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Nivek
Sat, Oct 1, 2016, 11:21am (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S3: The Mark of Gideon

The Mark of Gideon was good because of the issue of overpopulation, and Odona is/was so very attractive. I wouldn't have minded and empty ship with her.
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Peter G.
Sat, Oct 1, 2016, 8:45am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Far Beyond the Stars

@ RJ, "It would have been generations since racism would have been a problem on earth so why, why why why why would be mean so much to Cisco?"

It's been 'generations' since WWII. Do you think it 'makes no sense' that the Jews are still concerned about the Holocaust? Do you think in a hundred years they'll be 'over it'? Not a chance. It's been *centuries* since the Spanish Inquisition and even more since the crusades. Do you not notice that people are still railing about these? But it "makes no sense", according to you. There are no crusades now, and no inquisition.

But we can bypass modern comparisons and look at Sisko himself. It was established already in S3 that Sisko has an interest in history; specifically, the history of oppressed peoples. He knew all about the Bell Riots, he had an apparent interest in the Bajoran history of spaceflight and how the species that was more advanced than the Cardassians in some ways was the one to be subjugated, and so now we're hearing from him about black history. Should this come as a surprise, since the casting of the show is distinctly *about* a member of a previously oppressed race helping a recently injured race to heal?

"Far Beyond the Stars" is about social and political pressure to keep someone's identity down. Whether that means being black, where one has to lie low and pretend not to be a human being, or that means being the emissary, where Starfleet and other forces want Sisko to dismiss his identity - in both cases it's about being willing to stand alone, if need be, and to refuse to deny who you are. There is nothing timely about that message; it will always be true.
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dave
Sat, Oct 1, 2016, 3:12am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Blaze of Glory

We don't have replicators so hard to know. However, enjoyment of food has a lot to do with the brain. If you THINK this tomato from your garden will taste better than the one from your friends garden; you will likely taste it and feel that way. Replicated wine or chicken may be 100% identical; however, the knowledge that it is 'not real", can affect perception when tasting it
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RJ
Sat, Oct 1, 2016, 1:51am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Far Beyond the Stars

Wow, wrote my above comment on a WP and copied and past, it changed Ben Sisko to Ben Cisco on me, I guess it wanted me to think that the good captain was a company.
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RJ
Sat, Oct 1, 2016, 1:49am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S6: Far Beyond the Stars

I wasn't a big fan of this episode for one big reason: in the setting IT MAKES NO SENSE. Why would racism matter to Ben Cisco? Just like in the seventh season's Badda-Bang episode, this episode makes it look like Cisco has race issues to deal with, when in reality, it would have never existed for him ever. It would have been generations since racism would have been a problem on earth so why, why why why why would be mean so much to Cisco? Do people get that upset about something that has never effected them and hasn't impacted their life in any way? Earth in Star Trek is an Eden, Cisco would have never had to deal with human on human racism. It should be so far removed from his life and thinking, being only the stuff of ancient history, that it should not have a single emotional impact on him.
As for being social commentary about race, the whole episode is forced and is twenty five years too late.
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Outsider65
Sat, Oct 1, 2016, 12:55am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country

I thought the movie did show that Spock's forced mind meld on Valeris was a huge violation of her person. Look again at the crew's faces as the camera pans on them-most of them are horrified, Uhura looks almost like she's witnessing a rape. Spock and Valeris are both nearly in tears afterwards, it's clear he didn't want to have to do it and she's been horribly violated. No one says anything because he did what he had to, and none of them were Vulcan, so even though they could sort of sense how horrible what he did was, they probably didn't truly know the depth of it. What could they say, really? "Captain, I wish you hadn't had to mindrape that girl in order to save the galaxy"? What would that accomplish? I thought the more subtle reaction shots of the crew, as well as Spock and Valeris' reactions, we're enough to drive the point home.
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dave
Sat, Oct 1, 2016, 12:51am (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Ferengi Love Songs

always a good laugh to go back and see Jammer ripping on Ferengi episodes.

Yeah, he hates them. We get it.....
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Outsider65
Fri, Sep 30, 2016, 11:49pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek III: The Search For Spock

I wondered, if it was so important to bring Spock's body back to Vulcan, why didn't the crew know so? Surely it would have been stated as part of his operating contract, or Saavik would have said something about Vulcans' bodies needing to be returned home for final rest. The way the film presented it, it was expected that Spock's body would be returned to his family and Sarek wasn't happy about their failure to do so.

Spock's death in the last film seemed unnecessary. There were so many people in radiation suits down there who could have gone in, or Spock could have taken a second to suit up. It seemed more rash impulsiveness than true necessity that caused his death. We were supposed to think time was so essential, only to watch Spock struggle and fumble as he fixed whatever it was he was fixing, costing precious seconds that could have been used in better preparation. Him slowly dying and Kirk watching through the glass was a truly heart wrenching moment, but Spock's decision to sacrifice himself like that didn't come off as "the only solution" so much as a knowingly suicidal impulse, a "I will go down fighting for those who matter", akin to a desperate act a cornered Kirk would pull (and probably succeed at, as Kirk seems to have some higher entity making sure his luck never truly runs out). He did it, knowing he would die, but I'm not sure if the film did a good job of showing what he did was truly necessary, and I'm uncertain if that's deliberate or not. Was Spock's death really the only way to save everyone, or was Spock blinded by his own desire to save his friends, and acting irrationally? Agape-the love of others over self, to the point of dying for them- is a powerful emotion to portray, but can be mis-written and come off as needless death or foolhardiness. His death felt more necessitated by design than truly integrated into the story. The film ends with hope, Spock's body landing on Genesis, the planet of rebirth, and already his sacrifice feels a bit cheapened, from the knowledge that he will most likely be brought back, his death a convenience of the story to make a point, rather than fully the character-defining moment it needed to be. Knowledge that Spock's death was forced into the story due to contract demands by Nimoy, rather than it arising naturally as a result of events, just confirms this feeling that his death was much too "convenient". It doesn't come off as a deliberate, well thought out development on the part of the authors, woven into the story as part of the main theme. Another character, introduced as an old friend and developed through the film, being put through the same end would still have served to fill the same thematic goal, and would perhaps have even done a better job at fulfilling this part, having been given the proper character arc. Spock's decision in the end is not part of a series-wide or even film-wide arc so much, although it could have been written as such. It comes off as just another decision, a bit shocking and out of the blue, as it does not march up with any thematic overture of the film. The story of Project Genesis is not self-sacrifice, the subplot with Kirk's son, not self-sacrifice, the fight against Khan, not self-sacrifice. This ending was not properly tied into the themes, and as such does not come off feeling like the end the story was meant to have.

Sorry for the departure into WOK discussion and the short novel, I found I have more feelings and confusion about that movie than I realized when I mentioned it. Back on topic.

We spend much time on Genesis with David, Saavik, and the naked child who would be Spock, but unfortunately very little happens there. We don't learn much about either Saavik or David, and they are clearly not that important other than as caretakers of the Spock shell. The writer's only reasons for placing Saavik there seems to be so that she can "help" him with Pon Farr. (On another tangent, why is it that he undergoes Pon Farr as a teenager this time around, when last time he didn't until much, much later? Is this supposed to be part of the Genesis effect, early onset Vulcan puberty? Or was he reborn different? Is that the normal age that they start rutting, and if so are all the men of Vulcan either married or murderers? What effect does being married/a murderer from a young age have on their society? Or do they have some sort of concubines to get around that problem... Vulcan culture is even worse for women than was previously depicted, if so.)

The threads with Kirk's son were never fully explored. He existed, and he died, but we weren't given a chance to grow attached or to care about him as a character. We lamented his death because of his relation to Kirk, rather than because we cared about him as a character in his own right. His death served to deal a blow to Kirk, nothing more. Saavik could easily have died in his place and pretty much nothing would have changed, except Kirk would have a little less motivation to fight the Klingons, but really he already had more than enough. It was almost like the writers were tying up loose ends: having no idea what to do with the character, they simply killed him off. His appearance in this story was completely unnecessary, and his absence wouldn't have made a difference. The writers probably brought him in only to kill him as a "death is inescapable, in order to revive one loved one you must sacrifice another" kind of thing, but they really didn't do a good job of that either. We barely knew the guy. Kirk seemed to barely know him. We felt for Kirk when he died, but to us the only loss was the hope that the character would develop into an important and likeable one, which given how he was used thus far, this hope was already pretty low. The loss of the Enterprise better served that purpose-we know the Enterprise. She is not a character, really, but still important, still beloved, to the audience as well as to Kirk. We know that Kirk loves the Enterprise, he loves it like the wife he could never have, and has said so many times. It is downplayed in the movies, where he has already been forced to give her up before, but we still know this. Her loss would be a devastating blow, sufficient to show one cannot regain what is lost without also losing something else. The beloved, iconic ship, blown to bits and gone, sacrificed to regain something Kirk realizes he values more. Instead, the destruction of the Enterprise comes off almost as a revenge for the death of Kirk's son. The son both he and we never knew, the lost opportunity for Kirk and the audience to learn more about himself. The Enterprise is an afterthought, overshadowed by the fact that we know that both we and Kirk should feel worse about the loss of his son, that he lost all chance to reconnect with this youth and try his hand at being the father he never could be, at growing as a person in ways he probably didn't think he could. In the wake of this lost character potential, the destruction of the Enterprise is just added melancholy rather than the deep, impacting moment it was meant to be. A huge fumble by the writers. We are left mourning the loss of potential rather than the actual death of the character, and the Enterprise blows up in the background.

The confrontation with the Klingon adversary wasn't altogether satisfying, but he was a sufficient villain, if a little too quickly cast into Mt. Doom after causing Kirk to lose both his son and the Enterprise. I liked him better here than in the My Favorite Matian movie where he was screaming about ice cream. A shallow villain, well, at least at the end. His willingness to sacrifice his loved one for the secrets of Genesis implied something more at the beginning, but he had to be offed in a dramatic struggle before too long because ultimately, this movie is about Spock, not Kirk's battles, and at the end of the day, the guy who ruined everything really can just be another grunt from the opposite side rather than an important entity of pure evil.
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Peter G.
Fri, Sep 30, 2016, 11:09pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Things Past

In theory it sounds cool for Kira to have been along for the ride. In practice, however, it would have made the story untenable. Not only would Odo's explanations of the realities of the station be partially superfluous (since Kira knew that already) but more importantly, she would have immediately noticed the inconsistency in timeline between Thrax and Odo. The structure of the episode rides on the fact that Odo is misleading the others about what really happened because he doesn't want to own up to what he did. Despite being in his mind, if any of them just happened to know better the game would be up and Odo wouldn't have the chance to basically force himself to admit what he did.

Additionally, and this isn't so minor, we're already had plenty of Kira in scenes showing disgust for Dukat, and having that happen again here would have been both overkill and a sidetrack. And yet she would have had made just this kind of disparaging comment since part of the plot involved one of them having to endure Dukat's BS.
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RandomThoughts
Fri, Sep 30, 2016, 10:00pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S1: State of Flux

Heya heya Everyone!

Upon first viewing in the 90's, I had been rooting for Seska after her impassioned plea toward the end. That she turned out to be a Cardassian spy, I felt it was a bit contrived. It was interesting, no doubt, but it just didn't feel right to me.

Now, upon viewing again after these many years, I had to wonder about something. Voyager knows more baddies are going to show up, but after getting their console/technology back, they just sit there. Were they going to scold the Kazon? (They wouldn't care, and would try to get the technology any way they could, because it was their space, after all). Were they going to attempt to question them? (Not likely they'd get any answers, because of my above note). So why did they just sit there? I'd figure they'd get the replicator back, then get the heck out of there at high warp. There was no reason to stay, except to give Seska a place to beam to. Period. Seemed silly to me they hung around until the last moment...

Overall, I really liked the episode, I just can't get past the fact they stayed right there...

Enjoy the day Everyone! RT
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Outsider65
Fri, Sep 30, 2016, 9:35pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek V: The Final Frontier

As someone pointed out the other night while we watched this film, of the big three Kelley and Nimoy have already passed on, Shatner remaining. Looks like Kirk really will die alone, in a sense. It kind of puts his somewhat melodramatic campfire confession into a darker context, considering the reality that followed.

I don't think this movie is as bad as Trekkers say it is. It probably holds closer to canon and previous continuity than ST:IV, and while the humor's more uncomfortable this time around, there are some genuine moments. The franchise would suffer from the excision of these moments.
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Joey Lock
Fri, Sep 30, 2016, 8:49pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: The Masterpiece Society

I've always liked this episode because of the idea of a closed society of people who believe they're superior end up needing to be saved by "inferior" people. It's a great analogy that just because you enjoy poetry, have a grand education or are generally smart doesn't mean you're superior.

Also the whole Troi situation in this episode was a little irritating, they made Troi act like a blushing school girl whose fallen head over hills within the first minute of meeting this guy then everytime he's mentioned she smiles like when shes speaking to Picard about him, it's like shes thinking with her heart (Or her ovaries) instead of her brain when judging from past episodes shes usually more analytical than this.
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Jammer
Fri, Sep 30, 2016, 8:39pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Things Past

I'm not sure why I remember it this way, and I could be wrong, but I believe Visitor had already had her baby by the time "The Darkness and the Light" was filmed, but her pregnancy was part of the plot, so they carried it through.
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Outsider65
Fri, Sep 30, 2016, 8:19pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek: The Motion Picture

@ohx over two years later, long after you've long and gone, I came, I saw, and I laughed much too much at your assessment of things. "Spock flying into a giant butthole" indeed. The resemblance was not lost on me in my first viewing of this movie, and your hysterical description of events has only served to make sure I will always see it as such each subsequent viewing, probably to the confusion and annoyance of fellow watchers. I thank you for this, wherever you are now.

This movie seemed in love with its own special effects, and I found myself waiting for it to stop showing me what I'm sure were awe-inspiring and moving visuals. The focus on Ilia and Decker seemed pointless, I found that I couldn't bring myself to care about two new characters that didn't integrate with the old cast and took screen time away from them.

Killing off Sonak after only giving him one line was extremely disappointing to me, especially in a chillingly horrific transporter accident. I was looking forward to seeing the portrayal of a normal Vulcan Starfleet officer (Spock clearly had issues and wasn't really a good representation) and to seeing the rest of the crew's reaction to Kirk's preference for Vulcans in the top science spot and an exploration of what that said about Kirk and his longing to see Spock again, as well as Spock's own reaction to being obviously missed and replaced, but sadly that was never to be.

Kirk seemed oddly untroubled by Spock coming back out of the blue and resuming his post while ignoring his friends and clearly having his own agenda. McCoy comments on this but Kirk is just glad to have another familiar face around and doesn't mind that Spock could easily be replaced by a robot and no one would know the difference, and this whole arc is quickly guillotined with a round trip through a giant space sphincter and some brief hand-holding apparently reconciling Spock to his friends and convincing them he won't betray them.

V'ger was immediately obviously Voyager. There wasn't any surprise, from the first time I heard the name I knew this was a movie-length rehash of "The Changling" except this time we were supposed to be glad that the murdering space junk moved on to a higher plane of existence instead of blowing up. And Decker loving it even though it killed his girl and stole her form... Hmm.

All in all, not necessarily a bad movie, but I feel like I would have enjoyed it more had it not been Trek, or if I hadn't watched TOS and this was my first outing with the franchise.
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William B
Fri, Sep 30, 2016, 5:35pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Things Past

There are certainly advantages to the way the episode played out, but I do think that having Odo have to deal with Kira seeing the truth (rather than her finding out about it afterward) probably would have made a kickass episode. However, I suspect that the primary reason Kira couldn't be included is pragmatic -- I think that Kira may have been excluded so as to lighten Nana Visitor's load during her pregnancy. One could say that the amount of material in The Darkness and the Light coming up suggests that they weren't really trying to do that, but I think that episode is an exception -- like they decided that if they were going to have Kira in much of an episode late in NV's pregnancy, they would make it count (and also make it a story which has to happen while Kira is pregnant).
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Moegreen
Fri, Sep 30, 2016, 5:18pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: Things Past

I'm interested in the decision the writers took not to have Kira as part of the regression group. In a way it would have made Odo even more uncomfortable and vulnerable. Maybe it was so that the last scene could play out between the two of them as a reversal to Necessary Evil in the same muted manner.
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Seth
Fri, Sep 30, 2016, 2:43pm (UTC -5)
Re: ANDR S2: The Things We Cannot Change

Samaritan,
Sorbo personally championed Wolfe's firing, only to reverse that stance when Andromeda (and any hope for Sorbo getting an A-list career) ended.
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Peter G.
Fri, Sep 30, 2016, 11:55am (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S5: Course: Oblivion

@ John,

"Harry Kim as s sex addict"
-Reduces a passionate affair to: "sex addict". Check.

"Marriage is nothing more than the economic merger of two people."
-Defines other people's marriages for them, insisting there is no inherent value in them other than monetary. Check.

"how the fuck is a Borg drone more enlightened and less clueless than a mainstream 24th century person like Torres about the existence of open relationships and polyamory?"
-Takes a personal opinion about polyamory in the present and implies that someone in the future must hold his current opinion in order to be enlightened. Check.

Conclusion: Apparently in order to count as "futuristic" people of the future are expected to hold the personal opinion of one person in the present, and also to reject any belief that anyone has had in the past. "Progress" apparently means never sticking by any conviction from the past, and yet paradoxically means sticking by convictions of people right now who are 'already enlightened.'

Indeed.
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Flamingo Bob
Fri, Sep 30, 2016, 10:28am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: Silicon Avatar

Star Fleet's mission is to seek out new life and establish contact, not exterminate every potentially dangerous lifeform so colonization can go forward. The Klingons killed a lot of humans at first, but a way was found to cohabitate and the Federation was stronger for it.

As for the "prior communication" argument, we have no idea what Lore told the CE about humanity or what kind of impression it got regarding us with him as our sole representative. Marr's actions precluded any chance of clearing that up and, just by the way, made sure humans who encounter another CE lifeform (unlikely that there's only one) in future won't be able to communicate with it to perhaps save their lives. She will be responsible for any future deaths.
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Matt
Fri, Sep 30, 2016, 3:11am (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S3: The Empath

I'm most curious about what the doomed species that was deemed not worthy of surviving (having lost out to Gem's species) was like.
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Dan
Fri, Sep 30, 2016, 1:24am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: Ethics

I agree this is a great one. Makes really good use of the characters—the best we've seen from Crusher and Troi, and maybe Riker, all season. (There's been *a lot* of Troi lately, but not until her few scenes here did I feel like she really clicked. There's been very little Crusher, so it's refreshing to give her something this good.)

I also liked Half a Life more than the consensus—probably the last episode that had me saying "wow, this is good" (sorry, Darmok)—so I guess I've got a soft spot for ethical dilemmas involving suicide in alien cultures.
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Rikko
Thu, Sep 29, 2016, 10:53pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S1: Charlie X

Pretty cool episode, I agree with the rest of the crew :P this is a bit creepy. The guest actor was a good one this time around.

I think the ending is not a cop-out but thematically consistent with the story. Charlie was basically a (superpowered) teen playing around while his parents weren't looking. And I can't think of many other choices of an ending, either self-destruction or some way to stop him (his parents). He was beyond reasoning or redemption since he banished Rand.

The basic idea of the episode reminds me of the classic short story "It's a good life". Charlie would have ended up like the kid from that story if he wasn't stopped. And yeah, Charlie was a sympathetic character, unlike some other ones I've seen so far (the thing of "The Man Trap"). Overall, I am satisfied.

And btw, I think I am watching the episodes in production order, because this was my eight episode of TOS instead of the second.
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dave
Thu, Sep 29, 2016, 10:18pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S5: The Begotten

Shakar is a dick. OB should have knocked his lights out or something. They really do make the Chief too passive at times and writing his wife to tell Miles to get out was a disgrace. He missed the birth of his first child, Keiko should have demanded Shakar get his ass out of there if he is going to be a dickhead because Miles needs to witness this. Just stupid writing.

The realization in Odo that Mora's methods were honest and genuine was very touching, I really liked that part. It was an understanding from a son that his father meant well, after basically hating him for decades. I would have liked to have seen another follow up episode on their relationship because they could have brought in even more depth to what I feel is a great story to tell.

As for Odo getting his shapeshifting back. I do think that was necessary at some point because I really liked the season 6 opening arc where he got lost in linking and "forgot" about his job to help. (although they forgave him way too easily). However, I think this should have happened right at the end of season 5 in some other technobabble way (maybe an adult rogue changeling spy reveals himself and helps him.. who knows, you can write anything). I don't like that this baby gave it back to him after only half a season. it lessened the impact of the death of the changeling and I think that made the story less serious than it should have been.
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Jim Witte
Thu, Sep 29, 2016, 9:23pm (UTC -5)
Re: VOY S4: Scientific Method

I was just reading up on this episode on memory-alpha the description of the aliens as " brown-robed humanoid alien".. And thought of the "fish monks" in Schisms. I wonder why they *didn't* connect the two? They could have made up some Trek-nonsense about how something about how their being flung into the gamma quadrant caused a "subspace schism" (pun intended) that allowed the fish monks to locate them, and they (the monks) had been "following" them. Whatever "follow" across subspace domains.

It had taken them five years to figure out some subspace-nonsense to allow them to exist *anywhere* in our universe - not just in places they'd where managed to rip apart subspace like with the cargo bay 4. And they were invisible because.. Well, because *that's how alternate subspace domains work*! (“What are you, stupid!?")

Then, if they wanted to follow this possible arc further, they could basically turn the fish monks into an earlier version of Species 8472 (or have them *ally* themselves with 8472 - “Oh God, you mean it’s *worse*? Not *them* again!”). Maybe have them show up in the Delta Quadrant, and then follow Sisko back to DS9 and cause trouble there.

Then have one of the monks develop a conscience, fall in love with Chakotay or something, and have a trans-universe romance. Maybe have the alien be some kind of a human/fish-monk hybrid - with accelerated growth to take care of the age problems. This makes it more easier to be played by a human actress, and could take care of the “lobster hands problem”. (It also makes her an outcast among her own [half] species)

Perhaps work that into some techno-babble about her having a “cross-domain subspace phased atomic structure”, given her some greater ability to exist in our universe. Maybe the others have a time-limit or something.

You also have the possibility of a meerkat fight between Seven and whoever the alien is. Taking "star-crossed lovers" to new heights. Or whatever direction an alternate subspace domain is.
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Peter G.
Thu, Sep 29, 2016, 8:25pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S2: Second Sight

@ Troy Jollimore,

Even the producers realized too late that they had miscast the part, as he didn't play it at all how it was originally intended. It ended up simply being a failure that they regretted.
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