felt about it tho.
JC - Tue, Nov 24, 2015, 2:26pm (USA Central)
Re: VOY S4: Demon

This got rated lower than False Prophets? Natural Law? The Chute? Non-Sequitur?? I must have been the only one who enjoyed this ep. Certainly more than the aforementioned eps. Its follow-up Course: Oblivion was downright ghastly. Why would we need to see something like that?

Anyways Demon class planets don't really sound out of the ordinary. If anything I'd think there would be more of them out there. We can't even settle in any of the other planets in our galaxy so technically wouldn't they fall under Demon class too? Guess I can google it sometime.

Why so harsh on Tuvok? Geez...Janeway didn't catch this much flak when killing Tuvix. And let's face it, she did. Anyways Tuvok wasn't doing anything more than what his job entailed.

The doctor did seem to be a bit testy with the whole staying in sick bay thing. But I'd be lying if I said I would have changed the scene. I still enjoyed it. Still get a good laugh after all these years at the part when Neelix is just about to go into (off-key) chorus and the Doc suddenly gives in. Followed up by a doc and a gleeful "computer lights, maximum illumination". Classic.

I can't keep track of the number of times I've had to suspend disbelief when watching any of the series. I didn't find this any more farfetched than anything else they've shown in the ST mythos. (Ok, Threshold was one glaring exception.)

I would have given it 2-2.5 stars since I had never even heard the designation Demon-class before. If this is the first time they've mentioned it then I give the writers credit for trying to be original. Means their thinking caps are on and they're not just rehashing some concept that was already done millions of times and better.
Easter - Tue, Nov 24, 2015, 1:59pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S4: Bar Association

I kind of feel it was implied from the lead in scene that the Worf thing was a case of Worf not caring about the strike one way or the other and O'Brien getting up in his face about it. something like
*Worf Goes in*
*O'Brien and Bashir follow*
O'Brien: What the hell do you think you're doing?
Worf: I am getting a drink. I am thirsty.
O'Brien: There is a strike going on! You can't eat here.
Worf: That is none of my concern, and you can not tell me where I can and cannot eat.
O'Brien: Stop being such an asshole *grabs Worf's sleeve and starts trying to lead him away*
And then the fight starts.

I never got the sense that the fight was because Worf passionately SUPPORTED the strike so much as he opposed whatever O'Brien said or did to try to shame him out of getting a drink there.
Diamond Dave - Tue, Nov 24, 2015, 1:53pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S3: Fascination

Well that was a desperate, desperate misfire. All we needed was a vicar with his trousers falling down for the full farce experience. And you have to say that after an episode full of unlikely hook-ups that to say they were underpinned by a level of latent attraction....? You say what now? Justifying the unjustifiable!

Ironically, the Keiko/O'Brien story felt much more grounded in reality. Indeed, on such a farcical episode as this it almost seemed too grounded. Neither of them come out of it looking good, which really makes you wonder what the point was.

Best moment - when Dax punches out Bareil. But still only 1 star...
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