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DLPB
Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 11:44pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S7: Extreme Measures

Let me put the final dagger into this episode. Julian Bashir, our stupid leftist "hero", has decided that losing the war is a risk worth taking in order to save the life of his friend Odo. He makes a grandiose speech declaring that Section 31, and their tactics, are abhorrent to the ideals of the Federation. There is no alternate viewpoint from a neutral source; Miles O'Brien simply agrees on the spot.

Julian then proceeds to enact his master plan for saving Odo... violating the rights, and deliberately risking the life, of another individual (Sloan). So, let's recap what the writers want us to swallow:

1. One individual's life is paramount and is worth any number of other lives—even the annihilation of one's own race via a genocidal enemy. The ends (using a virus to kill the genocidal enemy) do not, and can never, justify the means.
2. One individual is expendable if it means saving a friend.

Those are two completely opposite beliefs. The doctor is willing to kill one person to save one person, but not willing to allow the death of one person to save entire races.

This episode is demented.
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Lt. Yarko
Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 10:57pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S6: Frame of Mind

I am surprised at all the dislike for this episode. I guess some people just really need a solid plot. To me, dreams can be just as fun! I thoroughly enjoyed the ride. 😀

As for Frakes acting, yeah it got a bit hammy, and there were some weaker moments (why any writer ever writes a character to tell "No!" Is beyond me), but he reminded me a lot of shatner and that was kind of fun!
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Dave
Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 10:41pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S7: Lineage

Kim has his own quarters? I thought TNG established that ensigns had to have roommates.
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Kevin
Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 9:39pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S7: Eye of the Beholder

Yes -- everything was a hallucination. The only "real" event was that Troi and Worf entered the chamber, and Troi walked up to the open door for 20 seconds. The rest was all part of the psychic imprint.
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DLPB
Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 9:19pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S7: The Changing Face of Evil

Ken, I'll be the first to say I am completely opposite Elliot politically and this has led to a few feuds, but I don't think he's wrong in his observations here at all. Just because he disagrees with you - or has critical views of a show you love - does not a troll make. Not even close.

Dan
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DLPB
Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 8:51pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S7: Afterimage

The character of Ezri was poor. Why didn't the writers learn their lesson regarding ship "counsellors" from TNG? She's less convincing as a counsellor than Troi was—and that's saying something. As someone else (above) pointed out, the biggest issue here is that the writers are introducing a new character in the final season of a seven season show. An galactic war is coming to an end. All characters we've known since Season 1 have to be done justice too. It's a total lame-brained idea to then start writing in a new character. I think they did it because they ran out of ideas and wrote themselves into a corner. Even the war itself fell apart—the silly Dukat Fire Monster storyline being the absolute pits.

The writers were running the clock down at this point, totally out of ideas. They also introduced the Breen to waste even more time.

Saying that, some people are calling Nicole de Boe a bad actress. She is not. Have a look at her in one of the best sci-fi episodes of all time, Quality of Mercy, from the new series of The Outer Limits. It really is Troi Syndrome all over again. A bad character, shoe-horned in with a silly dead-end job role, scripted poorly. I mean, why would DS9 need a counsellor now? Why? No-one has been missing a counsellor in any of the other episodes. Sisko explains she will now be responsible for everyone's well-being. So, until now, Starfleet saw fit to leave an entire station in the jaws of mental disorder? Bollocks. The whole "OH NO! MY CLAUSTROPHOBIA IS WORSE THAN EVERRRRR!" melodrama from Garak was simply thrown into the mix to justify her existence. It also made Garak look stupid.

I don't think any of us could have made Ezri a better character. This is all on the writers.
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Ferdinand Cesarano
Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 8:47pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S2: Resistance

"as so" --> "and so"
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Ferdinand Cesarano
Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 8:45pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S2: Resistance

If the man in the blue vest was wearing military boots as so was a trap, does this mean that Neelix's contact double-crossed Janeway?

Or, does the fact that the blue-vest guy was so late indicate that he was an imposter, which would further imply that he incapacitated/killed the real contact and took his vest?
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Skeptical
Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 8:14pm (UTC -6)
Re: TOS S2: Obsession

Bones and Spock confronting Kirk over his obsession was probably my favorite scene in this episode. The easy way out would be for the writers to make an appeal of friendship, to have Bones and Spock acquiesce to Kirk despite thinking he's in the wrong. It would be for Kirk to make a plea that this is something he has to do, something to ease his soul, and for the other two to think about what's best for Kirk instead of what's best for the ship. Instead, the scene and the dialogue has everyone behaving professionally and competently. Bones goes to Kirk first as a friend, but when he doesn't get quick reassurances of his doubts, he instead moves to a formal questioning. His line of questioning is perfectly reasonable given the behavior that Kirk had been showing. And yet... Kirk responds just as professionally. He lays out a case for why he is pursuing the creature. And even though that case has a lot of assumptions built in, Spock agrees that his logic is sound if those assumptions are correct. And since it is difficult to question the captain's gut instinct, Bones and Spock are forced to go along with Kirk's argument. But Bones isn't 100% convinced, and is willing to keep Kirk's demeanor an open question. If Kirk continues to seek out the monster when and if the assumptions are proven incorrect, he makes it clear he will act accordingly. And, naturally, when the assumptions prove more true than false, Spock is more than ready to follow Kirk's approach.

Also, one thing that works for this episode was that it wasn't a simple revenge tale. Kirk's motive was redemption, not revenge. He feels he screwed up all those years ago, and this was his way to atone for that mistake. And perhaps the episode is saying that the drive for redemption is even more powerful than anger, and can be just as destructive. But while Kirk's need for redemption is nearly complete, he still has the presence of mind that he could be too emotional, he could be making a mistake. And yet, again, there's enough probable deniability that Kirk is doing the right thing that he continues... but we never really know just how clear-headed he is or if he really is obsessed. It's that nice bit of uncertainty that helps move the episode along.

Well, that being said, I think the episode does suffer somewhat coming after Doomsday Machine, which I agree with William B was a better episode with very similar themes. The overall feel of this episode was ok, but there were a few minor points that bugged me. People kept name-dropping the word obsession way too much. The subplot with the ex-captain's kid didn't really go anywhere and didn't add too much to the story. The cliche that the Enterprise had to rendezvous with someone to give away critical medical supplies is a bit annoying as well. And, once again, Spock's Vulcanness ends up saving the day, or at least saving him (and what's with Spock trying to keep a cloud from coming through the vent by covering it with his hands?). Minor issues, yes, but well, it's enough to keep it from being a true classic. Still a good one though.
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Peter
Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 7:38pm (UTC -6)
Re: ENT S2: The Seventh

I liked this episode a lot. I did not have a problem with the idea of T'Pol not using the stun setting because I figured it was accidental on her part and hence her guilt.

My chief complaint was the revelation at the end about Menos. I think it would have made for a stronger episode if he had been innocent -- or at least reformed. It felt like the writers were afraid to commit to the idea of Vulcan security being wrong, even though they wanted to go there. 3 stars from me on this one, overall.
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Rahul
Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 3:52pm (UTC -6)
Re: TOS S1: Mudd's Women

The weakest of TOS episodes to date (chronological order of Season 1 airing). Not a good portrayal of women -- certainly not ahead of it's time. A couple of good things about the episode is Carmel's acting of the criminal Mudd and Kirk's acting (it's good when he blows up at Scotty and then has to apologize).
I guess the episode isn't entirely useless if it makes the point that beauty comes from within and you don't need to take a drug to feel beautiful (or whatever the point is).
But one of the things that I will always say drags down an episode is when it portrays the crew as being unprofessional (being completely mesmerized by woman). And what about the loose end of one of the women tripping up McCoy's medical scanner?
"The Way to Eden" adopts a similar plot and is a worse episode.
For me, 1.5/4 stars -- as I say, the worst of Season 1 so far.
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Robert
Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 2:14pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: The Darkness and the Light

"He was too good an assassin for her to expect to successfully avoid his attempt(s). Going after him was by far the safer course, all things being equal, although the only thing I'll say is it would have been good to bring backup. "

Makes a certain amount of sense. I think O'Brien at the least, deserved the right to go with her (and his son).
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Peter G.
Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 2:11pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: The Darkness and the Light

I love Kira as a character, and the episode never offended me as it apparently does some. It's not my favorite ever, but I did relish the return of Furel and Lupaza, who are think are so strong that they lend real substance to Kira's past.

Regarding Kira putting the baby in danger, I do think there's reason to believe that if she had stayed put she'd have been very likely killed. He was too good an assassin for her to expect to successfully avoid his attempt(s). Going after him was by far the safer course, all things being equal, although the only thing I'll say is it would have been good to bring backup. For going alone I'll say she was reckless, but it's also possible she wanted to minimize risk to others. Who knows, maybe he'd have blown up his own home with everyone present if given a chance.

My least favorite part of this episode is the actual theme of the darkness and the light; by this time in the series it's a well-worn concept for Kira and merely retreads on old territory. It's certainly a regression in terms of where we expected Kira to go next in her life. There's nothing here that "Duet" didn't say better.
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Sean
Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 1:34pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S6: Pathfinder

Sidenote:
Why does Admiral Paris have a photo of Nicolas Lacarno on his desk? I know I'm a TNG fan, but still it seems wierd that they would use a stock photo from The First Duty.
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Sean
Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 12:54pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S6: Pathfinder

As much fun as I had seeing Troi and Barclay in a Voyager episode, did anyone else get the feeling that these guys are not the Barclay and Troi from the TNG show? They just don't sound the same to me for some reason. But, maybe that's just me.
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Robert
Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 12:47pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: The Darkness and the Light

To steer the ship back to the right place though... those of you who don't love this episode... are you generally Kira fans like me that didn't like the dark light (pun intended) that this episode painted her in? Or do you generally not care for her?
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Robert
Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 12:42pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: The Darkness and the Light

@Jammer - Apologies!

But since I got the last word in before teacher yelled at us I win the argument right? :P

I will promptly check out your parody blog post which I apparently missed somehow!
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Jammer
Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 12:39pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: The Darkness and the Light

So this is where I ask that everyone keep it on topic and not turn this thread into an argument on Trump and politics. There is more than enough of that elsewhere. We don't need it here too.

If you do feel the need to discuss it with the other members of this community, take it over to my Trump parody blog post where it at least will be somewhat on topic and won't pollute the overall comment stream.

Thanks.
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Robert
Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 12:28pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: The Darkness and the Light

@Yanks - One problem with the whole "proof" thing is that where one person sees racism, another may not.

I may say his history of fighting integration in rentals shows racism, you may say he was trying to appease his racist white tenants. You know what I mean? That said, there is other evidence.

You may think O'Donnell was lying in his 1991 book with quotes like “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys wearing yarmulkes… Those are the only kind of people I want counting my money. Nobody else…Besides that, I tell you something else. I think that’s guy’s lazy. And it’s probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks.” It's in the book. I obviously don't have any audio clip to accompany it, but I have no reason to assume it's a lie. And in 1997 he was interviewed for Playboy by author Mark Bowden and he confirmed that the O’Donnell book was “probably true.” But Trump admitting to things the rest of us think is offensive is not unusual either. He's a reality TV character, not a person.

I personally consider his crusade against the legitimacy of the first black President to be racist. Your mileage may vary. I feel his quotes about Judge Curiel being unable to properly judge a case against him because he's Mexican to be racist. YMMV. Even a large percentage of Republican politicians believe the pussy grabbing quote to be indefensible sexism. I hope your mileage does not vary.

"He doesn't have a birth certificate, or if he does, there's something on that certificate that is very bad for him. Now, somebody told me -- and I have no idea if this is bad for him or not, but perhaps it would be -- that where it says 'religion,' it might have 'Muslim.' And if you're a Muslim, you don't change your religion, by the way"

The most horrible thing he could imagine the President hiding on his birth certificate is that he's a Muslim? Really?

Then there's stuff like saying in 2000 “Well, you’ve got David Duke just joined — a bigot, a racist, a problem. I mean, this is not exactly the people you want in your party.” and then in 2015 when asked to repudiate him “Sure, I would do that, if it made you feel better. I don’t know anything about him. Somebody told me yesterday, whoever he is, he did endorse me. Actually I don’t think it was an endorsement. He said I was absolutely the best of all of the candidates.”

Which I almost find worse in some ways because he was playing stupid in an attempt to let the thing blow over so that he could hopefully not have to repudiate the KKK because he wanted their racist votes. (please note I'm not comparing Trump's views to the KKK... only that he was slow to denounce Duke because it was less important to him than the votes).

I think it was racist when he tweeted "#JebBush has to like the Mexican Illegals because of his wife." YMMV (but I hope not)

I could keep going (for a long while actually... I've barely even touched anti-Muslim sentiment, how he has difficulty dismissing a woman's opinions without referencing her appearance/gender or the episode where he may or may not have raped his ex wife in her own words (which admittedly is maybe not sexist and just violent? I'm not sure).

And are the quotes about his daughter's appearance sexist or creepy?

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Yanks
Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 12:04pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: The Darkness and the Light

Provide proof Robert. ... and careful, not what some leftist print, what he's said.
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Robert
Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 11:43am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: The Darkness and the Light

@Yanks - "It's amazing that he was none of this before he ran against Hillary.... all while being in the public eye for over 30 years. "

The amount of racist and/or sexist things Trump said in the last 30 years could fill a book. Did you think that we all thought the guy who's catch-phrase is "you're fired" was a saint? We just cared less when he was a cut-throat businessman than when he was leading the free world.

@Jason - Well at least there are 2 of us!
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Jason R.
Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 10:48am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: The Darkness and the Light

Robert I have never in my life simultaneously loathed a politician and his critics with equal intensity. I feel like a political orphan. I want somebody to put Trump, Meryl Streep and all of the talking heads on CNN on a rocket ship and blast the lot of them into the sun.

I feel like the world has moved on and left me behind - and I'm only 36.
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Yanks
Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 10:45am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: The Darkness and the Light

"Trump IS an evil sexist, racist, hotheaded awful bigot who we should all be collectively ashamed of."

It's amazing that he was none of this before he ran against Hillary.... all while being in the public eye for over 30 years.
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Ivanov
Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 10:32am (UTC -6)
Re: Star Trek: Discovery

@General Snacker Trust me Sisko and Worf from DS9 are tough bastards. Voyager and Enterprise though.... I agree with you on that.
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Robert
Tue, Jan 17, 2017, 8:58am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: The Darkness and the Light

This is fascinating....

I think that DLPB is right (minus the email stuff). Not everyone who voted for Trump is a misogynist, Hillary's focus of making the election about "why Trump is bad" instead of "why I am good" obviously failed, and in general this episode was written in a way that made Kira look terrible (although I wouldn't have put it how he did). This one always rubs me the wrong way, especially given she's pregnant with someone else's kid. And I say this in part because Kira is my favorite character.

That said... I can't post all that without qualifying it with Trump IS an evil sexist, racist, hotheaded awful bigot who we should all be collectively ashamed of. But that doesn't change the fact that it clearly fell short of being a good argument for electing Clinton.
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