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Wed, Dec 13, 2017, 6:15am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S1: Mad Idolatry

and when I saw debates.. I'm talking about structured 3 hour long debates where the religious person has a chance to make their case.. and not even a simple case.. they can portray their argument however they want to. And yet I've never seen one that gets past the idea that they just want to believe, or that it's an argument form personal incredulity or and argument from ignorance.. they all go down the seam path
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Wed, Dec 13, 2017, 6:08am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S1: Mad Idolatry

Ironic.. that religious people HATE when a show makes everything in their religion simple. They hate it. Yet I've watched MANY artiest vs believer debates.. and every argument by the theist is so simple, and so easy to take down.. they HAVE NO ARGUMENT .. no real argument.

Have you all ever considered that your religions are as simple as these episodes make them out to be.. (or at least nearly as simple) ??
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Wed, Dec 13, 2017, 5:55am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S1: Mad Idolatry

So in addition to be a shorthanded allegory.. the whole reason Seth made the statue so identical to Kelly is to point out that people today seem to all have the same look for Jesus as if they knew what he looked like and they'd recognize him if they would see him. I love that

@Samuel. that is unfair I'm so sorry that religion is so simple that it can't stand up[ to surface scrutiny. By your rationale any important issue brought up in Trek is actually a strawman ..

Get a handle bro
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Tue, Dec 12, 2017, 11:28pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S1: Mad Idolatry

So the next month the civilization will be gone, at the rate it evolves. So who cares? The plot contrivance is a pointless excuse to make religion a strawman. Yaaaaaaaaaaawn...
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Tue, Dec 12, 2017, 7:14pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S1: Mad Idolatry

"I think we are getting two concepts confused here, faith and religion. I felt the episode was more of an allegory on how the latter can be corrupted and perverted due to sinister motives, like power."

What? The episode was not about that at all.
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Tue, Dec 12, 2017, 6:28pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S1: Mad Idolatry

Seconding Shannon's excellent comment. I'd hope both religious and non-religious people would be able to agree that individuals who cynically instrumentalize religion as a tool for power and control - as in the case of Winn, and the murderous priest in this episode - unfortunately exist in every belief system (whether cults or major religions, as well as "political religions" like communism and extreme nationalism). On this front, I guess the episode would have worked better for me without the parallel-earth touches - it was too unsubtle.
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Tue, Dec 12, 2017, 6:26pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S7: Sub Rosa

Definitely one of the dumber TNG episodes. The premise of it is all wrong -- it's not good sci-fi -- it's something that belongs on some other show about the supernatural. The idea of some anaphasic life form in some kind of symbiotic relationship with the Howard women isn't bad, but the idea that it turns into the perfect lover gets beyond ridiculous.

And what does it say about Beverly's character -- that she falls for a ghost after experiencing something like sex and resigns her commission in Star Fleet?? Not a good message by Trek standards of empowering women.

I would say, comparing it with some other turkeys in the Trek cannon, that I wasn't bored by the episode. It wasn't as stupid as "Spock's Brain" or "And the Children Shall Lead" and it was no where near as bad as "Profit and Lace". It started off ok for the 1st 20 or so mins. when I was just wondering what the plot's going to be. Also not a bad idea for a colony to be created based on Scotland and the setup/house/scene wasn't bad.

Also, I thought McFadden put on a decent acting performance -- her anticipation of Ronin on the Enterprise, her orgasm in the house -- it's just that the whole premise for the acting is pretty stupid.

The ending is a shitshow with your typical cliches: of course the grandma pops up in the coffin, Crusher phasers Ronin as he approaches her. There was also the seriously Scottish dude warning about the haunted house and the heirloom light. It's not good when Trek resorts to portraying stuff typically associated with other shows and then tries to wrap it up in sci-fi (anaphasic energy).

1 star for "Sub Rosa" -- poorly conceived and actually a bad character episode for Beverly Crusher. Ronin was annoying as well. This is a major gaffe for the writer(s) though as I think they thought they had something worthy here, but it turns out to be an insult to Trek fans.
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Tue, Dec 12, 2017, 6:18pm (UTC -6)
Re: ENT S4: These Are the Voyages...

I'd really thought Terra Prime was the last episode, as I'd been watching on Netflix, and the next episode teaser showed Riker, so I assumed it was suggesting I watch TNG next. When I realised my error I watched unawares of the hullabaloo that surrounded it. It was an interesting idea, and had some good scenes, but it short changed everyone as a finale. Such a shame. Having persisted with it and followed Jammer and all the comments, I would have liked to have seen its improving quality continue. Oh well. DS9 next.
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Tue, Dec 12, 2017, 5:18pm (UTC -6)
Re: ENT S1: Vox Sola

Loved this episode. So glad the doc didn't want the Intelligent being harmed. It's not an animal so should be treated with respect unless it gets hostile.
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Tue, Dec 12, 2017, 4:31pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S3: The Bonding

What's striking about mid-period TNG, when compared to other Treks, is how deadly serious it was and how stark its long periods of silence were. TNG at this time oft cultivated a sense of quiet gravity - people spend much of this episode literally mentally dwelling on things - that you don't really see elsewhere in Trek.
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Tue, Dec 12, 2017, 4:24pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S1: Mad Idolatry

Outsider 65 said: "Stop constantly derailing the conversation with your own bigotry."

All the religious conversations on this thread have been respectful and polite. You have been the only person to get inordinately hot and bothered. And a questioning and challenging and even overthrowing of organised religion and its oft twisted grasp on politics, culture and thinking (the tacit Just World et al dogmas of most religions unconciously rubber stamp countless forms of systemic exploitation), is not "bigotry", but a kind of slow progress.
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Tue, Dec 12, 2017, 4:23pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S1: When the Bough Breaks

It does seem strange to me, that given the multi-ethnicity and multi-species acceptance that drives much of the narrative for this show, that of all the children taken were all white. No blacks, no Aisians, no one of color. I’m not saying that there was a racist intent but it does seem odd.
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Tue, Dec 12, 2017, 3:51pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S7: Parallels

Pretty good episode with a slow-building mystery and great ending. I liked that it was centered on Worf and not Picard or Riker and that it wasn't a "Klingon episode". Interesting to see Worf in a situation where he confronts doubts and how the character reacts to it -- so that part was well done including how he deals with finding out he was married to Troi.

So it's a cool concept that Geordi's visor triggers a different reality for Worf after going through the rift. The downside is the technobabble and solution to fixing the rift -- sure we'll accept that what Data/Wesley say works perfectly (those 2 never get it wrong). The idea that parallel universes exist with all kinds of different realities and switching between them is good creative sci-fi.

The ending is what made this episode for me. Seeing the rift get messed with and all those Enterprises popping up each living their own reality including 1 where an Enterprise with Riker in control is getting kicked by the Borg was awesome. I wish they had spent more time on that -- it was done too quickly. With all those Enterprises, locating the right one and then having to fire on the damaged Enterprise, it played out too quickly and conveniently for me.

3 stars for "Parallels" -- the strongest episode of a crap TNG S7 so far. Braga has come up with a winner here. What's also well thought out is that as the episode wore on, when Worf would shift realities, the changes would become bigger and bigger -- he'd be further along the timeline so more realities have had time to unfold, just like a tree branching off. Entertaining ending after a somewhat typical mysterious TNG beginning.
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Tue, Dec 12, 2017, 3:47pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S6: Spirit Folk

Loved this episode. I wish they had 10 more like it.
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Tue, Dec 12, 2017, 2:26pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S6: Statistical Probabilities

This episode had a lot of potential and some moments but ended up feeling, disappointingly, way too black-and-white, good vs. evil-goodies vs. baddies.
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Tue, Dec 12, 2017, 1:32pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S1: Code of Honor

Just watching this again and I noticed something. Not weighing in on the racist/sexist discussion, my observation is far more important: At the start, why did they get beamed into the cargo bay instead of the transporter room??
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Tue, Dec 12, 2017, 12:40pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S1: Mad Idolatry

This episode was surprisingly tame for a Seth McFarlane piece dealing with religion. The head guy was portrayed as being dedicated to truth, even when it was unpleasant, and the people even claimed religion was a necessary part of their planet's evolution. Wow.

I'm pretty sick of seeing militant atheists circle jerk it in the comments of any episode of anything on this site that portrays religious people in a negative light. We get it, you hate people who have different beliefs than you. Shut up already. You're worse than the fundies. At least they're trying to do right by others in their own worldview. You're just spreading hate and bigotry and claiming those people are inferior animals or even suggesting genocide in some of the comments I've seen. I'm not sure what standards you're going by, but you are definitely not superior to anyone. Star Trek, mass media as a whole, is for EVERYONE, it's not some exclusive club that's militants only and everyone else needs to be constantly bashed because how dare they watch my precious sci fi when it's not for them those dirty animals. I know a lot of people who enjoy Trek, many of them religious, and their interpretations and opinions are not any less valid for it. Stop constantly derailing the conversation with your own bigotry.
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Tue, Dec 12, 2017, 12:12pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S1: Mad Idolatry

I think we are getting two concepts confused here, faith and religion. I felt the episode was more of an allegory on how the latter can be corrupted and perverted due to sinister motives, like power. No one can deny that throughout our history religion has been twisted by those seeking power in order to control the masses. In medieval times the Pope had more power than kings, because all he had to do was excommunicate an uncooperative king and that king all of the sudden found himself out of power, or worse yet dead. We see that same behavior today in Islam, whereby there are those perverting that religion to kill others in the name of Allah... There is nothing wrong with having faith in God and believing in the core tenets of Christianity, or whatever your faith may be. It's when humans with nefarious motives get involved that religion gets its bad reputation. MacFarlane shows that when the Kelly religion "priest" sees the errors of his people's ways and wants to tell the people, but is killed by a power-hungry surrogate who wants to continue using the religion to control people.
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Tue, Dec 12, 2017, 6:37am (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S1: Mad Idolatry

I don't understand how anyone can consider this episode (or TNG's Who Watches the Watchers?) a remotely convincing critique of religion.

I find it very plausible that primitive people could worship people with far more advanced technology (e.g. look up the cargo cult). But unless one is arguing that Jesus or Mohammed or Moses was using technology from the far future, I can't see the relevance to the actual religious beliefs that people on Earth have.

I enjoyed this episode and WWTW but I think anyone who comes away from them thinking they've seen a critique of religion is seeing what they want to see and hasn't thought it through.
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Tue, Dec 12, 2017, 4:39am (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S1: Prime Factors

One of the few Voyager S1 episodes I had missed and just caught it recently, overall not very impressed with Season 1 but this one is a standout episode in my opinion, it all works really well and shows a lot of thought, it's the first time where the characters really open up and the situation of Voyager being stranded in the delta quadrant is used to motivate a good story with a nice 'prime directive' dilemma turned completely on its head in that the Starfleet crew are on the receiving end of a law/directive that it always a good way of introducing and exploring moral dilemmas, it's all really tight and nicely paced writing and plot development that stays true to the developed characters which are all performed well, but especially Roxanne Dawson, Tim Russ and Kate Mulgrew.

Nice work - it's a pity there wasn't more of this in Voyager.

Still stands up as quite a decent bit of TV 20years later and that's a credit to the writers and cast and crew.
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Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 11:35pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S4: Unforgettable

Every single thing about this episode it completely horrible. Every...single...thing.

Zero stars.
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Derek D
Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 10:54pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S4: Reunion

I LOVE the episodes involving Klingon politics. For me this one is somewhere between 3.5 and 4, so let's call it 3.75. Hell, it really is a classic--4 stars.
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Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 9:58pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S1: Mad Idolatry

@peter g.

'Something cannot be a satire of something (like Catholicism) unless it actually understands that thing. I assure you that Seth doesn't, and further, that he couldn't care less to understand it.'

I see. You know Seth well do you? Best friends are you?

Maybe you should watch the episode before assuming what MacFarlane was trying to say about religion, or what he does or doesn't understand, or care to understand. You sould like the one who doesn't understand, or care to. Your initials aren't OTDP are they?

I never got a sense of this episode being anti-religious, and it certainly didn't say anything about anyone being psychotic for being religious.

It was far more about how they inadvertently affected this culture and how they can try to undo the effect to avoid contamination. But, in fact, at the end the people on the planet say that they would have turned out the same anyway. And that religion was virtually a necessitiy.

'We've been waiting for the phasing to occur again so we could meet you.
Our society has become a spacefaring culture with ships spread out across the galaxy.
In our home universe, that is.
But we wouldn't have gotten where we are without growing pains.
Our planet worshipped you as a deity for many centuries.
But had it not been you, the mythology would have found another face.
It's a part of every culture's evolution.
It's one of the stages of learning.
And eventually, it brought us here.'

I don't see how the message of this episode is anti-religious in any way. It's very nearly the opposite.

Try watching it before assuming things based on what you think some person you don't know would write.

And by the way, this isn't Star Trek, so the attitude towards religion in that is irrelevant as far as The Orville goes.
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Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 9:48pm (UTC -6)
Re: ORV S1: Mad Idolatry

I'll buy that when I see politicians actually admitting to being atheists.

@Lynos: I watched that YouTube talk. Really interesting, thanks! Seems like a really good, happy group of creators.
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Mon, Dec 11, 2017, 9:47pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S2: Invasive Procedures

2.5 stars

I liked the idea of “ a crisis among a storm” and everything but the main story involving Dax—that was flat and boring but Quark, the Klingons etc was enjoyable
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