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- Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 6:07pm (USA Central)
Once More Unto the Breach
Oh wow, thanks Alvin. I was not aware that John Colicos passed away so shortly after filming this. That kind of elevates this episode for me.
I really felt for Kor when he approached Worf to help him die as he lived... as a warrior.
I can understand Martok's disdain for Kor. From his perspective he's royalty and didn't want him to get a commission.
I also love the story of Martok's path to a commission. A boy from the Ketha lowlands earned a battlefield commission. This guy is a true Klingon Warrior.
I personally thought the ending was perfect. Kor was an unseen legend for everyone on the ship but Darok and they personally get to tell another story about the Dahar Master while drinking blood wine. Hell Martok may just tell this one.
Thank god they sent this actor and character out on a high note. I would have hated it if the last time we saw Kor was in 'The Sword of Kahless'
Was there a B story?
4 stars for KOR the GREAT DAHAR MASTER!!! (raise mug of 2309)
"MARTOK: To Kor. A Dahar Master and noble warrior to the end."
- Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 5:37pm (USA Central)
Treachery, Faith, and the Great River
Quarky - I guess Nog shorted himself. Rom is a genius (technically).
Finally!! DS9 is back on track!
Jeffrey Combs is just frelling out of this world good.
It was great learning about the Vorta (whether it is true or not, I think it was). Combs manages to make us feel for him (while probably not all Vorta).
"ODO: Has it ever occurred to you that the reason you believe the Founders are gods is because that's what they want you to believe? That they built that into your genetic code?
WEYOUN: Of course they did. That's what gods do. After all, why be a god if there's no one to worship you?" ... lol
"ODO: You have. And for that you have my gratitude, and my blessing."
I'm glad Odo gave Weyoun his blessing. Classy.
Of course the big reveal is that the Founders are dying... and for some reason Odo isn't. Now Odo thinks no matter who wins, he is going to lose.
For all you Nog haters... all he does is put forth the max effort in everything he does. Can't blame the writers for giving him more screen time than Jake. Jake chose to be a writer and a wuss, not many great stories there.
Just love the B plot. As a military guy I always appreciated those that could "acquire" stuff.
The Sisko desk bit was pretty darn funny.
"NOG: I never lost faith in the Great Material Continuum." :-)
Love this one all around.
- Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 5:16pm (USA Central)
Second Season Recap
"[W]hich is more impacting in dramatic terms: The notion that you have to change to fit new situations, or the notion that you have to stay the same to fit new situations? I'm inclined to say the former, but the episode claims the latter. As a result, the show has "naive" written all over it, and what could've been very striking and consequential in storytelling terms is instead quite lightweight and even presumptuous."
This. THIIIIIIS... It's been a while since I've directly addressed a Jammer comment, but I have to spit this back; Jammer is "inclined to say the former [you have to change]" and as "a result, the show [is] 'naïve." So, if the show doesn't do what you expect or want it to, it is naïve. This is every major Voyager criticism neatly packaged into ironically presumptuous idea.
- Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 4:53pm (USA Central)
Voyager's adaptive and ever-growing EMH is falling for a dying Vidiian woman (temporarily as a hologram) in the latter stages of the Phage. Knowing the track record of ST romantic bottle episodes are spotty at best, this seems like a setup for failure. Fortunately it is anything but.
This is the way to do a quiet sleeper love story on Star Trek without being a purely fluff piece. Some very touching and poignant characterizations, genuinely human lighthearted moments without being cloying, and a nice take on the subject involving the unfortunate treatment of people with illness.
The subplots involving Paris and Judas, er, Jonas are interesting enough and neither add nor detract from the overall quality.
Up to this point, we have four quality showings of Voyager out of the last six. This proves my theory that the writers had the ability to, not only match the potential that was always there, but to be fairly consistent as well.
- Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 4:07pm (USA Central)
Year of Hell, Part II
What the hell kind of show would that be? Even on BSG, they realised about about a quarter of the way through the first season that they couldn't set a show constantly on a rickety, barely functioning ship (thus, Cloud Nine). If they ended this episode as you suggest, the show would have been over by the end of the season--unless they found some other magical reset-device to fix the ship and restore Tuvok or give him a VISOR--which would be a whole different set of reasons for people to complain without end about magic resets.
- Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 3:52pm (USA Central)
Year of Hell, Part II
Well, the tricky part with any story involving time travel is that you have to give the author a little leeway simply because there is no "correct" way to depict it since (so far as we know) it doesn't exist. You also have to consider what makes an interesting story, so sometimes it may be necessary to sacrifice whatever type of "realistic" time travel you have settled on. That said, I still expect at least some degree of consistency with how time travel is treated and Voyager was just not very good at it.
It was obvious in this one at the first moment of a significant change to the crew that by the end everything would be reset by the end, which is disappointing. Imagine if they would've ended this episode by destroying the weapon ship and just carried on with all the damage that had been done, both to the ship and to the crew. Tuvok having to deal with being blind, the Doc's opinion of Janeway's judgement marred, most of the crew scattered about in escape pods and shuttles, the ship just barely functional.
- Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 3:33pm (USA Central)
Despite a few moments of silliness, this is a standout episode that manages to meld serious topics of suicide and euthanasia with a bit of the whimsical elements notorious in Q showings without conflicting each other. Some stellar dialogue and great performances seal the deal in what is classic Q and classic Trek.
- Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 2:37pm (USA Central)
It wasn't stupidity (for once), it was naïvety. You know there is a difference between dying and going extinct right?
You are of course free to have your own opinion about what is right and wrong, I was simply pointing out that Star Trek, the franchise, has never plainly laid out a morality as you depicted it. Those "contradictory" episodes (I don't find them contradictory, by the way, they are an elaboration on Trek morality) are not outliers; the Prime Directive is a major component of Trek lore and thus form an integral part of the universe's ethical model.
- Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 2:13pm (USA Central)
Jammers review hit the nail on the head here. Decent enough episode with some pretty good person vs. computer moments but not much else beyond that. I won't dwell on the improbability of coming across the missile in the first place. Improbable doesn't mean impossible. The episode is what it is and it's not half bad despite the lackluster ending.
The ongoing scenario with Paris shows that Voyager has elements that have continuity within the series. It doesn't mean the show itself is strong with continuity. If you put pieces of chocolate in vanilla ice cream; it doesn't suddenly make the ice cream chocolate. Though, I will admit, I have seen in this forum and others that people tend to overstate the lack of continuity of this series. Just my opinion anyway.
Watchable. Some good performances. Nothing spectacular.
- Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 2:04pm (USA Central)
Patrick impersonating an ADM!!! LOL!!! “That’s a stupid question too” :)
Hey Sisko, Star Fleet isn’t interested in someone dressing up as an ADM… especially one of this group.
I'm glad they brought the "mutants" back. They are an enjoyable bunch to watch for an episode.
I'm glad Bashir was able to cure Sarina. Faith Salie's acting as Sariana comes to life was fantastic.
But this episode takes a HUGE nose-dive because Bashir .... I mean for gods sake. This is worse than Dax wanting to throw everything away in Meridian.
I would have given this episode a 3 star rating, but I can't. Bashir's transgressions knock it down to 2 stars.
Do the writers even give a shit anymore?
Are there any standards left on this show?
- Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 1:19pm (USA Central)
Children of Time
^ yeah, Odo did it to save Kira, but if you love someone would you really actually tell them that? It would make her feel guilty if anything,
- Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 12:57pm (USA Central)
Absolutely intriguing and probing episode that utilizes the two characters inner struggles with violent tendencies in a conceptually brilliant way. The interplay between Suder and Tuvok where they slowly "mirror" each other is nothing short of fantastic. Questions of rehabilitation versus punishment; vengeance versus justice; when it comes to the individual is it truly black and white in every case? Or is it another gray area like most things in life? Philosophically speaking, this is one of the most unique episodes of Star Trek as it's presented here. A lot of credit to the writers is due.
I really can't see any fault with this one. Some very meaty dialogue in many scenes, great directing, standout performances, and an attention-grabbing premise. I disagree with Jammers nitpick about the ease of which Tuvok's mental disciplines were shattered. Suder is a Betazoid.
There was a comment above on how the episode fails because there's crew members involved that have never appeared on screen. Really? There's over 150 people on the ship at this point. All with varying shifts in their respective departments. I guess you would have to discount a lot of other ST episodes that involve crew members you've never seen. I make it a habit to not say anything on older comments, but I found this particular one rather...silly. No offense.
The B story for me is a non-issue. It simply is what it is and there's not enough of it to interfere, for better or worse, with the main plot.
This is one of my favorite episodes of Voyager and is also the first one to hit it out of the ballpark. Not phenomenal but extremely well done. Kudos.
- Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 12:57pm (USA Central)
Take Me Out to the Holosuite
Should we have this episode now? I guess the writers thought so. The war is only important when the writers say so you know. It IS light-years better than other "filler episodes" like "Profit and Lace" etc... (insert dumb Ferengi episode of choice) I'm glad this episode didn't make it in the "we didn't get to it" pile. That would have been a shame.
I'm a baseball guy. I played and have coached quite a bit. This episode was an absolute riot.
I won’t go through all the cliché’s as everyone else has hit on them. I'll just list a couple moments that stood out to me.
- Rom getting kicked off then agreeing with getting kicked off the team.
"ROM: But it should. You're good at it. (to Leeta) So are you, and I want to see you play. I want to see all of you play. I want to see our team beat the Vulcans, even if I'm only watching from the, the er
NOG: The stands?
ROM: Right. Please?"
That's so Rom...
Then, the best part of this show and arguably the whole series is when Sisko via Coach O'Brien puts Rom back in the game with the support of his teammates. Rom enters, as only Rom can, humble as Rom always is, then Sisko turns back on the crowd for him. If this doesn't put a lump in your throat (whether you know or like baseball or not) you have no heart or soul, you will not gain entrance to Stovokor and may the prophets give you the KIA Winn treatment.
The conflict between Sisko and Solok mirrors that of the Dominion war. The Federation faces an enemy many times more powerful than itself, yet they continue to fight and continue to take pleasure in whatever small victories they can achieve. We all know sometimes their victories are just lucky, just like Rom's "hit" when he was trying to figure out the bunt sign.
Overall, this is one of the most intelligently written humor episodes ever. It was nice seeing the crew working together on something other than the war for a change.
All good fun with some meaning attached.
***Yanks heads to the replicator to get a piece of the "scotch gum" :) ***
- Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 12:03pm (USA Central)
By Inferno's Light
. The only time you can cry foul is when the technobabble contradicts itself
Wrong. If Star Trek was set in some other universe, or was a fantasy, that would be okay. But a show cannot be a true science fiction if it is continually breaking the laws of physics. The more a show does that, the sloppier is it. And eventually, you are no longer able to suspend disbelief. This happens to me a lot when watching Trek. It's not a good thing - it's a symptom of poor writing.
- Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 11:38am (USA Central)
In Purgatory's Shadow
Also, many of you here are treating this show like it is real. It's not. Bashir was not a Changeling in the episodes previous, because the writers were very lazy and didn't create an arc. They just made it all up in this episode.
- Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 11:34am (USA Central)
In Purgatory's Shadow
Agree with Jammer that the major plot developments of this episode were thrilling and well done.
It's a fun episode, but I definitely disagree. The development that led to this episode is non existent. Basically "Yeah I saw his ship blow up, but trust me he survived, because retcon"
The rest of this episode is just shoehorned in. There is no build up to it at all in the episodes previous.
- Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 11:06am (USA Central)
Poor Ezri... not only is she going to get it from the "fans" because she will be seen as replacing Jadzia, but Sisko sends her to the wolves right off the bat.
lol .... her first assignment on DS9 is GARAK!!! How's that for a lucky draw? :-)
...and she did fine didn't she, she got Garak to come clean and realize what was hurting him didn't she?
Garak does destroy her... but does she leave? Nope. Pretty strong kid here I think. Garak himself says she deserve credit at the end.
This episode starts at 3 stars simply because Garak plays such a large role. Just how awesome was his performance in this one! This is truly epic stuff here!
"EZRI: You can be very charming. You want to know something? If Worf hadn't come along, it would have been you."
lol .... damn.... glad she wasn't counseling Bashir :-)
Sisko goes from telling star fleet she can't hack it to promoting her to LTjg all in one episode? I guess she gets bonus points for straightening Garak out :-)
3 stars, not higher because Worf seems like a whiny little Klingon in this one.
- Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 10:07am (USA Central)
What you consider "sophomoric" use of English could be considered "forward-thinking" by others. If the Borg are not a species or race because of the lack of genetic links, they are still a group. Although they may lack a "nation" in the strictest sense, we might allow the use of 1940s "nation" to refer to their ship. Thus the early legal uses of the term COULD allow the extermination of the Borg to be considered the extermination of a "national group", and thus genocide.
According to wikipedia, the latest 'legal' interpretation of the word comes from Dovid Katz:
"Genocide is the mass murder of as many people as possible on the basis of born national, ethnic, racial or religious identity as such; with intent to eliminate the targeted group entirely and internationally; without allowing the victims any option to change views, beliefs or allegiances to save themselves; and with large-scale accomplished fulfillment of the goal."
When I look at that definition, I see two things:
1. The absence of any reference to the danger such a group may pose
2. The use of the word "born", which does not apply to the Borg but which their assimilation process seems to be a worthy sci-fi counterpart for.
We can argue about the semantics forever I suppose, and it doesn't really matter that much unless one insists (as you seem to) that "genocide is always wrong". But in my view, this is missing the main issue (see below).
Tim (and many others earlier),
I'm a bit in awe that so many people seem to change the story of this episode. To me, it seemed pretty clear that everyone on board was in favor of extermination except Crusher; her dissent can be seen as a writer's trick to make sure the others' favor is highlighted ("I just want to make sure we understand what we're saying here", or whatever she says early in the episode). This is very much reinforced by the Picard-Guinan fencing scene.
This answer doesn't change just because Third of Five gets a name and/or is 'cute'. It changes because Hugh successfully demonstrates to Picard that he is a person capable of making choices. This has two huge implications that change the QUESTION, not the answer.
1. A single Borg can be reasoned with, and more importantly, can be persuaded to coexist peacefully with others.
2. A single Borg like Hugh is closer to a person than to "the Borg", and should be treated as such.
Thus the answer only changes because the question changes. It's no longer a matter of extermination. It's a matter of deceiving a person into being an unwitting, sacrificial tool of extermination. It's a matter of exterminating a group from which an individual has demonstrably shown his ability to alter his views to peaceful ones. This is the act which Picard (rightfully, in my opinion) finds immoral.
So no, it's not a question about "fight back or die". It's a question about means vs ends, and reevaluating a situation when new facts (Hugh's 'humanity') come to light.
- Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 9:31am (USA Central)
Shadows and Symbols
Will someone please explain to me how the wormhole aliens (prophets), who've NEVER EVEN HEARD OF LINEAR TIME before 'Emissary' (or the father son relationship for that matter) now understand time enough to possess a human in order to ensure Sisko is born and can complete his "destiny" when he is an adult and becomes Captain of DS9?
DS9 has gone loony tunes...
...and Jammer gives this 3.5 stars?
O'Brien and Quark going along was stupid. Just think, who the hell is left on the station here? Not:
Jadzia (dead of course, but her expertise is not there anymore)
I guess that leaves Nog in charge!!! lol At least Rom can keep things working and Leeta can make that “noise” if something happens...
Good time for an attack Dominion?
eastwest101, I agree wholeheartedly. The Klingons could have blockaded that moon. That would have made more sense that Kira playing chicken with transports. What does Kira do if the Romulan’s don’t blink? Does she open fire on them and get all her people killed … or just let them go? It’s a good think ADM Ross finally acted like an ADM, eh? I guess he was enjoying watching a cat fight. Kira’s sign from her prophets (opening of the wormhole) almost got everyone killed.
I think the physic ward Benny flashback/vision/(whatever you want to call it) is .... I don't know what to call it. Just how the hell do the Paghwraiths give visions or influence dreams or change visions to Sisko? Aren't they locked up in the Wormhole too? Can the caged up PW's in the fire caves on Bajor all of a sudden reach out and influence things? Sisko can’t hear Jake speaking to him, but he can hear and understand Ezri? What the hell is going on here?!?!?!
Whatever... none of this makes any sense unless the entire series is Benny’s story. (throws arms up and leaves the room)
(comes back in, smelling of bloodwine…)
If someone can make sense of this and explain it to me I’ll listen for sure. I’ll wait a little before I post my rating. Right now it’s very low…
- Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 8:03am (USA Central)
Image in the Sand
I'm not impressed with this season opener. I’m honestly not surprised as the writers regressed some characters in Season 6.
Star Fleet just lets Sisko go for 3 MONTHS?!?!? Really? … in the middle of a war? He's so damn important that he is selected to plan the attack on Cardassia and .... poof, he's gone?
Kira’s “B” Plot. I understand that placing weapons on that moon should have been a transparent issue with the Bajoran government, or at a minimum with Kira, but I don’t see Kira’s position as a realistic or even smart one. Once the cat is out of the bag, why does she have an issue with this? The Romulan’s are on our side.
“KIRA: Not this time, Admiral. My government considers the Romulan presence on Derna to be a direct threat to Bajor.
CRETAK: This is ridiculous. I regret not informing your government about our weapon emplacements, but I didn't think it was necessary. We're your ally.
KIRA: Then remove the weapons.
CRETAK: That would leave the hospital unprotected.
KIRA: Bajor will guarantee its safety.
CRETAK: I'm afraid that's not acceptable.
KIRA: Either you remove those weapons, or we will.”
Really Kira? Just how can Bajor protect anything? How does this pose a threat to Bajor? What would Romulus want with Bajor? I understand this could be seen as a problem with the Dominion non-interference treaty and all, but you just go ahead and make this public knowledge by bringing this to the Council of Ministers? This is just stupid. Hell, the hospital can be considered a breach of this treaty. Kira just said "hey Dominion, looky what we have on this moon!!"
Worf & everyone else left on the station’s “C” plot:
I’m OK with this one I guess, although I keep wondering if all this is necessary if Worf doesn’t leap out of his character in ‘Change of Heart’ and Jadzia dies as a result of Worf completing his mission.
I’m guessing Sisko is receiving these visions via the Orb of the Emissary, but I didn’t think that’s the way it happened. I thought these visions came from the prophets in the wormwhole. Does this mean they reside in the orbs as the wormhole is cut off and all the other orbs are dark? It all seems like a plot convenience to me.
I can understand Sisko being upset with Joe because Joe kept the truth from him about his real mother, but it seemed to me like Sisko went a little overboard with this. He’s had a loving caring family his whole life…
Ezri, When I first watched DS9 I was so opposed to Ezri it wasn’t funny. (Jadzia lag I guess) but with more rewatches, I’m most impressed with Nicole as an actress and more welcoming to the Ezri character. I guess I was right; Sisko did need someone to call “old man” in season 7.
2.5 stars for me. Sisko’s plot dragged and I thought and Kira’s “threat to Bajor” tantrum didn’t make sense.
(boy, didn’t that hospital and 7000 torpedoes go up fast on the moon? :-))
- Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 6:51am (USA Central)
The Perfect Mate
Just a funny fact. Kamala means in Finnish: awful, atrocious, dreadful, fearful, gruesome... Which is quite the opposite of her role. As Etana some episodes ago means a snail. Co-incidence, or did the writers use a Finnish dictionary to pick alien names?
- Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 6:33am (USA Central)
Sixth Season Recap
Here are my Season 6 ratings in order of best to worst. The seaosn started very strong and ended in a pile of dung.
Significantly worse than the outstanding Season 5. (almost a half point drop off per episode) I'm afraid that DS9 has peaked but I'm hopefull they can rebound for season 7. I'm not sure that's possible as I think they've weakened some characters and Jadzia is gone.
A Time To Stand 4.00
Rocks And Shoals 4.00
In The Pale Moonlight 4.00
The Reckoning 3.50
Behind The Lines 3.00
Favour The Bold 3.00
Sacrifice of Angels 3.00
You Are Cordially Invited 3.00
Far Beyond The Stars 3.00
The Sound of Her Voice 3.00
Tears of The Prophets 3.00
Sons And Daughters 2.50
Statistical Probabilities 2.50
The Magnificent Ferengi 2.50
Who Mourns For Morn? 2.50
One Little Ship 2.50
Honour Among Thieves 2.50
Time's Orphan 2.50
Change of Heart 1.00
Wrongs Darker Than Death Or Night 1.00
His Way 1.00
Profit and Lace 0.00
- Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 6:11am (USA Central)
" Archer's people were dying of Archer's own stupidity: exposing themselves to an alien virus."
This is nothing more that Enterprise/Archer hate dribble.
- Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 1:34am (USA Central)
I just watched this ep and noticed Odo's very subtle reaction to hearing kira loves Bareil. He was saddened in his reaction and but quickly hid it and misdirected kira interpretation of his reaction. Very excellent scene well written. This set up his love story for her.
When I watched these eps in my teens of the bajorans I was always bored, although I always loved winns character. But now as I am older I find these eps very gripping! All the twists visions all excellently handled. It was hard telling what winns involvement was, maybe she did call the collaborator, she did have a sideways glance at him. But she was also desperate so she threw everything at the window, even trying to get a implicit endorcemtn from sisko. Her becoming kai was the worst outcome, but did the prophets want her to become kai?
Quark figuring out whaat odo couldnt with security makes sense, he is a conmen and thinks differnetly. Conversely quark being a security chief would be a terible idea, he lacks a ethical code to maintain security
- Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 1:24am (USA Central)
"See, that is itself a conflict; if it's a "no-brainer" as you say, then why would so many episodes make the opposite case? Isn't it clearly NOT a simple question of help or don't help?"
There are some episodes that try to make the case that helping people is bad. But most of the time the reasons for not helping come down to either: "Because evolution demands that we not interfere" or "shut up, I'm the captain."
Most of the episodes that involve dying species or distress calls have the main characters helping those who ask for help. The ones that don't are the exception, not the rule. And tend to have really bad justifications, like the ones I said above.
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