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NCC-1701-Z
Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 7:46pm (UTC -6)
Re: TOS S1: What Are Little Girls Made Of?

This particular trope of Kirk convincing Ruk to destroy himself is what Jammer calls Kirk Outsmarts the Computer ;) It's a proud Trekkian tradition!
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NCC-1701-Z
Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 7:44pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S7: The Pegasus

I have a feeling that Section 31 has a few ships with cloaking devices that no one knows about... ;)

Hey, it's what I would do if I were them!

(I remember hearing that the expanded universe novels say that the Pegasus experiment was sponsored by Section 31).
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Wes
Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 7:13pm (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S7: The Pegasus

Enjoyed this episode but found the moral question of lying to Romulans pretty overshadowed by the incredible disadvantage not developing cloaking (phasing?) technology would be militarily. It doesn't seem the least bit realistic that the federation wouldn't develop this technology, or for that matter, that some of the best scientists in the alpha quadrant wouldn't already have a pretty good idea how cloaking works. Moreover, other technologies seems to be pretty commonly shared by the post-warp civilization powers.

One other thing---has anyone else noticed that most Starfleet admirals are complete idiots?
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Rahul
Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 6:33pm (UTC -6)
Re: TOS S1: What Are Little Girls Made Of?

Not a great episode although very much classic Trek in that it poses philosophical questions about androids, eliminating negative emotions, and preserving humans forever through androids -- a true sci-fi episode with a mad scientist aiming to propagate androids to create utopia.
Majel Barrett does a great job acting as Chapel here -- showing her emotions for Korby, jealousy toward Andrea, concern for Kirk.
The story isn't very strong and it has its holes. How does Kirk submit to having an android duplicate of himself made? How does he choke Korby (an adroid) such that the latter is gasping for breath. And I'm never a big fan of episodes where the solution is Kirk convincing an android to destroy itself - funny how Ruk finally realizes what the "equation" was after Kirk talks him through it.
The ending is quite anticlimactic with Korby killing himself and Andrea. Did Kirk magically convince them that they don't need to preserve themselves anymore?
For me, 2/4 stars.
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N
Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 5:55pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: The Darkness and the Light

Oh Jason, you lost me (or should have) at "The word mysoginist..." - but I'm gonna take you on anyway.

DLPB's specific dismissal of Kira as "irrational" and "could never control her emotions" (on top of "One thing could have saved this episode... Kira being killed by the assassin") is bathed in misogyny and uses the exact same tropes with which women have been delegitimized for decades/centuries - ie. They're emotional. They're irrational. Not like men. I didn't use the word misogynist because he criticized Kira's character - this is a site for criticism - but because of the way he did it and the extremity of it. Even the other commenters on this thread who disagreed with Kira's choices in this episode didn't wish her dead because of it.

As you can see, I consider my words very carefully and don't throw them around flippantly (apart from this one: gateau!) and that's why I chose the one I did. Dynamic male characters in Trek like Sisko or Kirk have made plenty of headstrong decisions in other episodes and aren't generally written off as emotional/irrational - on the contrary, they're lionized for it. Away from the darker corners of this forum, Kira is generally celebrated in much the same way. https://twitter.com/DS9Doc/status/808100294483578880
I find the specific amount of hatred Kira gets in this episode for being pregnant fascinating, and I wish more women commented on this site. When a terrified pregnant women is being targeted by a psychopathic assassin who's murdered her friends, a commenter wishing she'd been killed in the episode because 'she could never control her emotions' is pretty much the most repugnant, inhuman take on an involving and emotional hour of drama. If this had been a Garak show and he'd gone after an assassin who was closing in on him after having murdered his friends, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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Garthok
Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 5:43pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S2: Twisted

Am I the only one bugged by how the reviewer keeps referring to to the ship as "The Voyager". :P
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JohnC
Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 4:10pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S1: Time and Again

OK, so I'm 3 for 3 in liking these episodes more than Jammer or most of the commenters. I'm not typically a big special effects guy, but I was impressed with the laser-beamy things they were using to try to punch through the time gap or whatever. I also liked snippet of dialogue here, like Paris threatening the kid; and the interplay with the terrorists as they prepared to plant the bomb.

As for the plot in general - it's a bit of a remix of City of Tomorrow - how do we deal with what "our presence here" will do to affect what already happened once - but I thought the idea of having their presence be the cause of the disaster in the first place was a deft twist. But yes, three episodes, and three temporal shifts of one kind or another. Time (pun intended) to switch playbooks....
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JohnC
Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 3:56pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S1: Parallax

Thanks for the kind welcome, Robert. Very much looking forward to the journey.... :)
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NCC-1701-Z
Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 2:55pm (UTC -6)
Re: Star Trek: Discovery

And the show got delayed. Again. Are we ever going to actually get to watch this?

Seriously, I feel like no one at CBS knows what they're doing. How do you screw up something as iconic as Star Trek?
[remembers the bulk of Star Trek Enterprise and the series finale]
...Oh. Never mind.
But seriously, are Romulan spies trying to sabotage this behind the scenes? Because that's what it feels like!
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Sean
Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 2:18pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S6: Fair Haven

Authenticty? Ha. Ireland looks like a backyard studio lot at paramount to me.
As soon as they start marketing holodecks I'm getting one - that's all there is to it.
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DLPB
Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 2:10pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S7: Extreme Measures

I'm not sure how one ends up with the views that you hold- because I have a sound and logical mind.

- I have a bad cold.
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DLPB
Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 2:08pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S7: Extreme Measures

1. No leaps at all. The Founder herself states her goal is the total domination of the Alpha Quadrant and destruction of the Federation. They have already killed millions. You're straw clutching again, and you know it.

2. He violated and risked the life of someone. You're again splitting hairs. He also tortured Sloan, whatever mealy-mouth excuse you can give., That actually makes Bashir reprehensible in his own eyes, your eyes, and most people's eyes.

3. This is leftist nonsense. For someone who purportedly respects all sides of debate, and accepts so called "shades of gray" in writing, you do sure come across as very intolerant to views you disagree with.

I'd never want you in charge during war time. You're a dangerous individual, who would willing sacrifice his own race for the "greater good". Except there is no greater good from annihilation and mass death from a deadly enemy attacking for the sole reason of conquering.

I'm not sure how to get you end up with the views you do - because I have a sound and logical mind.

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Peter G.
Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 2:07pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S7: Extreme Measures

@ Robert,

While I generally agree with your treatment of the topic, the use of genocide to stop Islamic terrorism isn't a good analogy, because in that case one would be using extreme force to annihilate a foe that cannot possibly threaten the existence of the party employing the genocide. In the Trek world, had the Dominion won I'm not sure you're right about how they would have treated their victims. True, overall they prefer to act as the mafia and take their cut while leaving trade to flourish, but Wayoun straight-up says that the first thing to do after winning the war is to eradicate the population of Earth. This is only not genocide by the technicality that there are humans living elsewhere as well. Plus we heard various of how the Dominion would either wipe out populations ("Sanctuary", "Shadowplay") or else punish them so severely that it was equivalent ("The Quickening").

While I agree entirely with your comments about leftism and Trek, I'm not sure I'd be so quick to condemn Section 31's logic. When Sloan says that Bashir is a dangerous man I do find my ears perking up and wondering if he has a point. Genocide surely has to be condemned as unacceptable, however if one is simply given the choice of "millions of Founders die, or billions of Federation citizens die" I'm not sure how picking the former is such an obvious conclusion. The fact of the matter is that the war was only won because of a Section 31-esque gambit ("By the Pale Moonlight") and because the prophets were able to divert the Dominion fleet. There was no way for Section 31 to foresee either of these events. Also many lives were saved because it just so happens that Odo was able to convince the Founder to surrender. Had Odo been randomly killed prior to that event many additional lives would have been lost.

I don't know that there's an easy answer to how to do the moral calculus when billions of lives are on the line no matter what you do.
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Robert
Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 2:00pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S7: Afterimage

@DLPB - "Sisko explains she will now be responsible for everyone's well-being. So, until now, Starfleet saw fit to leave an entire station in the jaws of mental disorder? Bollocks."

And O'Brien was seeing Counselor Telnorri after his experiences in "Hard Time". And we he complained about him Julian's response implied that there were multiple other counselors on DS9.

"O'BRIEN: What for? All Telnorri ever wants to do is sit and listen to me tell stories of what it was like to be in an Argrathi prison. How often did they beat me? Was I distressed by the lack of toilet facilities? If you ask me, he's the one with the problem.

BASHIR: You can talk to a different counsellor. Someone you might like better."

Just like Troi wasn't the only counselor on ENT-D there sure as hell weren't ZERO counselors aboard DS9 in the middle of a war!! This was a very, very strange episode for some of the things it tried to imply.
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Robert
Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 1:51pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S7: Lineage

@Dave - Kim's roommate died in Caretaker. RIP :-(
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Peremensoe
Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 1:51pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S6: Sons and Daughters

Worf has obviously not been an engaged father, and that is a flaw in his personal character, but it's good *characterization*. It doesn't make him less "one of the heroes," it makes him more of a real person.

I haven't seen the ep in a while and don't recall dialogue specifics, but my impression was that the period of noncommunication was a product of Alexander's own alienation as much as Worf's distance (actual and emotional). Primary responsibility rests with the parent, of course, but I never thought Worf didn't care--he just didn't know what to do.
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Robert
Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 1:50pm (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S7: Extreme Measures

@DLPB - Lot of logic leaps there.

1. The Dominion is not typically show to be genocidal. Oppressive, ruthless murderers sure... but genocidal is a stretch.

2. Sloan killed himself. Bashir was not trying to kill Sloan. Yes, there was a risk he might damage him but risking damaging a man committing genocide to stop said genocide is probably a moral calculus that is acceptable.

But more importantly, it's an abhorrent idea that it's a leftist concept that one should be better than the evil, horrible enemy one is trying to defeat. If you have a problem with that idea Star Trek is not for you.

This is not a discussion about ends justifying the means and if we should waterboard a terrorist to extract potentially useful information. This is more like... should we release a virus that would kill everyone in the middle east to stop radical Islamic terrorism.

I shudder to think that anyone watching Star Trek could agree with Section 31. And I say this as a person who often has no problem with the gray actions taken by our heroes and often wishes they would go a drop further.
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Robert
Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 1:43pm (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S1: Parallax

@JohnC - Glad you're enjoying VOY so far. Early VOY is actually my favorite VOY. It's not as good as later VOY in a lot of ways, but what it was trying to do with the premise and the characters was more interesting than what it ended up doing. Look forward to your thoughts!

Welcome aboard!
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karatasiospa
Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 12:22pm (UTC -6)
Re: Star Trek: Discovery

So Sarek will also be in Discovery
www.facebook.com/StarTrekCBS/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED&fref=nf
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Quarkissnyder
Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 10:59am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S6: Sons and Daughters

I have only the vaguest recollection of Worf having a son on TNG. Finding out now that he not only has a son but has not communicated with him in any way for five years is a huge detriment to a character who is supposed to be one of the heroes. What's his excuse? If he hasn't communicated with Alexander, who is living with Worf's parents, then he also hasn't communicated with his parents in that time. What a jerk.

The mess hall brawl was stupid. Why would a Klingon pick a fight with someone who is smaller and weaker and untrained? What's the sport in that? That's just being a bully.

There was nothing in the B story that we haven't seen before. Kira hates Dukat, She forgets for a moment that she hates Dukat. Then she remembers that she hates Dukat.

The thing with the dress was ridiculous. If Dukat had sent her a small token, like a book, or one of his daughter's pictures framed, it might have made sense. But a dress is something you send to a lover. Kira wouldn't have been grossed out from the first second.

Also, did Garak make the dress? What did he think of doing that? Why would a dress that fit Kira also fit Dukat's daughter? Their sizes are not the same.

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JohnC
Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 10:22am (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S1: Parallax

To follow up on my comments on Caretaker, I don't expect much from this series, so I continue to be entertained. Yes, it's another "spatial anomaly" episode, but I thought the dialogue in the shuttlecraft between Janeway and Torres was sparkling, as they debated whether to choose the Voyager to port or starboard.

As for JB's comments just above, that was an entertaining read, but I'm not as down on how Torres ends up being chosen. Part of a starfleet captain's job is to know how to delegate, and sometimes feelings get hurt. I think it was pretty obvious to Janeway by the end of the first staff meeting that Torres was something special as an engineer. Janeway expressed her reservations about Torres' ability to command others and it was obviously a difficult decision for her, but I think ultimately she decided that she was going to go with her first officer's recommendation of an exceptionally talented and creative engineer with people problems over a cookie-cutter personality who doesn't think outside the box - and if there's one thing that Janeway would know is evident, it's that if you're 70,000 light years from home, you're WAY outside the box. And although it might have provided some episode fodder to have Torres work her way back into good graces and then get promoted, I think perhaps we are to infer that Janeway realizes the importance of assigning roles and duties from the outset. Just a thought.
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JohnC
Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 10:02am (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S1: Caretaker

I have a long relationship with Star Trek, with huge gaps in between. Like most kids of my generation, I watched TOS in re-runs after school. When we went outside to role-play after, we all argued over who got to be Kirk because he was a bad-ass and got all the girls, including the green alien chick.

I looked forward with keen anticipation to the original movie and, honest to Kahless, fell asleep watching it in the theater. Khan, of course, set things right. And although I enjoyed III and IV, I somehow never found my way over to TNG, or DS9, or Voyager during their original runs. I did try to watch Enterprise for awhile but with the exception of Jolene Blalock and her catsuits I didn't really care for the characters. Trip was too folksy, Archer was too earnest... it just annoyed me all the way around. I found TNG on BBC a few years ago, and then on Netflix, and over the past 2 or 3 years i've made my way through TNG twice (which I love) , DS9 (which I loved at first, then disliked immensely as it wound down) ... and now I suppose I qualify as a bit of a Trek junkie. I'm not a fanatic, and I don't science, but I've been immersed into the Trek oeuvre now and I find myself craving a dose at regular intervals. So despite the lukewarm reviews i've read about the Voyager series, I embarked on my own rewatch last night.

I was prepared to be disappointed - maybe my low expectations are part of the reason I was surprised to find Caretaker to be the most entertaining of the series' premieres. I like the cast, for the most part, especially the Doctor and Torres, although as someone noted earlier, Neelix is a bit to Jar Jar Binks-esque for my taste. But there have been other Trek characters I didn't "get" at first, like Quark, and now he's among my favorite DS9ers, so maybe Neelix will grow on me.

If I'm watching mindless television, the most important criterion is: do I want to find out what happens next? And the answer here was an emphatic yes. I can't really say the same about "Emissary", which I had to struggle through. In fact, the only thing I really remember about Emissary (except for vague recollection about Sisko traipsing around a beach with his future wife) was that Sisko was irrationally rude to Picard in blaming him for his wife's death. That's the only part of the episode that got my attention - in contrast, Caretaker really kept me moving along with the plot. Even the slow interlude in the middle with the old Kentucky Home or whatever was bizarrely intriguing, because of the stilted weirdness of the setting...

Regardless, I may yet regret deciding to start this, but for now I'm looking forward to more.
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Tanner
Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 6:39am (UTC -6)
Re: DS9 S5: Empok Nor

Why didn't the guy who Garak stabbed contact O'Brien with his communicator after he was attached? Later in the ep we see that the communicators work fine for conversation.
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Cajun
Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 6:02am (UTC -6)
Re: TNG S6: Suspicions

One thing I did find interesting about the portrayal of the Ferengi was the evolution of the Ferengi themselves. They started out as savages, as even worse Klingons essentially. Violent, misogynistic, imperialistic. They were even implied to be cannibals.

Gradually, though, they changed into space-nerds. Awkward, sniveling guys who were good at math, and science. Opportunistic but mostly peaceful. By late DS9, Quark is talking about how savage humans are, and how the Ferengi alliance recommended peaceful negotiations with the Dominion and the Federation ignored them.

This episode marks a kind of mid-point for them.
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J.B.
Wed, Jan 18, 2017, 4:31am (UTC -6)
Re: VOY S4: Waking Moments

The music isn't directly ripping off "Sacrifice of Angels." It's more that Bell's scores pretty much all sound identical because he uses the same orchestrations and the same chord progressions ad nauseam. To his credit, there are times when he's able to arrange those factors in a way that greatly benefits the episodes he scored (like DS9's "Covenant") but even so, he pretty much used up all his tricks early on. He was starting to expand his sound a bit in Enterprise (like the rest of the composers) but he left the show in season 2 before we got a chance to hear him tear lose in the Xindi arc.
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