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OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 10:15pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek Into Darkness

"Where are you getting your numbers? The don't match BoxOfficeMojo.

www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?id=startrek.htm

Are you forgetting all the $$$ made overseas?"

I didn't "forget" them. I've ignored them (as did Matthew, by the way) since the international market is a relatively new thing. Any attempt to compare the overseas performance of a 1980's film to a 2010's film would be meaningless (and BoxOfficeMojo doesn't give the relevant data points for the first five films anyway).
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apk
Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 5:38pm (UTC -5)
Re: Independence Day: Resurgence

I didn't think this movie was even good enough to be bad. It was just boring. Which is even *worse*. It wasn't fun at all, and Other Hemsworth and the other newbies had no charisma to speak of. Goldblum was on auto-pilot (and he didn't have much to do, anyway), and Spiner's character just didn't work.

When Bill Pullman is the best actor in your movie, your movie has problems.
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Anoymius
Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 3:34pm (UTC -5)
Re: ENT S4: Kir'Shara

"Overall I enjoyed this three parter. It certainly helped the Vulcans regain their original stature from TOS. "

Oh really? They original stature from TOS? You mean like the less than diplomatic Sarek or the female betrothed to Spock who forced him and Kirk to fight to the death?
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Peter G.
Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 2:38pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S1: Balance of Terror

For Robert's challenge:

Beloved episode that I hate: Nothing satisfies this exact category but a beloved episode that I think is middling, at any rate, is "The City on the Edge of Forever." It's decent, a bit dated, and certainly has its oddities that don't quite work (such as Bones and Kirk ending up in the exact same building by coincidence). The message is classic sci-fi, but also not even as visionary as a lot of TOS episodes that take their premise in stride rather than announcing it through a proxy. One or two great scenes with Kirk and Spock but otherwise I think a lot of this was overtrumped on account of getting a name actress involved.

Most hated that I love: DS9's "Fascination." Call me crazy but I think it's a lot of fun and gave the actors a chance to goof off in a good way. A few classic moments from Sisko (when Bareil tries to hit him) and Odo (deadpan look when Lwaxana 'dances' with him), and otherwise has such a strange energy from Brook's direction that I can see how it would be off-putting for those who prefer the more standard DS9 tone. This is DS9's version of "The Naked Time/Now", I guess, but where it's about sex for everyone.
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Moegreen
Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 2:18pm (UTC -5)
Re: DS9 S4: Accession

I feel very privilaged not to have had to endure 'G'dol's' Lament at school.
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Robert
Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 1:10pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S1: Balance of Terror

I think Conspiracy gets graded on a curve. It was really decent for S1.
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Andrew
Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 12:58pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek Into Darkness

An interesting review and yet it doesn't seem to justify 3 stars ... I think the main parts of the film were Kirk, Spock, Khan and Marcus and all of them pretty much fell flat.
Kirk and Spock have flaws that don't seem to be acknowledged as flaws or things to grow from, they seem to have too little self-doubt or regret about their actions, especially the latter's rage in the climax. Kirk's trying to apprehend rather than kill Khan is indeed implied to be more of an error and Spock's "dark side" as maybe appropriate and what saved the day.
I guess the filmmakers were trying to depict Khan as calculating and manipulative but it came off a lot more as if the script was contrived and he really didn't have charisma. Marcus was indeed overplayed and underwhelming and didn't say much about the wider society or issues.
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Keiren Simmons
Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 12:44pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek Into Darkness

I can't disagree with this review more! Jammer clearly put a lot of thought into it however.... ;-)

I got tired of reading the phrase "on its own terms" in the review. Voyager worked "on its own terms" at what It set out to be, a one hour action adventure while being entertaining. However jammer doesn't rate it highly because it doesn't live upto it's potential.

Into Darkness "works on its own terms" as a blockbuster movie while being entertaining but doesn't reach anywhere near its potential unfortunately.

I think the difference we are seeing is the review now of a casual Star Trek fan compared to one who used to be invested in the franchise.

The movie itself? Dull, uninspiring and simply disappointing in my opinion :-(
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NCC-1701-Z
Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 12:16pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S1: Balance of Terror

Challenge accepted.

Most beloved episode that I hate:
Hmmm...that's a surprisingly tough one. I'd probably have to go with TNG's "Conspiracy"; a surprising number of people seem to like it, but I don't.

Most hated episode that I love:
Definitely TNG's "Genesis" for me too. I enjoyed it despite the many scientific implausibilities.
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Yanks
Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 11:33am (UTC -5)
Re: New Trek Series Coming in 2017

Hey, I wonder of the design/silhouette of the 'Discovery' is based on the IDIC symbol?
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Magnus Greel
Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 10:28am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek Into Darkness

My biggest problem with the film is the Khan reveal when he is in the holding cell. It's delivered as this shocking revelation, and it's all fan service. To the characters in that moment, it should be met with a big shrug and a "Who cares?" response.
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NCC-1701-Z
Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 10:10am (UTC -5)
Re: New Trek Series Coming in 2017

" If it is not a joint crew then I imagine the Klingon's legal team will be contacting Starfleet shortly."

Better call Saul!!
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Peter G.
Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 9:45am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan

@ Zebra,

That's what they get for ripping off that neat Abrams movie.
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Robert
Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 9:03am (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S1: Balance of Terror

"Everyone has an episode that they are in complete opposite opinion of the vast majority. "

That would make a fun chat topic. Pick the most beloved episode that you hate and the most hated episode that you love.

I'd definitely pick "Genesis" for the second category. I don't know if I hate any beloved episodes, I'll have to think about it.
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Latex Zebra
Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 6:47am (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan

Not sure why so many of Khan's crew members or his "beloved wife" had to die after the Ceti Eel get's in their head.

A simple blood transfusion from Khan and they'd all be right as rain.


Very disappointed.
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Latex Zebra
Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 6:35am (UTC -5)
Re: New Trek Series Coming in 2017

"but if you had a Klingon / Federation crew(s) on this flying eyesore as a result of the fallout from the Dominion War that'd be pretty awesome if done right."

lol

If it is not a joint crew then I imagine the Klingon's legal team will be contacting Starfleet shortly.
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Paul Allen
Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 5:24am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S7: Emergence

"I think we should follow that man, that brick may be an important clue"

She just doesn't even care any more.

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Peter G.
Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 1:51am (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S1: Balance of Terror

@ Skeptical,

I must agree about this episode; it's not just great, it's superb. The entire thing is riveting, and the tension is really there. The characters the pacing, everything, as well as meeting a new foe that seemed almost stronger than the Federation ships.

Not that much is done about the Vulcan offshoot thing, but it subtly tell us that these people are as super-intelligent and even strong as Vulcans, but that unlike Vulcans are also wild and prone to temper and deception. In other words, they're pre-Surak Vulcans who are pretty much out of control. I like that tone a lot, because it does put the spotlight on Spock regarding this, and actually even a threat contained within, since in principle if Spock and other Vulcans dropped the logic lifestyle they could have turned out just like the warlike Romulans.

Mark Lenard as well - brilliant. I give this one 4 stars outright, and it's in my top 20 list for all Trek series combined. Top 2 for TOS (along with The Enterprise Incident). I might have to think about that some more but I think it's those two.
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Peter G.
Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 1:45am (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S1: The Menagerie

@ Skeptical,

Oh, I completely agree that this is merely a good episode, which should have been great. Some aspects of it are outstanding, including Spock's hidden agenda (and even more hidden motives), as well as the completely unexpected turnaround where the Talosians, who were portrayed as antagonists, really turn into Pike's saviors in the end. It turns a straightforward episode like The Cage about monstrous aliens into a contemplative look at what those aliens really offered, and how failing to understand each other is what really caused the antagonism in the first place. A classic Trek message, if ever there was one, but not nearly as hackneyed as how such messages are delivered in later series such as Voyager (where you're hit over the head with it) or Enterprise (where it's shown in a kind of folksy, simplistic tone).

The parts that are unclear both make the episode better as a conversation piece, but also more unclear while being viewed.

To reiterate one thing William either said or alluded to, I don't think Pike *would* have changed his mind unless he was put in an extraordinary circumstance such as Spock put him in. Spock took a huge chance that he actually would, since if he didn't the whole trip was for nothing. He was banking on Pike having to revisit his memories and dealing with aspects of them he likely came out of with anger rather than clear-minded understanding. His takeaway from the event was that it was a bad, dangerous place, and nothing other than reviewing the events could change that. Perhaps it also took reviewing them with Spock, who was also there at the time (his #2), and who might have elicited Pike's sympathies since he had already gotten himself into serious trouble just to try to give Pike a gift.

There may be a side point to be made in Pike choosing to go back with the Talosians, which is what he had felt fed up, restless with his life, with Starfleet. Maybe the constant fighting, the antagonism, wasn't for him. After all, unless I'm mistaken, Pike came from a time during or just after the major Klingon-Federation war. I can see how yet another torturous experience with hostile aliens could give him some serious reservations about thinking that exploring is all so much fun anymore. But by going back to them he could do the one thing he probably always did want to do, which was to get to know new life forms in peace and engage in friendly exchange of knowledge. Heck, maybe he could even help them with their shattered world finally.
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Ivanov
Mon, Jul 25, 2016, 1:02am (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S5: The Outcast

The first time I watched this 2 years ago I actually didn't realize that this was a homosexual allegory until Sorens big speech. I thought this would just be an episode on an androgenus species and their wacky encounters with the enterprise crew. Amazingly this 24 year old episode has much better acting and plot than the Enterprise episode "Stigma" which dealt with a similar issue and also did its best to avoid mentioning that gays exist while also making as many awkward allusions to it as possible. 3 stars
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Dougie
Sun, Jul 24, 2016, 9:49pm (UTC -5)
Re: TNG S7: Lower Decks

I'd rather they do an episode about the ship's lavatories, who cleans them and fills the soap containers, and the cabin cleaning staff than this dreck.
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Skeptical
Sun, Jul 24, 2016, 9:46pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S1: Balance of Terror

Everyone has an episode that they are in complete opposite opinion of the vast majority. Apparently, for Jammer, it's Balance of Terror. Seriously, this is one of the best TOS episodes there is, and certainly the best so far in the series.

Part of it is that this is the first time we see an alien species on par with The Enterprise. Sure, there were the all powerful Talosians and Bartok, also the all powerful, but this is the first real ship to ship battle. This is the first peer to peer battle, not humans justifying themselves against someone more powerful. So it expands the scope of the Trek universe, and does so admirably. We now know what the Enterprise is capable of against an equal crew, and we see how Kirk and company react. Sure, by the time we get to Voyager, this is just standard background stuff they throw in every episode, but for now it feels very fresh.

Part of it is, of course, the performance of Mark Lenard and the Romulan presence. They could have remained enigmas, they could have just been generic villains. But instead, we spent a fair amount of time with them, getting to see different personalities. Sure, they were fairly standard - the eager and blind patriot lieutenant, the aged yet wisened adviser, and the thoughtful, philosophical captain - but Lenard's performance was masterful. He helped to clarify the episode and give depth to the Romulan empire. Watching him doing his duty even when he knew it was wrong, swearing loyalty to leaders he didn't believe in, was immensely satisfying. Even though the morality of the Romulans may be different, you can tell that these are a thoughtful, intellectual people.

As an aside, I'm curious as to the reason why they are a Vulcan offshoot. Trek never did do too much with that relationship (except perhaps the Unification story), and it doesn't add too much to the Romulan people. It seems to exist only as a reason to get Stiles even more riled up against Spock. On the other hand, perhaps it's also there to immediately show that these people are a force to be reckoned with. By now, we know Spock is very intelligent and highly analytical, so presumably it's an immediate hint that the Romulans will be similar.

Meanwhile, I like that there is more going on than just the battle. We see how it affects everyone. We see Stiles still burning with anger. We see Martine struggling with the loss of her fiancee. We see Kirk having to work his hardest to come up with the proper strategies. And we see Spock having virtually no reaction to discovering the Romulans. It focuses the episode rightly on the characters (on both ships), rather than the technical details of the battle itself.

Not that the battle itself was bad, far from it! There was a ton of tension there, particularly when the Romulans fired their weapon on the Enterprise. I like that the two ships were evenly matched, but with different advantages for each. Made the battle more of a battle of wits than just a slug fest. Yes, it was blatantly taken from submarine battles, and that got a bit silly at times (especially the "everyone must be quiet" part), but I think the tension was still there. It's very reminiscent of Wrath of Khan's final battle as well. And really, the mental battle between Kirk and the Romulan matched up fairly well to that between Kirk and Khan, even if the characters have an actual history in the movie.

Enh, I don't have too much more to say. It's just a great episode, y'know?
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Skeptical
Sun, Jul 24, 2016, 9:45pm (UTC -5)
Re: TOS S1: The Menagerie

For what it's worth, I was also under the impression that Vina was had more physical deformities than just being ugly, what with the comment about coming back wrong. I assumed she had severe deformities and possibly was even in constant pain. If so, then it isn't just vanity that keeps her with the Talosians, and would fit with this episode's theme that living a fantasy life is ok when you're disabled.

As for the rest of the conversation, I suppose it does make some sense that the Talosians contacted Spock somehow and offered their assistance when they heard about Pike's accident. Perhaps they do feel something for him and have some affection after he demonstrated his abilities by breaking free of their illusions. Maybe they can offer him more now. And I like William's theory that the purpose of the court martial was to get Pike to relive those experiences. But given how antagonistic Pike was during the original visit to Talos, why would they think that would change his mind? What was the reason for changing his mind?

Also, how do they get a hold of Spock? Why him instead of Majel Barret? How can they project their thoughts across dozens of light years?

I think these (and others) are all interesting questions, and I think exploring both Pike and Spock in the second half of this episode would have been great. So I stand by my statement that the framing story falters in the second half. William and Peter bring up interesting points that they could have explored, but didn't. It's why I feel this is just a good episode rather than a potentially incredible one.
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Yanks
Sun, Jul 24, 2016, 6:19pm (UTC -5)
Re: Star Trek Into Darkness

@ OmicronThetaDeltaPhi
Sat, Jul 23, 2016, 3:18pm (UTC -5)

Where are you getting your numbers? The don't match BoxOfficeMojo.

www.boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?id=startrek.htm

Are you forgetting all the $$$ made overseas?
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Del_Duio
Sun, Jul 24, 2016, 6:11pm (UTC -5)
Re: New Trek Series Coming in 2017

@ NCC-1701-Z:

I think Fuller publically debunked the rumor that this was going to be set between ST6 and TNG the same time he said this wasn't going to be an anthology series.

What if this somehow WAS set after DS9 and VOY? I don't know how, but if you had a Klingon / Federation crew(s) on this flying eyesore as a result of the fallout from the Dominion War that'd be pretty awesome if done right.
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