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Robert - Wed, Oct 22, 2014, 4:12pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S7: Field of Fire

Solok's fixation on humiliating Sisko is illogical though.
$G - Wed, Oct 22, 2014, 3:02pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S7: Field of Fire

Elliott:

"Races/species in Star Trek are "hat races" on purpose because aliens were always meant to represent different facets of humanity, politically, ethically, historically. "Bad guys" (Klingons, Romulans, the Borg, Cardassians) possess, as a people, qualities which should be repudiated, whereas the "good guys" (Vulcans) possess, again as a people, qualities which should be emulated. The majority of Trek races are given this one note, usually bad, to stage the Morality Play. A few, like the Klingons and the Vulcans, are given enough development to explore the issues in more complex ways. There are indeed good and bad sides to Honour and Logic which are worth exploring."

This is a pretty succinct explanation of why alien races (and the stories based on them) in most of Trek are simplistic slush. DS9 is the strongest show overall because it recognizes and avoids these storytelling gaffes.
Robert - Wed, Oct 22, 2014, 12:50pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S7: Field of Fire

@Elliott - The one in Field of Fire was a villain because he was Vulcan, but he was also suffering from some kind of extreme PTSD. VOY made it clear that Vulcans HAVE emotions, they just suppress them well. And Tuvok has made it very, very clear that if he ever lost control the result would be intense. I don't like Field of Fire, but given what I would imagine Tuvok with PTSD to look like it doesn't seem like a negative portrayal of Vulcans.

Likewise Sakonna, as I said, is a villain that just HAPPENS to be Vulcan. And she's only a villain because we're supposed to be for the Bajoran resistance but against the Maquis. I always felt that, prior to Eddington, the Maquis were grey villains, as opposed to black ones.

You have a point with Solok of course, but... I don't know. I guess I just don't see it as being as subversive as you think it is. Yes, Solok is arrogant. In my post above I said specifically that a Vulcan who thinks Vulcans are superior would not be particularly problematic in cannon. A Vulcan experience arrogance as an emotion? I could see that being problematic. The all Vulcan crew on a Starfleet ship strikes me as a poor idea too. The fact that I liked nearly everything else about the episode lets me largely overlook it, but I think this episode is problematic.

That said, a young Tuvok experiences emotions (love) and needs to go train with a master to "fix it". The problem with Solok is that without much of a backstory or getting to know the character he just seems to be a Vulcan that is too emotional. Which isn't great, but it's not as bad as the all Vulcan ship.
Elliott - Wed, Oct 22, 2014, 12:46pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S7: Field of Fire

Races/species in Star Trek are "hat races" on purpose because aliens were always meant to represent different facets of humanity, politically, ethically, historically. "Bad guys" (Klingons, Romulans, the Borg, Cardassians) possess, as a people, qualities which should be repudiated, whereas the "good guys" (Vulcans) possess, again as a people, qualities which should be emulated. The majority of Trek races are given this one note, usually bad, to stage the Morality Play. A few, like the Klingons and the Vulcans, are given enough development to explore the issues in more complex ways. There are indeed good and bad sides to Honour and Logic which are worth exploring.
Elliott - Wed, Oct 22, 2014, 12:37pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S7: Field of Fire

@zzybaloobah, et al.:

The S7 Vulcan baddies weren't portrayed as villains who happened to be Vulcan, but villains *because* they were Vulcan. The animosity in the writing stemmed directly from what the Vulcan people, as an analogy for a type of human (which you pointed out is true of basically all Trek aliens. More on that in a moment), represent.

Spock, Sarek, Tuvok and the reformist Vulcans from ENT S4 were never portrayed as arrogant the way Solok was. Arrogance, recall, is an emotion. Non-Vulcan characters have often mistaken Vulcan logic for arrogance (Bones, Neelix). Perrin remarks in "Sarek" that she is impressed that Picard does not make this mistake, a condonation of his attitude and perspective. In "Unification," Spock comments to Data that Picard is himself remarkably Vulcan-like. And recall that Robert also made the mistake of considering his brother to be arrogant in "Family."

In the transition from the TOS era to the TNG, the writers very carefully carved out a place for the Vulcan philosophy as a kind of benchmark of humanoid progress (TMP being the Apollo to TWoK's Dionysus). This benchmark sits right alongside the idealism of the non-religious, non-capitalist society humanity is supposed to have achieved by the 24th century. DS9 was in the habit of wiping its ass with this idealism, and that practice goes hand in hand with its treatment of Vulcans.

As for Paul M.'s "[T]he ideal towards which the humanity ought to strive is neither uber-logic (Spock) nor uber-emotion (McCoy) but rather a synthesis of both (Kirk)," I find this rather dubious. If by "synthesis," he means dialectical synthesis, Spock is himself a synthesis of two antithetical philosophies, is he not? And most of the time, Spock's perspective is clearly in the right; Bones has to be handled by Kirk as a kind of mediator, but it's rare that Spock's logic fails him where Bones' emotions do not. If by "synthesis," he means the more common "combination," one cannot combine two elements if they are "uber," that is, entirely. I think it's unfair to judge Spock or McCoy as being extremists in their positions as logical or emotional. All the Big Three showed nuance and temperament in their approaches.

TOS' overarching narrative relies heavily on exploiting Kirk's flaws, so how can he be the "ideal human"?

As for your proportioning out thumbs up or down based on series percentiles, I can't say much more than it's incredibly reductionist and inaccurate, if for no other reason than the shows ran for different lengths of time. AND the shows had vastly differing references to Vulcans or Vulcan characters.

DS9 had its own agenda, but given episodes like "In the Cards," "Rapture," "The Siege of AR3.14...," "Covenant," "In the Hands of the Prophets" and others, it's reasonable to extrapolate an over-arching anti-Trek philosophy which emerges. These Vulcan episodes fit right with that.
Robert - Wed, Oct 22, 2014, 10:56am (USA Central)
Re: VOY S7: Human Error

I saw this recently and will chime in with those disagreeing with Jammer. I usually do agree with his dislike of Voyager's reset button, but this didn't feel like reset back to status quo. It felt like someone who took 3 steps forward and then RAN 2 steps backwards because she scared herself. But I still think she and the viewers learned something and we DID end up going somewhere.

For me this episode is up there with "His Way" & "Crossfire" and it does for Seven what those did for Odo in a lot of ways. Even after all of his lessons from Vic Odo still doesn't feel comfortable with the thought of his friends seeing him have fun and when he realizes he's dancing with the real Kira he goes from Nerys to Major at warp speed. But it shows him (and the audience) that there is someone who could have fun under there. Sure it ends with less of a reset (at least "His Way" does) but after 5 years of slow burning that romance we had to get somewhere eventually!

In a lot of ways this is Seven's "His Way" with the ending for "Crossfire". She opens up when nobody is around but in the end when she thinks she's too distracted she shuts back in. I LIKED the contrived (it was contrived) cortical node shutdown and her refusal to fix it. There was something poetic in her hiding behind her limitations instead of trying to exceed them.

And she does change a bit. The scene with Torres and the baby booties were quite sweet. I think some people saw this and lamented that she didn't start acting around her friends like she did on the Holodeck. But Odo doesn't act with his friends the way he does with Vic either. And the same for Barclay. Closed off characters learning to take baby steps in socializing do NOT need to get there in one quick jump.

The reset button here felt organic to the plot, not a cop out. 3.5 stars.
dgalvan - Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 11:22pm (USA Central)
Re: Star Trek V: The Final Frontier

This film gets a bad rap. I won't claim it's among the best of the Star Trek films. But I like it better than Nemesis and Insurrection. I think I like it better than Star Trek 1: The Motion Picture, too. I'm probably a bit biased since its the first Star Trek movie I saw in the theater.

Here are some reasons I like it:

1. It has humor.
The jokes don't land as well as they did in Star Trek IV, but they are not terrible. It's a more "human-relatable" movie than several other Trek films.

2. The "big three".
The camaraderie between Kirk, McCoy, and Spock is a welcome re-visit that helps close out Spock's character arc of re-adjusting after being reborn, which started really in Star Trek IV. It gave me a warm feeling and it made me think of how William Shatner was probably waxing nostalgic in having so many scenes with the three characters that really were the heart of Star Trek. "God I liked him better before he died!"

3. The whole God thing was really not a bad plot line.
In many ways it was reminiscent of numerous TOS (and a few early TNG) episodes that dealt with a near-omnipotent alien entity masquerading as something else. Actually this entity reminded me of the one they encountered in the first episode of the Animated Series (that one also tried to use the enterprise to escape a dead star/planet, episode title: Beyond the Farthest Star). I suppose for people not familiar with TOS, this may have seemed like a copout from dealing with issues of religion, but really this plot line makes a lot of sense in Star Trek context. It was never about religion, it was about the dangers of thinking too passionately instead of thinking critically.

4. It has a good underlying message:
While it could be argued that Vulcans rely too much on logic, Sybok is the embodiment of going too far in the other direction. He embraces passion and emotion too much, without drawing enough on the cool dampening of rationality. He's also a pseudo-hedonist, convincing people that the bad part of their pasts should be forcibly forgotten and banished from your psyche ("release your pain"). Kirk provides the useful counterpoint: "I need my pain! It makes me who I am!"). This film explores some of the consequences of passionately leaping before you look. (Sybok finally sees the error in his ways, having been taken with legends and seeing what he wanted to see instead of what actually was.)

5. It further develops Kirk's character.
In Star Trek II (yes, probably the best), Kirk went from bemoaning his old age to the greatest ending line of the ST movies: "How do you feel Jim?. . . Young. I feel young."
Now here Kirk goes from bemoaning the solitary nature of the life he chose as a Starship captain (climbing El Capitan alone, saying he knows he'll die alone, telling Bones and Spock that "Men like us don't have families."), to realizing the people close to him are indeed his family, and that he never really has been alone. ("I lost a brother once. . . lucky for me I got him back." "I thought you said men like us don't have families?. . . . I was wrong."

6. It introduced that snazzy Klingon theme music.
$G - Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 11:05pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S7: It's Only a Paper Moon

I like this episode quite a bit. Nog has had a hell of a story. He's one of my favourite characters on the show, and, like everyone's said, it's awesome that DS9 got to the point that it can swing an episode like this. I'd argue that Nog ISN'T just a recurring character, but it may only seem like he's been around more than he has because he's gotten such rich material. (Serious question: outside of some first season shenanigans, has there ever been a bad Nog plot?)

"Paper Moon" is also the best Vic appearance so far (and maybe even moving forward too). I like to think that when Nog asks Vic if he dreams, he evades answering because the answer is... well, "no". A dream is only a dream if it isn't just an extension of the program and thus under Vic's control. The answer would have shattered both characters' illusions at that point and was better left unsaid. In the end, when Nog sets up 26/7 activation for Vic, Vic gets to live a "regular" life now too. Yeah it raises a lot of questions about Vic's nature, but it's a sweet moment in and of itself.

This is quite a strong episode and nails exactly what it's trying to accomplish. Though 45 minutes might be a *bit* pat for this story, Ron Moore is really, really good at crafting unique scenes that don't revert to perfunctory cliches to move the story to its 45-minute deadline. All his episodes seem to have a vitality that puts them above a lot of other episodes.

On top of that, Eisenberg nails all of his scenes - especially the climactic one. Awesome!

I only really have two minor nitpicks: The party for Rom's promotion. There's no reason why someone couldn't have called on Nog. Wouldn't Rom have tried to stop by and invite him personally? And Jake, whom I've really begun to dislike. He has nothing to add to the show anymore, and it just feels like a waste for that to be the case. He seemed particularly insensitive in this episode, and it didn't reflect well on him IMO.

Other than those gripes, 3-1/2 stars from me!

---

On another note:

You know what I like so far about Season 7? It's probably the same thing that puts a lot of people off. But it's that S7 is pretty dedicated to fleshing out its recurring and brand new characters before the end. In S7's first 10 episodes, we've seen entire episodes given to Weyoun, Damar, Nog, Vic, Ezri, Garak, Martok and Dukat. Even "AR-558" had a heavy contingent of guest characters. This has relegated Kira, Worf, Odo, etc, to merely being pieces of episodes rather than the focuses. I understand why such a concentrated amount of secondary character episodes rubs people wrong, but to me it just makes the series feel alive.

At this point the show now feels very different than it did a couple of seasons prior. The formula of the regulars just doing their jobs and encountering new problems is pretty much non-existent. Ops doesn't get a lot of screen time, and there's hardly been any anomalies or station crises in what seems like forever. I've never NOT seen S7 on DVD, so I've never had to endure week-long waits between episodes. That probably colours my opinion of it all, but what can I say? I'm really digging this.
Sonya - Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 9:49pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S3: Explorers

I loved the father/son plot, and I loved Gul Dukat's grudging yet gracious congratulations and display of fireworks. One of the things I value about this show is Sisko and Jake's relationship. Aside from a few comedies (e.g., the Cosby Show), how often do we see strong, positive relationships between African American fathers and sons in the media?
Skeptical - Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 8:04pm (USA Central)
Re: VOY S1: State of Flux

Best episode so far! State of Flux is a good name for the episode. It really does show how unstable everything is. Even though I knew who the traitor was, the show still did a good job of casting doubt. I agree with Jammer; Seska's pleas of innocence were very convincing, all things considered. When she went to the Kazon ship to retrieve the replicator, it is perfectly logical that she's doing it to remove evidence... AND perfectly logical that she did it to prove her innocence. We already knew she doesn't play by the rules, and we already knew she thought this was a good way to extract the replicator...

And then there was the revelation that she was possibly a Cardassian. Honestly, I sort of wish that she had stayed on. After all, being a Cardassian spy doesn't make you a traitor... And hey, having a lone Cardassian stuck with the humans worked on DS9, maybe it would work here? But it does make sense that she would then be the least willing to play by Janeway's rules. So I guess I understand why they went the way they did. Having Seska be a Cardassian spy yet not actually betraying the crew would have been a risky plot to take, but perhaps not the most realistic.

In any case, one thing I liked about this episode was that Seska wasn't being a mustache twirling villain here. Her motives were clear; protect Voyager. It was almost noble in a way. And now the reason the Kazon never attacked Voyager since Caretaker is made clear. Seska's rant at Janeway after being caught had a certain amount of logic to it. I'm not saying she's right, but it does certainly make sense to her. And it again touches on a theme that has come up multiple times in the first season: should you sacrifice your principles to get home? In fact, here it's not even about getting home. Should you sacrifice your principles in order to stay alive in a dangerous world? Seska obviously has no problem with it, Janeway obviously won't. And that's why Seska directed a lot of her rant at Chakotay.

Once again we get a good Chakotay episode. Once again he is torn between his Maquis loyalty and his desire to keep this a Federation ship. And this time, his Maquis loyalty was wrong. And we get to see him get punched in the gut repeatedly. I liked that he was taking his frustrations out on Tuvok. He may have accepted Tuvok's betrayal by now, but he hasn't forgotten it. And he's perfectly entitled to be frustrated and venting some steam here.

So yeah, I enjoyed it. This was a show that was truly Voyager's and didn't feel like a bad TNG rerun. It may have come a bit too early in the season, but really, even that isn't too bad. We would have been wondering about the Kazon eventually. So maybe it's best that Seska was revealed so soon.
Robert - Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 10:52am (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S7: Field of Fire

@Grumpy - That makes sense, but Solok was in the Academy with Sisko and is definitely an officer. So there's no subcontracting from the Vulcans there. Unless he's in charge of a subcontracted Vulcan ship?
Grumpy - Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 10:09am (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S7: Field of Fire

Robert: "...it bothered me that Starfleet allows an all Vulcan crew like that."

When an all-Vulcan crew on a Starfleet ship was first mentioned in TOS "The Immunity Syndrome," I figured it was some sort of subcontracting or whatnot. Like, Russia is a partner in the ISS, but Russia could still fly all-Russian crews. Or, more directly parallel, NASA could borrow a Soyuz to fly an all-American crew.
Robert - Tue, Oct 21, 2014, 8:55am (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S7: Field of Fire

My 2 cents about Vulcans on DS9

1) I liked Sakonna and Quark from "The Maquis" episodes. Voyager made it painfully clear that nobody considers a Vulcan maquis to be weird (else Starfleet's choice of putting Tuvok undercover on Chakotay's ship would be the stupidest undercover operation in Trek history), so I don't actually think Sakonna is subversive unless Voyager is as well. And she's a thief? So what? As DS9 makes clear "freedom fighters" do illegal things for good reasons. We're meant to side with the Bajoran resistance and against the Maquis, but they both see themselves as freedom fighters.

2) The Vulcan captain from "Take Me Out" was a Vulcan supremacist. The idea of a Vulcan who thinks Vulcans are superior is really not that weird given the cannon material. This episode would have played less racistly weird if he was not in Starfleet though. I liked the episode but it bothered me that Starfleet allows an all Vulcan crew like that. I'd have preferred a different backstory than meeting at the academy and a Vulcan science ship or something. It would have been more palatable to me.

3) I think this episode was kind of sucky, we really didn't need the can of worms this gun opens up, the extra Ezri episode, the out-of-character take on Joran, etc. But the Vulcan wasn't really a problem. Vulcans can experience PTSD and Vulcans can certainly go nuts and have emotions (see every third Tuvok episode :P).

I can see how Vulcan villains being a pattern on DS9 might seem intentional, but I think 3 in over 150 episodes may just be coincidental. Although there were 2 this season. But scratching this episode would have helped a great number of issues this season, so I'm in favor.
Phillip - Mon, Oct 20, 2014, 11:57pm (USA Central)
Re: TNG S6: Suspicions

Why does beverly care about a ferengi's shuttle test? That made no sense to me. I also don't know why people wouldn't accept a ferengi scientist. Space travel has brought interstellar commerce to the ferengi economy. From a profit standpoint a ferengi scientist would be respected by other ferengi's.

As for the feminist aspect of the later seasons I agree they change troi and beverly. They mainly change troi. Once she puts on that uniform all of a sudden she changes. Look at the episode disaster. She was in charge and didn't know anything obrien was talking about. Then look at timescape and she's throwing out technobabble left and right. I love troi in the early seasons even though she kinda sucks at being a counselor too. But once modern day political correctness changed her character I couldn't take it.
zzybaloobah - Mon, Oct 20, 2014, 11:14pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S7: Field of Fire

TR-116: Prototype, then ABANDONDED? Yeah, right. What a weapon! Can you say "assasination?" Fire from concealment, no energy discharge? And range limited by transporter? (Why is being on Bajor -- the guy Ezri almost stabbed -- an alibi?) The defensive advantage of firing while completely concealed gives it a huge advantage over a phaser in a straight-up firefight. Maybe Section 31 forced it to be "abandonded".

Um... I like Ezri, and I liked this episode. But, given where the series is, can we focus on someone other than Ezri for a while?

@Elliott
So, all other Trek (execept ENT) treat Vulcans with awe, so DS9 must be the anomaly? ENT and DS9 represent (by series) 40% of Trek. And, as pointed out above, Kirk (human) is the ideal of TOS. So, we've got:
2 series Vulcans thumbs up (TNG, Voy)
1 series Vulcans neutral (TOS)
2 series Vulcans thumbs down (ENT, DS9)
(though I hated what ENT did to Vulcans)
Hardly evidence to consider DS9 "subversive", or to say that Vulcans were Gene's ideal.
(BTW, who gives a flying f**** what's Gene's vision was? For a fairly obvious agnostic, when did Gene become god?)
One REAL fault with Trek is that other species are pretty one-dimensional: Ferengi are greedy, Klingons war like, Romulans treacherous, and Vulcans logical. It's an improvement to see some non-logical Vulcans for a change. Why does DS9 focus on the non-logical Vulcans? It makes good TV.

$G - Mon, Oct 20, 2014, 9:53pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S7: Covenant

This isn't a good episode. I think Dukat's belief in the pah wraiths is... kind of interesting, but it also strains my patience. Yes, I believe that he'd do all the things he does here. But does it really supply any storytelling value? It's always fascinating to watch Dukat panic when things go south ("Sacrifice of Angels" and "Waltz") but I'm not really satisfied by this arc he's on. I think his story value reached its peak in "Waltz".

But even if I did buy into Dukat's direction, this episode would still feel rushed and hollow. Too many scenes rely on characters trying to talk Kira into the cult while Kira (and the audience) are calling BS. Too many miracles are left unquestioned which makes the Bajorans stupid rather than interesting. I know that this kind of thing happens, but it also has to be treated just so as to actually be interesting and not infuriating to watch.

Oh, and Dukat can talk an alien baby into being a miracle on the spot, but he couldn't have talked his way out of the pill scam? He already had a captive audience willing to sacrifice themselves (and their babies!). It wouldn't have been hard.

I suppose he didn't have time, though, because of his own contrivance of calling the dang Defiant to pick Kira up.

I'm still reserving judgement on S7 Dukat until it's over. I'm still erring on the side of giving it all the benefit of the doubt, but it's all hard for me swallow. Especially so when the episode is as poorly realized as this.

There are moments I like, though:

-The Bajoran woman giving birth puts the conception around the three-month season gap, which is right after Dukat's experience with the wraith. This makes sense because, IIRC, Bajoran gestation is only 5 months. I forget which episode mentions this, though. If I'm right, that's some eagle eye continuity, writers!

-Kira's vedek friend probably started the cult. As mentioned above, Dukat only worked his way to the top. How very in character.

-I like that this cult is partially based on outrage that the Prophets never intervened during the Occupation. I also like the implication (along with other things we know) that being "of Bajor" doesn't mean the Prophets care about the lifeforms on the planet. Do I care about lower lifeforms on Earth, or even in my own city? Only in so far as they taste good in sauce.

-Kira calls out Dukat on his BS from "Wrongs". He suggested then that Meru left Taban for him. As Kira saw - not the case! Nice try, Dukat.

Still, "Covenant" is poorly realized on its own merits. 1-1/2 stars from me. 2 if I were feeling charitable (but I'm not).
Jack - Mon, Oct 20, 2014, 3:45pm (USA Central)
Re: VOY S3: Macrocosm

Neelix probably could've mitigated much of the effect of the slimesquirt if he'd taken off his jacket and shirt. Sure no one wants to see that, but if its life and death...
Eli - Mon, Oct 20, 2014, 2:15pm (USA Central)
Re: ENT S1: The Andorian Incident

After watching Shockwave, I have re-evaluated Archer's decision to share information with the Andorians. I still wouldn't go so far as to agree with the decision; I think the Vulcans are their allies first and foremost. But, in the context of the show's thoughtful idealism, his decision is not without merits. I think also I was overly critical to call him reckless. Clearly the relationship between humans and Vulcans is a dynamic one at this point.
Eli - Mon, Oct 20, 2014, 2:02pm (USA Central)
Re: ENT S1: Breaking the Ice

This episode showcases Enterprise's strengths. These strengths include dialogue, character interactions, subtle comic moments, cultural misunderstandings that are addressed without being perfectly resolved, an endearing open mindedness to scientific discovery, and a respectful awe of outer space. I'm a big fan of this series.

I see some commentators have criticized Archer's etiquette, or even his intelligence. I think it's interesting that everyone perceives intelligence differently. However, I have never thought of Archer as being unintelligent. On the contrary, I find him to be an exceedingly thoughtful and reasonable man. I also find his curiosity, his sincerity and his personal directness to be positive traits. Bakula does an excellent job in the role as well. I think he has good intentions in the dinner conversation with Captain Vanik. He made one comment at the very end out of exhaustion. This reaction was not prudent; however, he was frustrated that his every attempt to be polite had failed. Vanik was much more rude in his response. Yet, in the context of the show the dinner scene is enlightening rather than simply frustrating. I agree with those who think the scene is successful.

Lastly, the scene where we finally learn T'Pol's personal dilemma and we hear Tucker and T'Pol exchange cultural viewpoints is well done. The final scene with T'Pol and the pie is a nice touch as well.
Elliott - Mon, Oct 20, 2014, 1:07pm (USA Central)
Re: ENT S1: Dear Doctor

Sean, I am willing to do a little critical thinking in favour of an episode of a show which went out of its way to do the same, when it usually contented itself to be brainless, pandering schlock. The fact that you have yet to move an inch away from the dichotomous "allowing an entire species to die for no reason" refrain is testament to the theory that DS9 was and is hip to a contemporary "feeling" of moral disambiguation, but truly lacked the conviction to test a critical moral mind. That's the real irony, that a show like Enterprise, which is buried in simplistic storytelling, should surpass DS9 in the very subject that show's proponents tout over and over.

However, I too am done with this debate. I have utterly failed to convince you to even frame the argument over this episode in objective terms, let alone compare those objects in a proper debate, so there seems to be little reason to go further.
Sean - Mon, Oct 20, 2014, 11:28am (USA Central)
Re: ENT S1: Dear Doctor

I'm pretty much done with this debate at this point. But I did just want to say before I left that I find it ironic that Elliott, you complain about DS9 all the time. Something like In the Pale Moonlight in which Sisko finds himself an accessory to murder and does other nasty things. You complain about DS9 all the time, but you bend over backwards in mental gymnastics not normally found outside of creationists to justify something far worse then DS9 has ever done: allowing an entire species to die for no reason. DS9 never did that. Indeed, when there was an entire species dying for what Section 31 thought to be a good reason, the show actively condemned that. Also when an entire species was dying from the Quickening for no reason, the show actively condemned that.

So yeah, that's all. I just find it ironic.
Robert - Mon, Oct 20, 2014, 8:33am (USA Central)
Re: TNG S5: Ethics

I actually liked the choice of Riker and, in the very next episode, Worf risks his career to go down to the planet with Riker and save Soren.

When Riker was considered for the Ares Worf wanted to go with him and felt certain Riker would accept, especially since he viewed it as a dangerous mission.

In another episode (can't remember which) they were playing one of those Klingon holodeck programs together.

They weren't close friends perhaps in a human sense (like O'Brien and Bashir) but I think Worf felt Riker was the closest he had nearby to a "Klingon Warrior". It made a certain amount of sense.

Picard was his commanding officer.
Ian - Mon, Oct 20, 2014, 12:26am (USA Central)
Re: VOY S4: Random Thoughts

I do not like how Tuvok comes off very weak , at first, in his confrontation with the thought criminals.
Also, why did not the ship simply not be allowed to leave and take their bad thoughts with them?
$G - Mon, Oct 20, 2014, 12:23am (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S7: The Siege of AR-558

Reading the comments in this thread reminds me why so many Trek species come from Planets of Hats. Humans who lose sight of their values while trapped on a war-torn moon? A Ferengi who isn't greedy for profit? A Jem'Hadar who isn't completely loyal to the Changelings? A Cardassian who opposed the Bajoran occupation? A vedek who doesn't believe in grabbing earlobes?

It's almost as if DS9 has been suggesting since day one that a population is made up of individuals and not pieces of a one-note hive mind.

Snark aside, this is a fantastic Dominion war episode - maybe the best the show has ever done. Also, like Jammer said, the hidden star may be Quark. He works so well because of how much we've seen of his values to this point. Could any parent (or uncle in this case) watch their child casually go to battle like this without saying what Quark said? I really, really love the scene with Quark watching over Nog and then shooting that Jem'Hadar. Nog would have died if he was alone, but he never would be alone as long as his uncle was there. Also, notice how Quark doesn't even mention whatever purpose Zek gave him. Awesome Quark story here, of all things. Shimerman plays the hell out of it.

4 stars easy. Top 10 episode of the series easy.
$G - Sun, Oct 19, 2014, 11:03pm (USA Central)
Re: DS9 S7: Once More Unto the Breach

I'm with Jammer on this one. I wish we could have seen something of the battle. Maybe the crew sees Kor's ship approaching the fleet before the viewscreen fizzles out of proximity? I don't know if that would have worked either, though...

Like another poster above said, I'm not going to armchair direct this one. I like everything that happened in this one... but I just wish it didn't end with the crew just standing on the bridge like that.

Anyway, this is a solid episode. The standout scene is Martok and crew mocking Kor in the mess hall. I found it tough to watch, but in an effective way. I like how Darok simply has none of it (Darok is a nice addition to this episode, actually), and I love Kor's reply.

Also, kudos to the FX team once again. For a show that's been giving us lots of inventive battle encounters, we get yet another gem. In the last 10 or so episodes, we've had a Defiant-class ship getting destroyed by a Dominion supership, an epic three-fleet battle at Chin'toka, a bird of prey inducing a solar flare to take out a Dominion shipyard, a chase through an icy asteroid belt, and now a Klingon assault on a Cardassian ground base. And, of course, we all knpw what's coming next. It's awesome.

Anyway, a solid 3 stars for this one.
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