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- Mon, Mar 2, 2015, 12:56am (USA Central)
A great season end. This is my second time seeing this episode and it was really good. I was also surprised at Sisko's despondency over the self-destruct countdown, not a normal Sisko moment. Regardless, it didn't take away from the show. I am with the rest of you, why was Kira on the ship? Maybe I am being nitpicky, but they should have locked the blue-guy in his quarters or the brig. He was too scared, he disobeyed his captain after he totally panicked and accused Kira of being a shapeshifter. I think he was so scared he was seeing things.
- Sun, Mar 1, 2015, 11:44pm (USA Central)
The Quality of Life
I still wonder why people dislike this episode so much. They can never really give me a good reason, they just seem to latch onto things they dislike, without ever thinking about the story that it's trying to present.
I never got any impression that this was a cheap attempt to repeat Measure of a Man, but rather that it was simply another big step in Data's character progression. I never found the Exocomps utterly unbelievable, as they showed signs of actual intelligence beyond that of mere farm animals, and the entire point of the series is "to seek out new life", so of course it becomes grey whether three unique creatures are worth the lives of Picard and Geordi, despite how much we personally like them. Every argument against this episode seems to be judging it harshly for the wrong reasons, rather than what the story was really about - Data.
So frankly I'm baffled at the lengths to which people go to rationalize their dislike of this episode. It's imperfect, but every Trek episode is imperfect. Boring? I'd hate to see what excites you if actual science fiction isn't exciting enough for you. Was Darmok too tedious? Or Measure of a Man too slow and contrived? Bizarre rationalizations abound.
- Sun, Mar 1, 2015, 11:24pm (USA Central)
Move Along Home
I'm one of the rare few who didn't hate this episode. I don't really think it deserves all the vitriol it gets, but of course in comparison to season 4 and onwards, it does get short-shrifted. Still, like one of the previois posters mentioned, it's meant to be a silly episode, and we're not supposed to be taking it seriously.
Someone also mentioned that it was like VOY's 'The Thaw'. In this case, I think VOY executed it much better. Of course, that might have been because in VOY, there was a very real danger of actually dying, but I think VOY nailed the suspenseful, eerie atmosphere much better than 'Move Along Home' did. Then again, clowns are always creepy, but instead we get the Wadi with their Legolas hairstyles here.
Dave in NC
- Sun, Mar 1, 2015, 11:10pm (USA Central)
The Nth Degree
What precisely did I say in my post that isn't factual? I await your answer with bated breath.
- Sun, Mar 1, 2015, 11:02pm (USA Central)
Tacking into the Wind
Rusot makes it racial. A *Bajoran* is inferior to and worth less than a Cardassian, in his eyes. It's a sentiment Rusot has lived by. It's a sentiment Dukat and Damar have lived by (though Damar is starting to open his eyes to a different perspective).
I'm not entirely sure that Damar started out being racist towards Bajorans, since he was extremely polite and even friendly to both the half-Bajoran Ziyal and Kira when he first met them, on the Groumall in 'Return to Grace.' He banters amicably with Kira about the condition of the Klingon ship, and takes all her orders on board. Can you imagine how Rusot would reacted if Kira had tried ordering him around the bridge or finishing his sentences?
Also, Ziyal mentions that the reason she's on the Groumall with her father is because she was ostracized on Cardassia: 'There were some Cardassians who could see past the Bajoran ridges on my nose, but not many.' Given how quickly Damar volunteered to help her in the engineering room, and how he showed her the 'knife trick', I think it's acceptable to say he was one of the people who 'saw through her nose ridges.' I can't ascribe that to a desire to please Dukat, since he doesn't come across as the type to suck up.
In any case, his later enmity to both Kira and Ziyal in 'Favour the Bold' is in direct contradiction to the happenings in 'Return to Grace.' One can only surmise that, during his and Dukat's yearlong guerrilla stint against the Klingons, Dukat must have completely brainwashed him into an 'Idolise Dukat' mode, hence his change.
- Sun, Mar 1, 2015, 10:20pm (USA Central)
What You Leave Behind
(PS - Sorry for not separating the paragraphs above, I'd written it on Word and copied and pasted. Hope no one's eyes are imploding.)
- Sun, Mar 1, 2015, 10:19pm (USA Central)
What You Leave Behind
@NCC-1701-Z: I completely agree. Considering how they built up his character and drew us into his story arc, if they'd gone with their 'original' script it would have been even worse, considering how unsatisfied most people are with the final product.
@Josh: The comparison with Boromir made me laugh, and I agree that we don't want anything that dramatic - especially given the fact that Damar isn't supposed to be a person who gives grandiose, moving speeches. A scene where Kira or Garak acknowledge his death after the war might have been nice, though, since by the happenings of the last episode the three of them had grown to be somewhat fond of each other. Kira leaning upon Garak's chest and laughingly suggesting they knock on the door to Dominion headquarters really wasn't something I'd expected to see.
@Dreamer: I read another interview with Avery Brooks (can't find the link again, sorry) and he mentioned that he too was displeased at how his and Jake's relationship was unresolved. Apparently the writers hadn't even planned the final scene with Kasidy, but Brooks felt that the connotations of a married man leaving behind his widow and unborn child were unacceptable, which is why the writers eventually went with the King Arthur "I will be back in your hour of greatest need" ending.
I love how this board is still going strong and inspiring such stimulating discussion, sixteen years after the series ended.
- Sun, Mar 1, 2015, 8:00pm (USA Central)
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
This movie just gained an extra shot of emotional resonance with Nimoy's passing...
- Sun, Mar 1, 2015, 1:15pm (USA Central)
Star Trek: The Motion Picture
I just watched this on Netflix for the first time since watching it at the movies when it first came out. I am going to watch all the movies in sequence as my personal homage to Leonard Nimoy. It surprises me how affected I am by his death. Anyway, I remember disliking this movie for all the same negative reasons stated on the many posts above. Watching it yesterday, I could not believe how much I loved it.The one thing I truly disliked were the sleazy, stretch pajama-like uniforms. So drab and ugly. But setting that aside, i was awed and surprised by how good this movie is. The wonder of the universe, the profound visuals, the uplifting, evocative score. I had truly forgotten the plot, and it was like seeing it for the first time, only through much more mature eyes. Decker and Ilia were not particularly engaging characters through the bulk of the film, but they redeemed themselves in the ending. There is room in the Star Trek universe for different kinds of films and TV shows. This movie will go down in history as a classic, I think. Slow? Yes. But so what? It redeems itself in other ways.
- Sun, Mar 1, 2015, 10:36am (USA Central)
Redemption, Part II
Data: "Perhaps she should try a different job."
In all seriousness though, I enjoy Crosby as Sela. In my opinion, she's better off playing an impatient, overconfident alien jerk than she is playing a human with complicated, conflicting emotions (Yesterday's Enterprise). Her whining about Vulcans in Unification2 is one of my favorite scenes in the series. 'Funny because it's sort of true', works for me because of Crosby's delivery as much as because of the writing.
- Sun, Mar 1, 2015, 10:02am (USA Central)
Redemption, Part II
Sela... the "I really screwed up pursuing a movie career, can I have a job?" character.
I didn't enjoy her as Tasha and everything about "Sela" was blah, blah.
- Sun, Mar 1, 2015, 5:54am (USA Central)
Man of the People
Which episode was this again? Ah, the one with Troi's cleavage!
- Sat, Feb 28, 2015, 8:24pm (USA Central)
The Nth Degree
I was responding to someone calling him a right wing nut job. Of course, I've also responded to you for doing roughly the same elsewhere on Jammer. You need to stop lying and start living in the real world.
- Sat, Feb 28, 2015, 7:55pm (USA Central)
This is truly the worst Star Trek episode ever. I have never watched this one in its entirety, it was horrible.
- Sat, Feb 28, 2015, 7:27pm (USA Central)
No Icarus32Soar, a good actor, weak character.
- Sat, Feb 28, 2015, 6:35pm (USA Central)
Agree with most of the other posters here - this felt like a real "sci-fi" episode of Trek with reasonable special effects, good acting, excellent use of music and light and a totally believable story line that touched all the logical responses that you would have expected in a situation like this. From the attempts to destroy it, contain it, do the medical research on it, ask other people about it and try to communicate with it, all woven nicely with the characters and their roles in the crew. Something like this could have been really boring and predicatble but some of the scenes such as the Phlox/Read scene and the T'Pol/Hoshi scenes lifted it above ordinary in my opinion.
- Sat, Feb 28, 2015, 6:27pm (USA Central)
I thought you were a bit kind on this one Jammer - after watching it, I thought of a 3rd option:
either or (3) a derivative heavy handed social commentary that sells out to superficial action by the end
The social commentary was very clunky indeed, and from the moment when Archer basically say "screw it - lets interfere despite our lessons apparently not learned in Dear Doctor." the show lost me. The resolution was also cliched, superficial and stock material that has been done a million times before by just about everyone including various Trek episodes.
- Sat, Feb 28, 2015, 6:19pm (USA Central)
I agree with some of the plotholes that previous posters mentioned - how on earth could the Klingons recognise Sisko but not Worf? Worf the Starfleet Klingon, son of Mogh, killer of Duras and instigator of the Chancellor. They would have spotted him a mile away.
That being said, O-Brien and Odo's horrible Klingon impersonations were a hoot. Odo's "You should have your eyes examined" response to Worf calling him a dung beetle had me on the floor. Sisko makes an incredibly good Klingon; he probably enjoyed having the opportunity to let his hair down, so to speak, and toss people around, something he doesn't get to do in a Starfleet uniform.
Dukat's amusement at their Klingon getup was hilarious too, especially when he said he wanted a picture, or a "holo-image." Like Jammer, I appreciated his "no-prisoners" policy when he blasted the Bird-of-Prey to smithereens - it establishes how Cardassians prefer to make a quick, clean kill, rather than sit around asking questions. We saw this side of them in 'Return to Grace' when Dukat blasted the Groumall with its new Klingon crew, as well as 'Tacking in the Wind' when Garak killed the entire bridge crew on the Breen ship. In each instance there's a non-Cardassian, Federation-affiliated character who goggles on in dismayed disbelief and asks, "Was that really necessary?" Nice touch, with DS9's trademark of making the small things work.
- Sat, Feb 28, 2015, 3:00pm (USA Central)
Having just finished watching Voyager for the first time all the way through (has it really been 14 years?), Course:Oblivion is the episode that my mind keeps coming back to visit the most. Chakotay dying while talking to Janeway, Neelix greiving at Janeway's feet after she silently passes away in her chair...
I liked this episode because this is how these crew members would act if the situation were really happening. The real Neelix would have acted the same had Janeway passed, respectfully and silently (at a loss for words).
It's haunting, every time I think of it.
- Sat, Feb 28, 2015, 2:03am (USA Central)
Return to Grace
Just finished watching most of the seventh season, and coming back from Legate Damar, who became the symbol of resistance and freedom for Cardassia to a lowly 'Course laid in sir' helmsman, is oddly satisfying. Also the foreknowledge that he's going to kill Ziyal in comparison to "I'll go and help her.. Klingon technology is odd," and Ziyal's "Damar showed me a new knife trick" is very poignant. Honestly, though, imagining him and Ziyal practising the knife wrestle till he thought she had 'mastered' it - the idea of the two of them continuously rolling around the Klingon engineering room is a bit weird but also funny. Makes you wonder what could have been..
- Sat, Feb 28, 2015, 1:43am (USA Central)
This is a pretty cool episode overall, not a bad way to wrap up the character, at least on the TNG side of him. I thought it was a pretty touching story.
"I won't say much about the time travel since I've said more than enough on it elsewhere. Star Trek has just never accepted the central truth that the very act of arriving in the past from the future contaminates the timeline. Star Trek thinks you must actively interfere in order to contaminate. Incorrect."
You sound pretty certain about the mechanics of something that is entirely fictional. Might as well be debating the central truth of the speed of Superman.
- Fri, Feb 27, 2015, 10:21pm (USA Central)
I really like this episode. Lighthearted but fun.
- Fri, Feb 27, 2015, 10:20pm (USA Central)
Redemption, Part II
I agree with SkepticalMI that Sela's appearance caused the episode to be unfairly compressed. This was probably something that was decided by higher ups, and it sucks that she basically ruined part 2 of what could have been a really great 2 parter. I never liked her when she was on the show and now she comes back from the grave to hurt the series once more.
I also agree that Worf getting kidnapped didn't add anything to the plot. And it did feel like there were way too many storylines going on at the same time. This might have worked better as a 3 part episode, but I don't think they ever did a 3 part episode.
Still enjoyable despite everything.
- Fri, Feb 27, 2015, 8:22pm (USA Central)
- Fri, Feb 27, 2015, 3:50pm (USA Central)
Tacking into the Wind
RUSOT: You're still a Cardassian, Garak. You're not going to kill one of your own people for a Bajoran woman.
GARAK: How little you understand me.
It's scenes like this that further my belief that Garak is and always was sympathetic to the Bajoran people and that his sympathy is probably what led to his exile from Cardassia in the first place.
It's not hard to imagine that Garak was given a brutal assignment against the Bajorans while a member of the Obsidian Order, and then refused to carry it out. In the S2 episode "The Wire," Garak tells a trio of lies about the reason for why he was exiled. You can't trust any of them, but all of them have some variation of him sparing a large group of Bajoran civilians.
Garak has never shown revulsion, condescension, or even restrained antipathy towards any Bajorans. He's lived on the station for years with them. He hated Dukat (the prefect of the Bajoran Occupation). For someone so formerly ruthless and cold-hearted, he has regularly shown empathy towards the Bajoran people, and been unusually candid about the distasteful atrocities committed by Cardassians during the Occupation.
Now, in the midst of the Cardassian rebellion, when he's finally getting a chance to fight for/with his people again, he sides with a Bajoran over a Cardassian.
And I think his words here are very telling. He doesn't say that he's defending Kira because he likes/knows/trusts Kira more than Rusot or because the mission requires it (the way Damar does). Rusot makes it racial. A *Bajoran* is inferior to and worth less than a Cardassian, in his eyes. It's a sentiment Rusot has lived by. It's a sentiment Dukat and Damar have lived by (though Damar is starting to open his eyes to a different perspective). But Garak doesn't hesitate or even have to think about it. "How little you understand me." He's already there. Unlike most Cardassians, Garak already sees Bajorans as equals rather than inferiors. I think he's felt that way for a long, long time, and given the common thread in his "lies" about his exile, I think his feelings towards them played a part in it.
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